Crikey!

[Lethkhar]

Aethiopica

No one. Only dangling and holding were mentioned. However, that is definately not dangling.
And I think moving shadows around can make things look a lot closer without too much dificulty.

He's feeding the crocodile with one hand and holding his 1-month-old infant in the other. People were there to witness it. It was careless. What if the crocodile had gone berserk like with Siegfried & Roy? Sure, he has quick reflexes, but let's face it. He was over 40 years old in that photo and both of his arms were full.  

[Sanguvixen]

Sigh....there were over a thousand people there. The child was being baptized by a group of buddist monks. And before the baby was even brought in, Steve tired the croc out and fed it.

If you were to swing the angle from the front, to the side you would see perfectly that the baby was completely safe. The man was doing exactly as his father did before him.

The media sensationalized the entire thing....I take you didn't watch the special featured on Animal Planet about this topic? It was on yesterday.

The man did nothing wrong. Nobody present had a problem with it. Isn't wasn't until that picture was taken at that odd angle, and brought to the newspapers...that anyone had a problem with it, and it was mainly the people who were not there to see the whole thing.

There were spotters everywhere. The entire staff was there. Steve was not doing anything dangerous or wrong.

There are parents out there that do worse things with thier children. What about Micheal Jackson....who dangled his baby over a small fence two stories up?

What about the countless parents who leave thier children unattended with dogs? Or the ones who set them up with irrisponsible sitters? In these situations there was no predicting what will happen. You don't know that the dog might or might not attack the baby, or the that sitter might be stoned, and bake the child in the oven. It the situation with Steve, the events were very predictable. This is a man who has worked with crocs his entire life.

Crocs are more predictable than dogs...and people. What Steve did with his kid is barely dangerous compared to what other parents have done with thier babies, and children.

As for something going wrong? There were spotters everywhere. The entire thing was completely planned. The croc was tired by the time Steve came in with the boy. That itself was a precaution. They did a regular routine feeding, which took most of the energy out of the critter.

Concerned that the baby could have snatched the kid out of steve's hands? First the croc would have needed to have the energy to do so...and the energy to be faster than Steve. Steve tired that crocodile as I have said before. Now for the croc to be able to grab the kid...it would have had to launch itself at an angle, which is only possible if it was in the water. This creature was on land.

There have been countless specials that actually show you footage of the entire event. You can see how much planning went into it. You can see by watching that footage...why the baby was not in danger. Infact there was a special on Animal Planet, concerning this topic...yesterday.

Do your damn research, and actually watch the programs that cover it...and you'll see that Steve was not being careless and the only wrong he did was apologize for something that he did not need to apologize for.

Take this from an avid Steve Irwin fan...Leckthar. I followed the whole thing from start to finish. Steve did nothing wrong in that situation.

 

[Lethkhar]

Sanguvixen

Sigh....there were over a thousand people there. The child was being baptized by a group of buddist monks. And before the baby was even brought in, Steve tired the croc out and fed it.

If you were to swing the angle from the front, to the side you would see perfectly that the baby was completely safe. The man was doing exactly as his father did before him.

Like that?

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The media sensationalized the entire thing....I take you didn't watch the special featured on Animal Planet about this topic? It was on yesterday.

Nope.

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The man did nothing wrong. Nobody present had a problem with it. Isn't wasn't until that picture was taken at that odd angle, and brought to the newspapers...that anyone had a problem with it, and it was mainly the people who were not there to see the whole thing.

There were spotters everywhere. The entire staff was there. Steve was not doing anything dangerous or wrong.

Sounds familiar...it's sort of like when he died.

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There are parents out there that do worse things with thier children. What about Micheal Jackson....who dangled his baby over a small fence two stories up?

Did I ever say that Michael Jackson was a good parent? I can't seem to find where I said that.

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What about the countless parents who leave thier children unattended with dogs?

A crocodile is not a dog.

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Or the ones who set them up with irrisponsible sitters? In these situations there was no predicting what will happen.

Still better than getting them within mere feet of a crocodile, in my opinion.

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You don't know that the dog might or might not attack the baby,

Actually, unless the dog has rabies, its actions are pretty predictable. Though I wouldn't leave a baby sitting right next to a large dog in case the dog accidently hurts it.

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or the that sitter might be stoned, and bake the child in the oven.

rofl I know it's not funny...Oh god dead baby jokes...Horrible... rofl

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It the situation with Steve, the events were very predictable. This is a man who has worked with crocs his entire life.

Just like Siegfried and Roy. 3nodding

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Crocs are more predictable than dogs...and people. What Steve did with his kid is barely dangerous compared to what other parents have done with thier babies, and children.

Comparing Steve with irresponsible parents isn't really getting you anywhere, you know.

