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The_Mortician
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:27 pm


I love the way they say that if micro-evoution is true (Changes within a speicies) Then Macro-evolution must true also (i.e. Dinos becoming birds.) stare
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:28 pm


NewFoundLight
Sarcastic_Angel
NewFoundLight
Sarcastic_Angel
this is one of those common christian questions we're always trying to figure out. I keep thinking that science isn't real, but it's just something God created to test us in our faith. or it's physically real, made by God, but spiritually, it doesn't matter. But will we every really know until we get to heaven, and even then, will God tell us.

But those are all good points. They say they can prove something and say the bible isn't real, when actually, they have found written records of the bible stashed in caves. So which is true? or are they both true? or is science just some made up thing, put together, like a puzzle, or made to be a game to help us figure out the world?
well we have to realize that science has a bunch of theories that are either proven, non proven or almost but not solidified proven, I don't think certain forms of science contradict our beliefs, but I do believe there are those that do, like evolution. The important thing to mrealize is science is a way of trying to figure out why things work, and sometimes the out come of a theory maybe be false in reality, or actually true, my point is don't knock science, it's a good way to learn.

Ya, there is some science that doesn't contradict the bible, and I absolutely HATE learning evolution. If they can't prove it, and they claim they can't the bible, so why only teach one?
I would say don't hate it learn it, but don't believe in it.

Good point. Ok, I don't believe in it, and don't understand why we learn something that can't totally be proven without learning the other point of view/s.

Sarcastic_Angel


Guardian - Angel

PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:13 am


Sarcastic_Angel
NewFoundLight
Sarcastic_Angel
NewFoundLight
Sarcastic_Angel
this is one of those common christian questions we're always trying to figure out. I keep thinking that science isn't real, but it's just something God created to test us in our faith. or it's physically real, made by God, but spiritually, it doesn't matter. But will we every really know until we get to heaven, and even then, will God tell us.

But those are all good points. They say they can prove something and say the bible isn't real, when actually, they have found written records of the bible stashed in caves. So which is true? or are they both true? or is science just some made up thing, put together, like a puzzle, or made to be a game to help us figure out the world?
well we have to realize that science has a bunch of theories that are either proven, non proven or almost but not solidified proven, I don't think certain forms of science contradict our beliefs, but I do believe there are those that do, like evolution. The important thing to mrealize is science is a way of trying to figure out why things work, and sometimes the out come of a theory maybe be false in reality, or actually true, my point is don't knock science, it's a good way to learn.

Ya, there is some science that doesn't contradict the bible, and I absolutely HATE learning evolution. If they can't prove it, and they claim they can't the bible, so why only teach one?
I would say don't hate it learn it, but don't believe in it.

Good point. Ok, I don't believe in it, and don't understand why we learn something that can't totally be proven without learning the other point of view/s.

I totally agree. Like u told me before, why do they teach evolution in schools like a fact if it's just a theory?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:06 am


It seems to me that both Christians and scientists alike fail to see how God and science fit together. You can't just say "forget science" because science explains how the things around us work. When God created the world, He created science too. And you can't argue with most areas of science because most of it has been proven. Evolution, for the record, has NOT beed proven. However, it does seem that simplest organisms appeared on earth first, followed by more and more complex ones. Is there a reason for this? I think so. Is it so unreasonable to think that mabye God started out with simple organisms and worked His way up? Made new types of animals, new species, tweaked things, killed some of them off, made new ones, etc? This would explain why organisms seemed to "evolve" and why they can't find their "missing links." You see? Science an God fit together quite well. Which makes sense, seeing as God created it. smile

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:13 pm


Science and God go hand in hand... When God said, "let their be light", BOOM! an explosion happened in the void. There is evidence of this and there is evidence of God as well... look at the structure of the atom... or even the molecular srtucture of DNA. How do such complex phenomena happen by blind chance??? the answer is simple: THEY DON'T!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:30 pm


you pose and interesting point. many are split on this point aparrently but i know that when the Bible says something about science or history, it is correct. I also know that science has attempted to prove over and over that evolution is the real deal. Although Creation is the christian belief (plz dont take any of this the wrong way i am a christian and am only being scientificaly correct), many diferrent theories have been concocted by many scientist which they belive to be true. Evolution is the greatest of the pagan beliefs. In my opinion, sceintist have supposed evidence that evolution is real, and christians put their faith in the Bible and say that Creation is real, and my thing is to say take your pick. if u want a sure road to hell, take the easy way out. go for Evolution. then u have no one to answer to when u die or do wrong. In Creation on the other hand, u have God himself to answer to when u do wrong. Many believe in Evolution only as a way to get away from their sins. Only those with true charachter believe in Creation. the rest are sinners rejecting God. Dont hate the sinner, just the sin.

