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 Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:16 pm
Kukushka Grip of Death if you have a problem with having only one child, THEN MOVE OUT. I have a problem with this statement. I have a very big problem with this statement. Namely, that it assumes that everyone is rich enough and educated enough to be accepted anywhere else. Do you have any idea how bloody hard it is to immigrate or get a visa just about ANYWHERE if you don't have tons of money or are invaluable as a skilled worker? I married into a family that spent YEARS denying their children the toys, clothes, and food that most people here take for granted so that they could pay the immigration fees and have enough saved up that they would allow them into the country (well over $10,000CA in total) and they were lucky enough that my father-in-law had good enough grads to be accepted into the highly competitive institute and could have a higher education. Otherwise, they would never have been accepted. "Don't like it, get the ******** out" is one of my pet peeves. It's one of those statements that just crawls under my skin because it is so incredibly far removed from reality and shows a complete lack of understanding and respect for the millions of people who suffer daily because they CAN'T get out. I appriciate your honesty in approaching this topic, and actually bothering to quote the parts that upset you. Although I do not appriciate being labeled as ignorant and disrespectful to diversity. With that said, perhaps I was coming off as callous when I stated that one liner. The way that I saw it was not a "don't let the door hit you on your way out, you whiny b*****d", BUT as a STRONG STATEMENT against the country one was leaving that your contributions, loyalty, and talent will be channeled into another country INSTEAD. If you get enough people to leave a country it will notice, and it will have to shape up if it wants to be an attractive country for people to live in. Otherwise, especially in those two countries, considering that overpopulation is a real global problem...it is unrealistic for families to try to sneak having more than one child in this current point in time. I understand the emotional issues involved with not being allowed more than one sprog, but at the same time, we have to be realistic, mature, and learn to compromise about fertility and family planning for a sustainable future. As well as pay the poor liveable, sustainable wages as an economic motivation not to procreate out of control (due to desperate economic neccessity at the price of a quality of life). I realize that there are a lot of constraints that people in developing countries have, whether it is to move out, or to participate in politics, etc. Do you honestly think I was completely unaware of that? Don't blame me because Canada, the U.S., and other industrialized nations exploit developing countries through many ways, including the immigrant quotas. Don't blame me because many developing countries have corrupt governments or have disdain for human rights.
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:22 pm
HouyoTsunamiMatrix Almost everything thing in this topic makes me very angry for some reason or another. For one, alot of people in this topic are coming off as ASSHOLES. Sorry, but I can't help but think that while reading through this topic. I can't (Or won't) say exactly who or what I'm angry about, but there's something deffinatly in this topic that's pissing me off. stare It's ok to voice when you're upset about something, but let's try to be as articulate and mature as we can try to be when approaching a sensitive topic, and pointing out where and why the upset instead of resorting to name calling. Reasoning goes a long way in helping solve problems, eh?
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:25 pm
Kukushka Thank you, that's much better smile I get angry to. I read these things, or I see them happening, and it's very easy to be angry. But identifying an entire group of people to direct your hatred towards is how Bush got his second term. I'm really glad you stepped back. Thank you very much. I said what I did mostly due to emotional rather than logical means, and that usually doesn't bode well for the intelligence, accuracy, or credibility of an argument. Thank you for accepting my apology. PS — is it okay to focus a good bit of my annoyance on Bush? I know enough about him to make an informed decision to do so, I promise. biggrin
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:28 pm
Grip - I am in no way blaming you for the problems. I am merely pointing out that the solution you presented (and I do now realise that you weren't really presenting it as a solution) is not, in fact, a solution to the people who most need many children.
For the poor, especially in places where the only people who care for the aged are their children, being limited to one child (male OR female) can be extremely difficult. Especially if you own a farm and need workers but aren't a rich land owner capable of hiring them. So the people who are the most harmed by the limits on children are the people who are least able to leave.
And personally, while I certainly do promote smaller families and support governments that run ad campaigns and advise people to have smaller families (as well as educational programs that teach women who to use contraceptives and otherwise show them that there is an alternative to having large families), I do not support that laws force people to limit the number of children they have.
I understand that it's a very sensitive issue and that both of these countries are HUGELY overcrowded, to the point where the entire world is harmed (though I must say, for all their population, they still produce less waste and use up fewer resources than the US or Canada), I think that the government simply should have no right to legistlate the uterii and testicles of its people.
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:29 pm
Flame Warrioress PS — is it okay to focus a good bit of my annoyance on Bush? I know enough about him to make an informed decision to do so, I promise. biggrin Go ahead. The man deserves what he gets.