"Oh, well it's better than trying to teach the baby how to drive!" rolleyes

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As for something going wrong? There were spotters everywhere. The entire thing was completely planned. The croc was tired by the time Steve came in with the boy. That itself was a precaution. They did a regular routine feeding, which took most of the energy out of the critter.

There are spotters everywhere in rodeos, yet people die or are injured all the time.

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Concerned that the baby could have snatched the kid out of steve's hands? First the croc would have needed to have the energy to do so...and the energy to be faster than Steve. Steve tired that crocodile as I have said before. Now for the croc to be able to grab the kid...it would have had to launch itself at an angle, which is only possible if it was in the water. This creature was on land.

I never said it would snatch the kid. That's just stupid. No way it could reach the kid.

No, I was more concerned about the possiblities of the croc attacking Irwin and Irwin dropping the kid.

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There have been countless specials that actually show you footage of the entire event. You can see how much planning went into it. You can see by watching that footage...why the baby was not in danger. Infact there was a special on Animal Planet, concerning this topic...yesterday.

Yeah, because I'm sure Animal Planet would have a completely unbiased view when defending its most popular show. rolleyes

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Do your damn research, and actually watch the programs that cover it...and you'll see that Steve was not being careless and the only wrong he did was apologize for something that he did not need to apologize for.

Take this from an avid Steve Irwin fan...Leckthar. I followed the whole thing from start to finish. Steve did nothing wrong in that situation.

...Except hold his baby next to a crocodile...Even if it was well-planned, it was a crocodile, for The Spork's sake!  

[Sanguvixen]

No one has ever died on Steve's watch, except himself, but he was in water, and that is a different story. Captive animals and wild animals are two different things.

You didn't mention Mike...I was just pointing out that there are worse things that you can do with a kid than get near a croc.

The croc was tired. Steve wasn't. The croc was fed. Steve fed him.

Steve has never had a person die on his team.

Yes...that picture is much better.

Steve can outrun any croc given enough area. The only time there is a problem is when he is in a small enclosure.

The entire staff was not there when he died of that Sting Ray.

My allusion to Micheal Jackson is an example of other stars that have been critisized for how they treat thier children.

A crocodile is not a dog. I knew a dog for around three years...and then suddenly for no reason he latched up and bit me. He didn't have rabies. I had to get stitches.

I've seen dogs in full sleep launch thier teeth at people just for reaching to grab something that they recently put down.

I know someone who was bitten badly when he put his gameboy down, went to pick it up, and a small breed dog woke out of sleep, ran at him, and latched on good and hard. I never though they would get the dog off.

Dogs are some of the most unpredictable animals I've ever seen, and observed. Crocodiles seem to be more predictable.

Those circus freaks, and the Crocodile Hunter are two different things. There is no way to run if a big cat turns on stange. If a croc decides to have a go there is warning, and time to get away. It's enclosure is less cramped.

In Rodeos there are spotters....but unlike in rodeos no human has been killed during one of Steve's demonstrations. Don't drag the incident with the ray into this...because above land, and in water are two different situations.

I've seen more than that one special. It wasn't Animal Planet even presenting it's views. It was various people who were at the event discussing thier views of the whole thing.

Yes it was a damn crocodile. A tired crocodile with an almost full belly, in a large enclosure, and with plenty of room for Steve to run, should something go wrong.

In the end you are dealing with the "What Ifs" that never happened. You can play the "What If" game and turn any situation dangerous if you stop to think about it.

Go on and play your What If "Steve was bitten" or "Dropped the baby"....many people who once held the same view as you have stepped back and realized the shouldn't have jumped on the bandwagon of "Oh! He's putting his kid in danger! He's irrisponsible!"

 

[Lethkhar]

Sanguvixen

No one has ever died on Steve's watch, except himself, but he was in water, and that is a different story. Captive animals and wild animals are two different things.

You didn't mention Mike...I was just pointing out that there are worse things that you can do with a kid than get near a croc.

The croc was tired. Steve wasn't. The croc was fed. Steve fed him.

Steve has never had a person die on his team.

I don't doubt that. The people on his team aren't picking up the snakes.

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Steve can outrun any croc given enough area. The only time there is a problem is when he is in a small enclosure.

It's not a matter of outrunning it, it's a matter of jumping back in time without hurting the baby by the sudden movement. It was only 1 month old, and he was over 40.

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The entire staff was not there when he died of that Sting Ray.

I know, but he had a few people there with him. Right next to him, in fact.

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My allusion to Micheal Jackson is an example of other stars that have been critisized for how they treat thier children.

Of course. There are people who mistreat children everywhere, and he's not nearly the worst.

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A crocodile is not a dog. I knew a dog for around three years...and then suddenly for no reason he latched up and bit me. He didn't have rabies. I had to get stitches.