ben58766


OnceAgain89

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:53 am


First thing with this whole evolution thing people base it off of the first chapter of genesis which is a totally false thing to base it off. Because if you read further into Genesis God totally wiped out the world with a gaint flood. Killing all of mankind except for Noah, his wife, his sons, and their wives. Also killing every kind of animal that was not on that Arc. When Noah got on the Arc he was 600 years old and when he got off he was 601. Anyways here's a scripture for the animals that were allowed on the arc.

Quote:
Genesis 7:1-3 Finally, the day came when the Lord said to Noah, "Go into the boat with all your family, for among all of the people of the earth, I consider you alone to be righteous. Take along seven pairs of each animal that I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others. Then select seven pairs of every kind of bird. There must be a male and female in each pair to enurse that every kind of living creature will survive the flood.


So God created every kind of living creature. It states it right there, so why even question evolution? The Earth was destoryed but then they mated and multiplied and the Earth was once filled again. And it's quite possible that animals corss bred and the eventually a new breed came out. They do it all the time with birds and dogs, so they can get more money now a days. There's a new breed of dog called puggles. It's a pug and a beagle mix, but it has now been made a breed. And with parrots and birds, they cross breed them all the time and come up with new breeds constantly. So evolution, no? But do we get more breeds, yes. But not because they evolved simply because God's creations cross bred and came up with a new breed.

(( And don't tell me it's not possible for animals to cross breed. Just look at all the muts running around (dog wise) then also look at people. Their are people who are more than one race. If we are higher up than animals and we have relations with other races, what do you think is keeping the animals from doing the same? Nothing cause they do. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with mixed babies, because I honestly don't think it's wrong. Never have nor will I. ESP since my niece is mixed. Just putting that disclaimer.))


Also sidenote: I don't mean a dog and a cat breeding. But what people talk about and one of Darwin's theories of evolution was based on the fact that he found Finches on many different islands but the fact was there were many different types with slight differences. Which could easily be caused by birds cross breeding with each other and making a new breed, not actually based on the idea that they evolved. And owning three different types of birds and my step dad actually thinking of buying a cross-bred breed I checked into it. Pretty much you get to birds that cross breed like. A and B breed and Make C and Another A and B breed making another C then the two C's find each other and mate, you got a new breed starting. (Does that make sense?)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:14 pm


SaraRenee


(( And don't tell me it's not possible for animals to cross breed. Just look at all the muts running around (dog wise) then also look at people. Their are people who are more than one race. If we are higher up than animals and we have relations with other races, what do you think is keeping the animals from doing the same? Nothing cause they do. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with mixed babies, because I honestly don't think it's wrong. Never have nor will I. ESP since my niece is mixed. Just putting that disclaimer.))
Quote:
umm...there's only one race and thats the human race, black people are white, and white people are black people etc..... Same race different type.



Also sidenote: I don't mean a dog and a cat breeding. But what people talk about and one of Darwin's theories of evolution was based on the fact that he found Finches on many different islands but the fact was there were many different types with slight differences. Which could easily be caused by birds cross breeding with each other and making a new breed, not actually based on the idea that they evolved. And owning three different types of birds and my step dad actually thinking of buying a cross-bred breed I checked into it. Pretty much you get to birds that cross breed like. A and B breed and Make C and Another A and B breed making another C then the two C's find each other and mate, you got a new breed starting. (Does that make sense?)
Quote:
I believe the speicies would have to be closely related to do that...is that what your saying?