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:57 pm
Kukushka Aiko_Kaida they are looking for Americans. Of course. Didn't you know that (white) Americans are superior in every way to all other people on earth? At least, that's what a lot of Americans keep telling me... Just to add a PS to my previous post, a nerve was touched. Sorry 'bout that. I wonder if they are specifically after American women or is it white women in general. I would go hang out in an english regional chat and find out, but I'm afraid it would be pretty obvious that I was lying.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:40 am
Aiko_Kaida You know what is a really fun game? Go to a yahoo regional chat room with an obviously female screen name and hang around for a while without saying anything. No matter what region of the country you say you are in you will get a lot of Indian guys messaging you. If you talk to them most will ask you to marry them within a few days. You can always tell who they are easily because if you ask them a/s/l they will tell you their age and gender, but leave off the location. They also seem to like to use the buzz feature if you don't answer them fast enough. Apparently they are already so short on women they are looking for Americans. I don't know if this applies to indian guys, but middle eastern guys are educated to believe that american women are whores that'll sleep with any man that mentions marriage. So, their plan is, go to American, if you're in college there, get your degree, sleep with some woman, dump her, and then back at home marry a proper virgin.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:08 am
Aiko_Kaida Kukushka Aiko_Kaida they are looking for Americans. Of course. Didn't you know that (white) Americans are superior in every way to all other people on earth? At least, that's what a lot of Americans keep telling me... Just to add a PS to my previous post, a nerve was touched. Sorry 'bout that. I wonder if they are specifically after American women or is it white women in general. I would go hang out in an english regional chat and find out, but I'm afraid it would be pretty obvious that I was lying. I think it's Western women in general, but that some countries are more attractive than others. I made the mistake to sign up on a pen-pal site with my MSN. Even though I deleted my account over half a year ago, I'm still being added by all kinds of people. Some of them were definitely looking for someone to marry.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:25 am
RMarques Aiko_Kaida You know what is a really fun game? Go to a yahoo regional chat room with an obviously female screen name and hang around for a while without saying anything. No matter what region of the country you say you are in you will get a lot of Indian guys messaging you. If you talk to them most will ask you to marry them within a few days. You can always tell who they are easily because if you ask them a/s/l they will tell you their age and gender, but leave off the location. They also seem to like to use the buzz feature if you don't answer them fast enough. Apparently they are already so short on women they are looking for Americans. I don't know if this applies to indian guys, but middle eastern guys are educated to believe that american women are whores that'll sleep with any man that mentions marriage. So, their plan is, go to American, if you're in college there, get your degree, sleep with some woman, dump her, and then back at home marry a proper virgin.
I'm sorry, but that's just so sick. Talk about double standards... confused . The guys in the U.S. are no different from the women in that respect...
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:20 am
GreenSouthpaw RMarques Aiko_Kaida You know what is a really fun game? Go to a yahoo regional chat room with an obviously female screen name and hang around for a while without saying anything. No matter what region of the country you say you are in you will get a lot of Indian guys messaging you. If you talk to them most will ask you to marry them within a few days. You can always tell who they are easily because if you ask them a/s/l they will tell you their age and gender, but leave off the location. They also seem to like to use the buzz feature if you don't answer them fast enough. Apparently they are already so short on women they are looking for Americans. I don't know if this applies to indian guys, but middle eastern guys are educated to believe that american women are whores that'll sleep with any man that mentions marriage. So, their plan is, go to American, if you're in college there, get your degree, sleep with some woman, dump her, and then back at home marry a proper virgin. I'm sorry, but that's just so sick. Talk about double standards... confused . The guys in the U.S. are no different from the women in that respect... Seriously. If a man has sex with about 12 girls in a few days he's "cool" he's a "stud" he's a "baller" etc, if a girl sleeps with 3 guys a year, all of them she was dating at one point , she's a "slut" a "whore" a "floozy" etc. It's just UGH.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:04 am
I was proposed to when I was 11 while in Egypt... The guy wouldn't leave us alone and kept offering my mother all these really nice carpets for me... Then he wrote my name and his in a heart on his business card and gave it to me telling me to think about it.
That was fun. Especially for a girle who got NO attention back home.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:32 am
Ah, yes. I found this out firsthand. How, you may ask?
My sister was being proposed to by six or seven Asian guys. Oddly enough, they were all rich, searching for an attractive blonde-haired blue-eyed albino chick weighing 100 friggin' pounds who has the brain that of a starfish.If you get that phrase, kudos to you.
What pisses me off is that in my years of using the Internet, every single one of those kind of guys could care less about the brown-haired-blue-eyed-intellect-who-isn't-a-whore-or-a-slave-to-the-American-media. stare
RMarques, you pretty much hit the nail right on the head.
[/possiblyofftopicrant]
Mods, feel free to delete this if it's too off-topic.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:44 am
Kukushka I was proposed to when I was 11 while in Egypt... The guy wouldn't leave us alone and kept offering my mother all these really nice carpets for me... Then he wrote my name and his in a heart on his business card and gave it to me telling me to think about it. That was fun. Especially for a girle who got NO attention back home.
I don't get attention and I'm sixteen. whee .
But that's just scary.
Really, I don't see this as meaning that the men will revere women any more than they did, because obviously they aren't being given enough of a hard time to believe they have any reason to change their beliefs.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:12 pm
This is so screwed up.
Not just that they devalue women so much in their society (I do not apologize for being culturally insensitive about this. When a society devaules its women this much, I do not see it as a worthwhile society and I have no respect for it.), but that this makes men sound REALLY bad.
Who still thinks patriachy doesn't have a negative effect on both sexes? When men need women as nothing but pacifiers, "sexual outlets", and practically mothers or babysitters, what does that say about them? When men are assumed to be--and probably are--violent and dangerous without women, aren't they just as bad off.
People seriously need to stop valuing people solely for what they have in their pants. I hope this finally wakes people up.
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