How old was it, what breed was it, and what kind of temperament did it have?

That's a pretty unusual case.

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I've seen dogs in full sleep launch thier teeth at people just for reaching to grab something that they recently put down.

That's called playing. A dog will only do that to a person that's big enough to wrestle with it. A dog will never attempt to fight over something with a baby, just like it won't fight with a puppy.

Plus, it will never actually try to hurt the person it's playing with. Pack instinct.

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I know someone who was bitten badly when he put his gameboy down, went to pick it up, and a small breed dog woke out of sleep, ran at him, and latched on good and hard. I never though they would get the dog off.

rofl

Who's dog was THAT?

Personally, I'd consider a crocodile's chops to be a bit more dangerous than a poodle's, but that's just me.

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Dogs are some of the most unpredictable animals I've ever seen, and observed. Crocodiles seem to be more predictable.

Tell that to my aunt Pam. Or ANY dog trainer, for that matter.

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Those circus freaks, and the Crocodile Hunter are two different things.

They both pissed off animals for a living. I really fail to see much of a difference.

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There is no way to run if a big cat turns on stange. If a croc decides to have a go there is warning, and time to get away. It's enclosure is less cramped.

Yeah, because the crocodile hunter could pull away instantly, then break out into a sprint with his 1-month-old baby in his arm without having to worry about the baby being hurt at all. rolleyes

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In Rodeos there are spotters....but unlike in rodeos no human has been killed during one of Steve's demonstrations. Don't drag the incident with the ray into this...because above land, and in water are two different situations.

Well, there was never a baby in one of Steve's demonstrations, was there?

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I've seen more than that one special. It wasn't Animal Planet even presenting it's views. It was various people who were at the event discussing thier views of the whole thing.

And what did the people on the opposing side say?

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Yes it was a damn crocodile. A tired crocodile with an almost full belly, in a large enclosure, and with plenty of room for Steve to run, should something go wrong.

Do you know how strong a baby's neck is? Not very. Suddenly jumping back and breaking out into a sprint could be very dangerous for a child, especially if they're only a month old.

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In the end you are dealing with the "What Ifs" that never happened. You can play the "What If" game and turn any situation dangerous if you stop to think about it.

Ok, then.

Go jump off a bridge. You'll probably die, but if you DO somehow survive you can always say,"It wasn't dangerous at all! I turned out fine! Go ahead and jump off a bridge, it's perfectly safe!"

I won't.

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Go on and play your What If "Steve was bitten" or "Dropped the baby"....many people who once held the same view as you have stepped back and realized the shouldn't have jumped on the bandwagon of "Oh! He's putting his kid in danger! He's irrisponsible!"

I have yet to meet any of these people.

And no, I don't live under a rock.

And you know what? Him endangering his own child doesn't really bother me. It was the things he encouraged on his show that made me lose respect with him. It seemed like every episode I saw was either about picking up snakes, following guys with guns who were out to shoot snakes (and other things), or capturing animals and bringing them to his zoo.

Really, I suppose if his kid died that'd be one less vessel carrying his genes. Which, of course, means that there'd be one less person to encourage people to mess with animals.

You know who the Grizzly Man's hero was? You guessed it, Steve Irwin.  

[Sanguvixen]

In almost every episode he reminds his views to never do the things he does. He always emphisizes that he is a trained professional, and that the only reason he can do the things he does is because of his training.

Steve is the best professional in the world as far as I'm concerned. A lot of people bitten by snakes pick the animal up by the neck. Ever notice how he picks them up by the tail? Maybe that is why he's never been been by a Venomous Snake...ever.

He messes with animals to save them. It is unfortunate, but when you want to rescue an animal(including wild animals) you have to come in some sort of physical contact with them(most of the time, and especially with Crocs). What you might call pissing off an animal, I call restraining for capture, so that the animal can be taken to a better, safer place.

Even then...who was it that came up with the idea of the Croc box? He makes is so there is less stress on the animal....including the big ones.

If ever there was an idiot wild-life person who pissed off animals it was the berk Mark O'Shea, and his man-handling of snakes(which he often harms the snakes he handles doing so BTW). I can't stand that guy...he's way too rough.

Steve showed the world a new way to capture and release animals, while reducing the amount of stress on them. He showed people how to love animals that most people don't care to love. If you loose the Apex predator of an ecosystem...you loose the entire ecosystem.

That man did so much, and he did not encourage people to go up and touch/handle animals in the wild. It was quite the opposite, he discouraged people from doing so. He spread the idea of Conserve wildlife, and to simply observe it.

What those "Lion and Tiger tamers did" and what Steve Irwin did are two seperate things. What Segfried and Roy were doing was taking wild animals and prancing them around like pets. There was all the room for error. They got what was coming to them. Wild Animals should not exist in captivity for public amusment.