Sir BlackHeart


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:24 pm


Yea and there is the [race] of finches but they each have different names because they are slightly different so of course they must of evolved. I mean you have humans and you have some white, some paler than white, black, brown, olive, tan, blue eyes, green eyes, brown eyes, two different color eyes, red eyes, white eyes, black hair, brown hair, blonde hair, red hair, white hair, gray hair, some short, some tall, some average, some fat, some thin, some average, ETC. Just because we have all those differences doesn't mean we evolved....Just means people that had slight differences had sex and had kids and so on and so on. Same with the animals. But I don't mean a cat and dog, or a mouse and a rabbit.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:16 pm


SaraRenee
Yea and there is the [race] of finches but they each have different names because they are slightly different so of course they must of evolved. I mean you have humans and you have some white, some paler than white, black, brown, olive, tan, blue eyes, green eyes, brown eyes, two different color eyes, red eyes, white eyes, black hair, brown hair, blonde hair, red hair, white hair, gray hair, some short, some tall, some average, some fat, some thin, some average, ETC. Just because we have all those differences doesn't mean we evolved....Just means people that had slight differences had sex and had kids and so on and so on. Same with the animals. But I don't mean a cat and dog, or a mouse and a rabbit.

nice. i like that spin on the idea. (man do we have some smart people in here or what?)

ben58766


Sir BlackHeart

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:34 pm


SaraRenee
Yea and there is the [race] of finches but they each have different names because they are slightly different so of course they must of evolved. I mean you have humans and you have some white, some paler than white, black, brown, olive, tan, blue eyes, green eyes, brown eyes, two different color eyes, red eyes, white eyes, black hair, brown hair, blonde hair, red hair, white hair, gray hair, some short, some tall, some average, some fat, some thin, some average, ETC. Just because we have all those differences doesn't mean we evolved....Just means people that had slight differences had sex and had kids and so on and so on. Same with the animals. But I don't mean a cat and dog, or a mouse and a rabbit.
what are you talking about, I was stating the fact that it's all the human race...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:41 pm


NoyaMay
Science is our way of trying to figure out what we do not know. people fear what they do not know (exsample fear of death) so therefore peole try to find out as much as they can to relieve this fear. One thing i think is really funny is why they think the earths core is thousands of hundreds of degress hot. they say it's because the slow turning motion with about however many thousand puonds of presure make it exsteamly hot. hmmm never been tested. however they just are kinda just guessing ( they seem to do that alot)but they put it in schools any ways. i could go on and on to. (sorry this science stuff really gets to me. xp ) DEATH TO SCIENCE!!!! bring on the rapture and try to exsplain that one. sorry, i'm ok...... i just hate how they teach it to us from a young age as the "right" way. xp


I agree with you. They haven't proved evolution; there are breaks in the bone chain or something. Yet they teach it in schools. OH!!!! OH!!!!

THE BIG BANG!!!!!!!!!! THEY HAVEN'T PROVED THAT!!!! IT'S JUST A HUNCH!!!!!! THERE IS NO (AND I MEAN NO!!!) WAY TO PROVE IT!!!! I don't understand it. I believe some of it (mostly stuff that doesn't go against my belief) like the magnitude of stars or earthquakes.

Guardian - Angel


Guardian - Angel

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:52 pm


SaraRenee
First thing with this whole evolution thing people base it off of the first chapter of genesis which is a totally false thing to base it off. Because if you read further into Genesis God totally wiped out the world with a gaint flood. Killing all of mankind except for Noah, his wife, his sons, and their wives. Also killing every kind of animal that was not on that Arc. When Noah got on the Arc he was 600 years old and when he got off he was 601. Anyways here's a scripture for the animals that were allowed on the arc.

Quote:
Genesis 7:1-3 Finally, the day came when the Lord said to Noah, "Go into the boat with all your family, for among all of the people of the earth, I consider you alone to be righteous. Take along seven pairs of each animal that I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others. Then select seven pairs of every kind of bird. There must be a male and female in each pair to enurse that every kind of living creature will survive the flood.


So God created every kind of living creature. It states it right there, so why even question evolution? The Earth was destoryed but then they mated and multiplied and the Earth was once filled again. And it's quite possible that animals corss bred and the eventually a new breed came out. They do it all the time with birds and dogs, so they can get more money now a days. There's a new breed of dog called puggles. It's a pug and a beagle mix, but it has now been made a breed. And with parrots and birds, they cross breed them all the time and come up with new breeds constantly. So evolution, no? But do we get more breeds, yes. But not because they evolved simply because God's creations cross bred and came up with a new breed.