Why do you think so many people have been injured during Circus acts? They are put in an unnatural environment, expected to do unnatural things, and often are mistreated. I'm no PETA zealot, but I do feel that Circus should abandon the outdated idea of prancing animals around for human amusement like some freak show.

Steve Irwin has his animals in enclosure that are made to similate thier natural environment. They are given the best possible.

As for no one dying. Has it ever crossed your mind that when Steve is out in those various locations....his camera crew is in as much danger as Steve is in himself? His job was not only to be the show...but to keep the camera crew safe at all times. He had to be pretty alert.

No one has ever died up till his own death. I think that is amazingly remarkable considering some of the dangerous places he and his camera crew have been.

Your still playing on hypothetical What Ifs that never happened. Stopped going on about that...it is repetitive, and pointless.

As for that incident with the ray....it was actually the Camera Guy who startled the ray...who then darted at steve and shoved his barb in Steve's chest. It was no mistake on Steve's part.

That dog couldn't have been more than 6 years old. He was a pomeranian, and he did have an mean streak...only to certain individuals which didn't include me. I went down to pet him, and he went beserk. There was no warning...nothing. I had to fight him off(I got scratches all over my hands...he had a good grip). Then...it was just the strange feeling of part of my face disfigured, and blood gushing from my face onto my hands. For having such a small body, he made quite a mess.

A dog launching itself across the room and sinking it teeth into a person is not what I consider play. I've seen a Sheltie do it, a Chuahua do it, and even a Lab. All dogs I thought I knew well. Each time blood was drawn.

The dog in question with the gameboy incident belonged to my dad...I was visiting. It was a Chuahah....and it left a nasty wound on that boy's hands. That was uncalled for, she was over in her bed, across the room sleeping. What possesed her to launch across to bite him when he went to pick up the object that was on the very couch he was on is beyond me. Dogs are unpredictable as far as I'm concerned, and I've met quite a few.

Steve didn't piss animals off for the hell of it. He didn't piss animals off period. He did was necessary to protect animals, and help conservation.

Those Tiger freaks used thier animals for sheer human pleasure...which is not something I agree with.

There you go again...basing your dislike of the situation on What Ifs that never happened. The baby was fine, it went well. I think it shows that they knew what they were doing.

Your response to my response about Rodeo's is irrelevent.

I didn't see an opposing side. It was a diverse group of people, some members of the park, Terri herself, Steve himself, and I think there were a few members of the Camera crew. There was also a guy I couldn't quite identify.

Do you know how resilent a baby's body is? They are practically living shock absorbers. The head was tucked into his fathers arm, if the father stepped backwards suddenly there would not have been whip lash. Yet again another "What If".

Jumping off a bridge is a bad example. That goes with the "Follow the Leader lesson" which has nothing to do with this.

What Ifs as in....What If the time my Co-Workers were in the Discovery Room(where the Komodo Dragon is being held temporarily)....and what if while we were going over the script the creature broke out. It is possible...but unlikely. Are you going to tell me my supervisor was irresponsible for bringing us in there, or for the Adults of the Kids camp to bring kids in there on the slight possibility that the creature could break though his carefully sealed and strengthened enclosure? That is a What If scenario that you could go an on about.

We know the area is safe. There is almost no risk...we are certain of it. It is the same with the crocodile...and steve, and the child that was snuggled securely in his arm.

I've never seen guys with guns shooting snakes in his episodes. You might have simply passed over the episode when he was working with Elephents, and they were tracking down poachers...or with a group who expose illegal black-market sale of various endangered animals and thier body parts from shop to source.

 

[Lethkhar]

Sanguvixen

In almost every episode he reminds his views to never do the things he does. He always emphisizes that he is a trained professional, and that the only reason he can do the things he does is because of his training.

Steve is the best professional in the world as far as I'm concerned. A lot of people bitten by snakes pick the animal up by the neck. Ever notice how he picks them up by the tail? Maybe that is why he's never been been by a Venomous Snake...ever.

He messes with animals to save them. It is unfortunate, but when you want to rescue an animal(including wild animals) you have to come in some sort of physical contact with them(most of the time, and especially with Crocs). What you might call pissing off an animal, I call restraining for capture, so that the animal can be taken to a better, safer place.

He doesn't always rescue the animals. In the ones that I've seen, he simply told people about them while he picked then up and/or poked them with something. I've seen ones where he rescues animals, and I have nothing against that. However, he isn't always doing it for the animal's safety. Sometimes it's just for entertainment.

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Steve showed the world a new way to capture and release animals, while reducing the amount of stress on them. He showed people how to love animals that most people don't care to love. If you loose the Apex predator of an ecosystem...you loose the entire ecosystem.

Er...Love...Right... rolleyes

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That man did so much, and he did not encourage people to go up and touch/handle animals in the wild. It was quite the opposite, he discouraged people from doing so. He spread the idea of Conserve wildlife, and to simply observe it.

Refer to pictures.^

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What those "Lion and Tiger tamers did" and what Steve Irwin did are two seperate things. What Segfried and Roy were doing was taking wild animals and prancing them around like pets. There was all the room for error. They got what was coming to them. Wild Animals should not exist in captivity for public amusment.

You mean like this?

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Why do you think so many people have been injured during Circus acts? They are put in an unnatural environment, expected to do unnatural things, and often are mistreated. I'm no PETA zealot, but I do feel that Circus should abandon the outdated idea of prancing animals around for human amusement like some freak show.

Steve Irwin has his animals in enclosure that are made to similate thier natural environment. They are given the best possible.

But they're still enclosed, and they're still used for amusement.

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As for no one dying. Has it ever crossed your mind that when Steve is out in those various locations....his camera crew is in as much danger as Steve is in himself? His job was not only to be the show...but to keep the camera crew safe at all times. He had to be pretty alert.

No one has ever died up till his own death. I think that is amazingly remarkable considering some of the dangerous places he and his camera crew have been.

Your still playing on hypothetical What Ifs that never happened. Stopped going on about that...it is repetitive, and pointless.

Absolutely not.

Just because someone survives something doesn't mean that they should do it. That is the point I'm trying to make.

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As for that incident with the ray....it was actually the Camera Guy who startled the ray...who then darted at steve and shoved his barb in Steve's chest. It was no mistake on Steve's part.

Really? You have the video?

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That dog couldn't have been more than 6 years old. He was a pomeranian, and he did have an mean streak...only to certain individuals which didn't include me. I went down to pet him, and he went beserk. There was no warning...nothing. I had to fight him off(I got scratches all over my hands...he had a good grip). Then...it was just the strange feeling of part of my face disfigured, and blood gushing from my face onto my hands. For having such a small body, he made quite a mess.

A dog launching itself across the room and sinking it teeth into a person is not what I consider play. I've seen a Sheltie do it, a Chuahua do it, and even a Lab. All dogs I thought I knew well. Each time blood was drawn.

The dog in question with the gameboy incident belonged to my dad...I was visiting. It was a Chuahah....and it left a nasty wound on that boy's hands. That was uncalled for, she was over in her bed, across the room sleeping. What possesed her to launch across to bite him when he went to pick up the object that was on the very couch he was on is beyond me. Dogs are unpredictable as far as I'm concerned, and I've met quite a few.

Wow.

Seriously, all the dogs you have known are ******** insane.

I have never met a dog that spontaneously bit people. I have never known anyone who was bitten by a dog. Seriously.

I'm sure there was a provocation. The dog could have been having a really bad dream when you touched it. Then it could have reacted in a violent way.

The dog waking up, leaping across the room, and biting someone means that the dog has a psychological problem. Anyone can have that.

I believe that a crocodile is more dangerous than a dog. I'm sure the majority of the world agrees with me. I mean, have you ever heard of "The Dog Hunter!" on TV? You know, someone who wrestles with dogs and cages them to "save" them?

Didn't think so.

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Steve didn't piss animals off for the hell of it. He didn't piss animals off period. He did was necessary to protect animals, and help conservation.

Those Tiger freaks used thier animals for sheer human pleasure...which is not something I agree with.

Refer to above pictures.

When Roy was being carried to the hospital, he kept babble about how they shouldn't kill the tiger. I think he cared about the tiger.

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There you go again...basing your dislike of the situation on What Ifs that never happened. The baby was fine, it went well. I think it shows that they knew what they were doing.

Hm...Then I guess I should hang my baby cousin outside the car window as we're driving. If all goes well, then I'm sure that doing that is perfectly safe.

Once again, even if it turns out well that still doesn't make it any safer to do.

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Your response to my response about Rodeo's is irrelevent.

Where'd you get that idea? confused

It seems relevant to me.

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I didn't see an opposing side. It was a diverse group of people, some members of the park, Terri herself, Steve himself, and I think there were a few members of the Camera crew. There was also a guy I couldn't quite identify.

No opposing side? Then how do you expect to get an unbiased view of the subject?

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Do you know how resilent a baby's body is? They are practically living shock absorbers. The head was tucked into his fathers arm, if the father stepped backwards suddenly there would not have been whip lash. Yet again another "What If".

Jumping off a bridge is a bad example. That goes with the "Follow the Leader lesson" which has nothing to do with this.

That was just bad debate right there.