(( And don't tell me it's not possible for animals to cross breed. Just look at all the muts running around (dog wise) then also look at people. Their are people who are more than one race. If we are higher up than animals and we have relations with other races, what do you think is keeping the animals from doing the same? Nothing cause they do. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with mixed babies, because I honestly don't think it's wrong. Never have nor will I. ESP since my niece is mixed. Just putting that disclaimer.))


Also sidenote: I don't mean a dog and a cat breeding. But what people talk about and one of Darwin's theories of evolution was based on the fact that he found Finches on many different islands but the fact was there were many different types with slight differences. Which could easily be caused by birds cross breeding with each other and making a new breed, not actually based on the idea that they evolved. And owning three different types of birds and my step dad actually thinking of buying a cross-bred breed I checked into it. Pretty much you get to birds that cross breed like. A and B breed and Make C and Another A and B breed making another C then the two C's find each other and mate, you got a new breed starting. (Does that make sense?)


But they are still dogs. It's not like Catdog (i loved that show) or like cuppies (cat puppies). They are still the same basic breed.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:30 am


Many evolutionary books, including Teaching about Evolution and the Nature of Science, contrast religion/creation opinions with evolution/science facts. It is important to realize that this is a misleading contrast. Creationists often appeal to the facts of science to support their view, and evolutionists often appeal to philosophical assumptions from outside science. While creationists are often criticized for starting with a bias, evolutionists also start with a bias, as many of them admit. The debate between creation and evolution is primarily a dispute between two worldviews, with mutually incompatible underlying assumptions.

This chapter takes a critical look at the definitions of science, and the roles that biases and assumptions play in the interpretations by scientists.
The bias of evolutionary leaders
It is a fallacy to believe that facts speak for themselves—they are always interpreted according to a framework. The framework behind the evolutionists’ interpretation is naturalism—it is assumed that things made themselves, that no divine intervention has happened, and that God has not revealed to us knowledge about the past.

Evolution is a deduction from this assumption, and it is essentially the idea that things made themselves. It includes these unproven ideas: nothing gave rise to something at an alleged ‘big bang,’ non-living matter gave rise to life, single-celled organisms gave rise to many-celled organisms, invertebrates gave rise to vertebrates, ape-like creatures gave rise to man, non-intelligent and amoral matter gave rise to intelligence and morality, man’s yearnings gave rise to religions, etc.

Professor D.M.S. Watson, one of the leading biologists and science writers of his day, demonstrated the atheistic bias behind much evolutionary thinking when he wrote:

Evolution [is] a theory universally accepted not because it can be proven by logically coherent evidence to be true, but because the only alternative, special creation, is clearly incredible.1

So it’s not a question of biased religious creationists versus objective scientific evolutionists; rather, it is the biases of the Christian religion versus the biases of the religion of secular humanism resulting in different interpretations of the same scientific data. As the anti-creationist science writer Boyce Rensberger admits:

At this point, it is necessary to reveal a little inside information about how scientists work, something the textbooks don’t usually tell you. The fact is that scientists are not really as objective and dispassionate in their work as they would like you to think. Most scientists first get their ideas about how the world works not through rigorously logical processes but through hunches and wild guesses. As individuals, they often come to believe something to be true long before they assemble the hard evidence that will convince somebody else that it is. Motivated by faith in his own ideas and a desire for acceptance by his peers, a scientist will labor for years knowing in his heart that his theory is correct but devising experiment after experiment whose results he hopes will support his position.2

It’s not really a question of who is biased, but which bias is the correct bias with which to be biased! Actually, Teaching about Evolution admits in the dialogue on pages 22–25 that science isn’t just about facts, and it is tentative, not dogmatic. But the rest of the book is dogmatic that evolution is a fact!

Professor Richard Lewontin, a geneticist (and self-proclaimed Marxist), is a renowned champion of neo-Darwinism, and certainly one of the world’s leaders in promoting evolutionary biology. He recently wrote this very revealing comment (the italics were in the original). It illustrates the implicit philosophical bias against Genesis creation regardless of whether or not the facts support it:

We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfil many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.3

Many evolutionists chide creationists not because of the facts, but because creationists refuse to play by the current rules of the game that exclude supernatural creation a priori.4 That it is indeed a ‘game’ was proclaimed by the evolutionary biologist Richard Dickerson:

Science is fundamentally a game. It is a game with one overriding and defining rule:

Rule #1: Let us see how far and to what extent we can explain the behavior of the physical and material universe in terms of purely physical and material causes, without invoking the supernatural.5

In practice, the ‘game’ is extended to trying to explain not just the behavior, but the origin of everything without the supernatural.

Actually, evolutionists are often not consistent with their own rules against invoking an intelligent designer. For example, when archaeologists find an arrowhead, they can tell it must have been designed, even though they haven’t seen the designer. And the whole basis of the SETI program is that a signal from outer space carrying specific information must have an intelligent source. Yet the materialistic bias of many evolutionists means that they reject an intelligent source for the literally encyclopedic information carried in every living cell.

It’s no accident that the leaders of evolutionary thought were and are ardently opposed to the notion of the Christian God as revealed in the Bible.6 Stephen Jay Gould and others have shown that Darwin’s purpose was to destroy the idea of a divine designer.7 Richard Dawkins applauds evolution because he claims that before Darwin it was impossible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist, as he says he is.8

Many atheists have claimed to be atheists precisely because of evolution. For example, the evolutionary entomologist and sociobiologist E.O. Wilson (who has an article in Teaching about Evolution on page 15) said:

As were many persons from Alabama, I was a born-again Christian. When I was fifteen, I entered the Southern Baptist Church with great fervor and interest in the fundamentalist religion; I left at seventeen when I got to the University of Alabama and heard about evolutionary theory.9

Many people do not realize that the teaching of evolution propagates an anti-biblical religion. The first two tenets of the Humanist Manifesto II (1973), signed by many prominent evolutionists, are:

1. Religious humanists regard the universe as self-existing and not created.
2. Humanism believes that Man is a part of nature and has emerged as a result of a continuous process.

This is exactly what evolution teaches. Many humanist leaders are quite open about using the public schools to proselytize their faith. This might surprise some parents who think the schools are supposed to be free of religious indoctrination, but this quote makes it clear:

I am convinced that the battle for humankind’s future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith: a religion of humanity that recognizes and respects the spark of what theologians call divinity in every human being. These teachers must embody the same selfless dedication as the most rabid fundamentalist preachers, for they will be ministers of another sort, utilizing a classroom instead of a pulpit to convey humanist values in whatever subject they teach, regardless of the educational level—preschool day care or large state university. The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new—the rotting corpse of Christianity, together with all its adjacent evils and misery, and the new faith of humanism … .

It will undoubtedly be a long, arduous, painful struggle replete with much sorrow and many tears, but humanism will emerge triumphant. It must if the family of humankind is to survive.10

Teaching about Evolution, while claiming to be about science and neutral on religion, has some religious statements of its own. For example on page 6:

To accept the probability of change and to see change as an agent of opportunity rather than as a threat is a silent message and challenge in the lesson of evolution.

However, as it admits that evolution is ‘unpredictable and natural,’ and has ‘no specific direction or goal’ (p. 127), this message is incoherent.

The authors of Teaching about Evolution may realize that the rank atheism of most evolutionary leaders would be repugnant to most American parents if they knew. More recently, the agnostic anti-creationist philosopher Ruse admitted, ‘Evolution as a scientific theory makes a commitment to a kind of naturalism’ but this ‘may not be a good thing to admit in a court of law.’11 Teaching about Evolution tries to sanitize evolution by claiming that it is compatible with many religions. It even recruits many religious leaders in support. One of the ‘dialogues’ portrays a teacher having much success diffusing opposition by asking the students to ask their pastor, and coming back with ‘Hey evolution is okay!’ Although the dialogues are fictional, the situation is realistic.

It might surprise many people to realize that many church leaders do not believe their own book, the Bible. This plainly teaches that God created recently in six consecutive normal days, made things to reproduce ‘after their kind,’ and that death and suffering resulted from Adam’s sin. This is one reason why many Christians regard evolution as incompatible with Christianity. On page 58, Teaching about Evolution points out that many religious people believe that ‘God used evolution’ (theistic evolution). But theistic evolution teaches that God used struggle for survival and death, the ‘last enemy’ (1 Cor. 15:26) as His means of achieving a ‘very good’ (Gen. 1:31) creation.12 Biblical creationists find this objectionable.