I mean, responding to my "jump off the bridge" example by saying that that example should be used with a different analogy, an analogy which happens to be irrelevant? I mean, seriously. That's just pathetic. lol



What Ifs as in....What If the time my Co-Workers were in the Discovery Room(where the Komodo Dragon is being held temporarily)....and what if while we were going over the script the creature broke out. It is

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possible...but unlikely. Are you going to tell me my supervisor was irresponsible for bringing us in there, or for the Adults of the Kids camp to bring kids in there on the slight possibility that the creature could break though his carefully sealed and strengthened enclosure? That is a What If scenario that you could go an on about.

We know the area is safe. There is almost no risk...we are certain of it. It is the same with the crocodile...and steve, and the child that was snuggled securely in his arm.

Then why aren't there school field trips to the zoo where kids get to go stand next to a crocodile in its enclosure?

Do you have any idea what a legal nightmare that would cause?

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I've never seen guys with guns shooting snakes in his episodes. You might have simply passed over the episode when he was working with Elephents, and they were tracking down poachers...or with a group who expose illegal black-market sale of various endangered animals and thier body parts from shop to source.

Nope.

They were hunting the snakes to help control the population. Steve found one they missed, messed with it, then put it back in the branch so as "not to disturb their work".

I remember it quite clearly.  

[Sanguvixen]

Look, you are determined to have a fault in him. Determined to find something wrong with him based on "What Ifs."

I am a person who has watched his shows, and followed him since he first aired on TV. I know a lot about him, and a lot about what happens behind the scenes at zoos and animal parks. Hell...I've worked at one, and I know what it is like.

I know much more than you about how much planning has to go on behind scenes. Your logic is quite faulty, and it seems to me you have no understanding at all of the whole situation.

Can you honestly tell me that you've gone behind the scenes with a massive Harbor Seal(actually 4 of them) with teeth that can rip your hand off?

Have you ever had to work with an ill tempered rapter(bird of prey) that despite his small size could slice a finger clean to the bone?

Have you ever been trained to handle up to 5 different species of snakes and have been trained on how to present them to the public? By present I mean hold in a way that little children can touch them without harming them.

I highly doubt that you have. You have nothing on what it takes or what it is like to work with potentially dangerous animals.

Now I know a Harbor Seal is no crocodile, but they can be just as dangerous. Unlike a Croc...you can't jump on top and stop it from attacking.

Yeah...I've worked with them for a little bit. Yes...if you get bitten, you'll have a massive infection that can lead to amputation of limbs, and yes they are wild animals. However, the staff knows the animals well, and have trained them, and I felt perfectly safe being around them.

I know that the Owl I had to work with has been in captivity for 4 years, has been glove trained, is capable of doing some major damage to your hands, and has very very sharp claws and still I felt relatively safe working with him. Yes...there were a few close calls where he unexpectedly lunged out at my ungloved hand as I jessed him, instead of the leather protecting my left hand. But...I had my reflexes to save my hand.

Oh yeah...everytime I went to retrieve a snake for a program I ran the risk of any one of them latching onto my hand, and whipping its body around my arm. Of course I know these animals have been in captivity thier entire life, and thus I feel comfortable handling them.

It is about respect, and about knowing the animal....about being on your guard, and about being alert. You can't be paying attention to something else as you jess the Owl. If you let your face get too close to his....he can bite. And...uh...it won't be pretty.

Only one of these animals pose a real life threatening danger when working with them. I respect animals, I give them thier space, I arm myself with knowledge, and I know how to act. That is how I keep myself, and the animals safe when working with them.

So from the standpoint of someone who has worked with animals, and dangerous ones that can offer some pretty bad physical injury, and being someone who has followed the Crocodile Hunter from the beginning, I can offer an educated opinion, that what he did, with his child, was safe.

There was risk. I admit that. There is risk with everything you do when working with wild animals. That is what I have to accept, since it my choice to go for a career working with these not so safe critters.

However when you care about something, sometimes you have to take risks for them. Steve had his own reasons for wanting to introduce his child...the future of the park, to the sight, sound, and smell of a Crocodile early on.

It surprises me how so many people say one thing when he is alive, and once he died, people turn cheek and start bad mouthing him. I've seen it in the newspapers, with people I know, on the E-net, and on TV. It frustrates me to no end.

I think it is best that we agree to disagree and move on.

Let us Agree to Disagree because I see no resolution of continuing this further. I know a little more than you do...and I'd rather avoid one giant, pointless debate on opinons.

 

[Sanguvixen]

I have something else to say, on a completely different note.

People go to zoos, animal museums, wild-life parks, all sorts of places every day. They see people working with the different animals.

You have the people who work with the Zebra, the Giraffs, the Antelope, the Monkeys, the Apes, the Snakes, the Crocodiles, the Rhinos, the Hippos, the Tigers and so on.

People often go to the area where you have tigers and they immediately assume that those individuals have the most dangerous jobs working with the Tiger. Or people assume that the ones handling the Crocs are in the most danger.

Every single animal that has a mouth, and is beyond a certain size is dangerous. Did you know that working with Elephants requires just as much vigilance and caution as working with Tigers?

You can be mauled by a Tiger, or Trampled by a Elephent. Elephants have trampled, and even speared animal handlers on many an occassion.

You can be sent a flying and deadly kick by both Zebra, Giraffs, and Antelope. It happens too.

Monkeys...don't get me started...thier teeth are scary. Thier heads are nothing but fur, brain, and large fangs.

Rhinos are simply dangerous in the fact that they have bad eye sight, and spook easy. You don't want to be hit by one of those charging.

When you look at it in "What If" standards, each and every one of those animals is dangerous. Yes...being an animal handler is a potentially hazerdous job. There are accidents.

Ever hear of the girl that was mauled by tiger? Her family paid to have her picture taken next to a captive tiger...and ended up paying with her life.

My point is...in the wake of what happened with Steve, that you should be aware that those people are taking risks every single day for the things they care about...and just to appreciate that.

With knowledge, vigilance, trust, respect, and alertness they manage to work among the animals that they care to protect, which in turn allows "you" the public to witness them.

Oh yeah...and Animals Handlers don't get paid a lot of money. Did you know that?

The reason why I bring this up is because I was speaking to a few people the other day, and I recieved a shock at how they thought that only people who work with predators are in danger. It was a major WTF moment for me. Oh....elephents arn't dangerous as well? Zebra's arn't either?

 

[Lethkhar]

Sanguvixen

Look, you are determined to have a fault in him. Determined to find something wrong with him based on "What Ifs."

I am a person who has watched his shows, and followed him since he first aired on TV. I know a lot about him, and a lot about what happens behind the scenes at zoos and animal parks. Hell...I've worked at one, and I know what it is like.

I know much more than you about how much planning has to go on behind scenes. Your logic is quite faulty, and it seems to me you have no understanding at all of the whole situation.

Can you honestly tell me that you've gone behind the scenes with a massive Harbor Seal(actually 4 of them) with teeth that can rip your hand off?

Have you ever had to work with an ill tempered rapter(bird of prey) that despite his small size could slice a finger clean to the bone?

Have you ever been trained to handle up to 5 different species of snakes and have been trained on how to present them to the public? By present I mean hold in a way that little children can touch them without harming them.

I highly doubt that you have. You have nothing on what it takes or what it is like to work with potentially dangerous animals.

Now I know a Harbor Seal is no crocodile, but they can be just as dangerous. Unlike a Croc...you can't jump on top and stop it from attacking.

Yeah...I've worked with them for a little bit. Yes...if you get bitten, you'll have a massive infection that can lead to amputation of limbs, and yes they are wild animals. However, the staff knows the animals well, and have trained them, and I felt perfectly safe being around them.

I know that the Owl I had to work with has been in captivity for 4 years, has been glove trained, is capable of doing some major damage to your hands, and has very very sharp claws and still I felt relatively safe working with him. Yes...there were a few close calls where he unexpectedly lunged out at my ungloved hand as I jessed him, instead of the leather protecting my left hand. But...I had my reflexes to save my hand.

Oh yeah...everytime I went to retrieve a snake for a program I ran the risk of any one of them latching onto my hand, and whipping its body around my arm. Of course I know these animals have been in captivity thier entire life, and thus I feel comfortable handling them.

It is about respect, and about knowing the animal....about being on your guard, and about being alert. You can't be paying attention to something else as you jess the Owl. If you let your face get too close to his....he can bite. And...uh...it won't be pretty.

Only one of these animals pose a real life threatening danger when working with them. I respect animals, I give them thier space, I arm myself with knowledge, and I know how to act. That is how I keep myself, and the animals safe when working with them.

So from the standpoint of someone who has worked with animals, and dangerous ones that can offer some pretty bad physical injury, and being someone who has followed the Crocodile Hunter from the beginning, I can offer an educated opinion, that what he did, with his child, was safe.

There was risk. I admit that. There is risk with everything you do when working with wild animals. That is what I have to accept, since it my choice to go for a career working with these not so safe critters.

However when you care about something, sometimes you have to take risks for them. Steve had his own reasons for wanting to introduce his child...the future of the park, to the sight, sound, and smell of a Crocodile early on.

It surprises me how so many people say one thing when he is alive, and once he died, people turn cheek and start bad mouthing him. I've seen it in the newspapers, with people I know, on the E-net, and on TV. It frustrates me to no end.

I think it is best that we agree to disagree and move on.

Let us Agree to Disagree because I see no resolution of continuing this further. I know a little more than you do...and I'd rather avoid one giant, pointless debate on opinons.

Once again, my problem was not him endangering himself. I wouldn't give a s**t if he killed himself.

My problem was that he carried his baby in there, at a time when it was vulnerable, unable to protest or even understand what was going on. In fact, I guaruntee you that it will not remember the scene.

Therefore, I conclude that it was an unecessary risk that Steve Iriwn took with the kid, and therefore a sign of a careless parent. Maybe it was just that one instant, but I know people who were taken from their parents for less severe things than that.

And yes, I felt like this before he died.

End of discussion, I suppose. It's a matter of opinion, and it really doesn't matter anymore anyway. He's dead and gone.  

[Lethkhar]

Sanguvixen

I have something else to say, on a completely different note.

People go to zoos, animal museums, wild-life parks, all sorts of places every day. They see people working with the different animals.

You have the people who work with the Zebra, the Giraffs, the Antelope, the Monkeys, the Apes, the Snakes, the Crocodiles, the Rhinos, the Hippos, the Tigers and so on.

People often go to the area where you have tigers and they immediately assume that those individuals have the most dangerous jobs working with the Tiger. Or people assume that the ones handling the Crocs are in the most danger.

Every single animal that has a mouth, and is beyond a certain size is dangerous. Did you know that working with Elephants requires just as much vigilance and caution as working with Tigers?

You can be mauled by a Tiger, or Trampled by a Elephent. Elephants have trampled, and even speared animal handlers on many an occassion.

You can be sent a flying and deadly kick by both Zebra, Giraffs, and Antelope. It happens too.

Monkeys...don't get me started...thier teeth are scary. Thier heads are nothing but fur, brain, and large fangs.

Rhinos are simply dangerous in the fact that they have bad eye sight, and spook easy. You don't want to be hit by one of those charging.

When you look at it in "What If" standards, each and every one of those animals is dangerous. Yes...being an animal handler is a potentially hazerdous job. There are accidents.

Ever hear of the girl that was mauled by tiger? Her family paid to have her picture taken next to a captive tiger...and ended up paying with her life.

My point is...in the wake of what happened with Steve, that you should be aware that those people are taking risks every single day for the things they care about...and just to appreciate that.

With knowledge, vigilance, trust, respect, and alertness they manage to work among the animals that they care to protect, which in turn allows "you" the public to witness them.

Oh yeah...and Animals Handlers don't get paid a lot of money. Did you know that?

The reason why I bring this up is because I was speaking to a few people the other day, and I recieved a shock at how they thought that only people who work with predators are in danger. It was a major WTF moment for me. Oh....elephents arn't dangerous as well? Zebra's arn't either?

I know. My brother had to go to the hospital in Costa Rica because he was bitten by a monkey.  

[Sanguvixen]

Lethkhar

Sanguvixen

I have something else to say, on a completely different note.

People go to zoos, animal museums, wild-life parks, all sorts of places every day. They see people working with the different animals.

You have the people who work with the Zebra, the Giraffs, the Antelope, the Monkeys, the Apes, the Snakes, the Crocodiles, the Rhinos, the Hippos, the Tigers and so on.

People often go to the area where you have tigers and they immediately assume that those individuals have the most dangerous jobs working with the Tiger. Or people assume that the ones handling the Crocs are in the most danger.

Every single animal that has a mouth, and is beyond a certain size is dangerous. Did you know that working with Elephants requires just as much vigilance and caution as working with Tigers?

You can be mauled by a Tiger, or Trampled by a Elephent. Elephants have trampled, and even speared animal handlers on many an occassion.

You can be sent a flying and deadly kick by both Zebra, Giraffs, and Antelope. It happens too.

Monkeys...don't get me started...thier teeth are scary. Thier heads are nothing but fur, brain, and large fangs.

Rhinos are simply dangerous in the fact that they have bad eye sight, and spook easy. You don't want to be hit by one of those charging.

When you look at it in "What If" standards, each and every one of those animals is dangerous. Yes...being an animal handler is a potentially hazerdous job. There are accidents.

Ever hear of the girl that was mauled by tiger? Her family paid to have her picture taken next to a captive tiger...and ended up paying with her life.

My point is...in the wake of what happened with Steve, that you should be aware that those people are taking risks every single day for the things they care about...and just to appreciate that.

With knowledge, vigilance, trust, respect, and alertness they manage to work among the animals that they care to protect, which in turn allows "you" the public to witness them.

Oh yeah...and Animals Handlers don't get paid a lot of money. Did you know that?

The reason why I bring this up is because I was speaking to a few people the other day, and I recieved a shock at how they thought that only people who work with predators are in danger. It was a major WTF moment for me. Oh....elephents arn't dangerous as well? Zebra's arn't either?

I know. My brother had to go to the hospital in Costa Rica because he was bitten by a monkey.

Ouch ;cringes; What kind of Monkey was it?