The only way to assert that evolution and ‘religion’ are compatible is to regard ‘religion’ as having nothing to do with the real world, and being just subjective. A God who ‘created’ by evolution is, for all practical purposes, indistinguishable from no God at all.

Perhaps Teaching about Evolution is letting its guard down sometimes. For example, on page 11 it refers to the ‘explanation provided in Genesis … that God created everything in its present form over the course of six days,’ i.e., Genesis really does teach six-day creation of basic kinds, which contradicts evolution. Therefore, Teaching about Evolution is indeed claiming that evolution conflicts with Genesis, and thus with biblical Christianity, although they usually deny that they are attacking ‘religion.’ Teaching about Evolution often sets up straw men misrepresenting what creationists really do believe. Creationists do not claim that everything was created in exactly the same form as today’s creatures. Creationists believe in variation within a kind, which is totally different from the information-gaining variation required for particles-to-people evolution. This is discussed further in the next chapter.

More blatantly, Teaching about Evolution recommends many books that are very openly atheistic, like those by Richard Dawkins (p. 131).13 On page 129 it says: ‘Statements about creation … should not be regarded as reasonable alternatives to scientific explanations for the origin and evolution of life.’ Since anything not reasonable is unreasonable, Teaching about Evolution is in effect saying that believers in creation are really unreasonable and irrational. This is hardly religiously neutral, but is regarded by many religious people as an attack.

A recent survey published in the leading science journal Nature conclusively showed that the National Academy of Sciences, the producers of Teaching about Evolution, is heavily biased against God, rather than religiously unbiased.14 A survey of all 517 NAS members in biological and physical sciences resulted in just over half responding: 72.2% were overtly atheistic, 20.8% agnostic, and only 7.0% believed in a personal God. Belief in God and immortality was lowest among biologists. It is likely that those who didn’t respond were unbelievers as well, so the study probably underestimates the level of anti-God belief in the NAS. The percentage of unbelief is far higher than the percentage among U.S. scientists in general, or in the whole U.S. population.

Commenting on the professed religious neutrality of Teaching about Evolution, the surveyors comment:

NAS President Bruce Alberts said: ‘There are very many outstanding members of this academy who are very religious people, people who believe in evolution, many of them biologists.’ Our research suggests otherwise.15

The basis of modern science

Many historians, of many different religious persuasions including atheistic, have shown that modern science started to flourish only in largely Christian Europe. For example, Dr Stanley Jaki has documented how the scientific method was stillborn in all cultures apart from the Judeo-Christian culture of Europe.16 These historians point out that the basis of modern science depends on the assumption that the universe was made by a rational creator. An orderly universe makes perfect sense only if it were made by an orderly Creator. But if there is no creator, or if Zeus and his gang were in charge, why should there be any order at all? So, not only is a strong Christian belief not an obstacle to science, such a belief was its very foundation. It is, therefore, fallacious to claim, as many evolutionists do, that believing in miracles means that laboratory science would be impossible. Loren Eiseley stated:

The philosophy of experimental science … began its discoveries and made use of its methods in the faith, not the knowledge, that it was dealing with a rational universe controlled by a creator who did not act upon whim nor interfere with the forces He had set in operation … . It is surely one of the curious paradoxes of history that science, which professionally has little to do with faith, owes its origins to an act of faith that the universe can be rationally interpreted, and that science today is sustained by that assumption.17

Evolutionists, including Eiseley himself, have thus abandoned the only rational justification for science. But Christians can still claim to have such a justification.

It should thus not be surprising, although it is for many people, that most branches of modern science were founded by believers in creation. The list of creationist scientists is impressive.18 A sample:

Physics—Newton, Faraday, Maxwell, Kelvin
Chemistry—Boyle, Dalton, Ramsay
Biology—Ray, Linnaeus, Mendel, Pasteur, Virchow, Agassiz
Geology—Steno, Woodward, Brewster, Buckland, Cuvier
Astronomy—Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler, Herschel, Maunder
Mathematics—Pascal, Leibnitz, Euler

Even today, many scientists reject particles-to-people evolution (i.e., everything made itself). The Answers in Genesis (Australia) staff scientists have published many scientific papers in their own fields. Dr Russell Humphreys, a nuclear physicist working with Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico, has had over 20 articles published in physics journals, while Dr John Baumgardner’s catastrophic plate tectonics theory was reported in Nature. Dr Edward Boudreaux of the University of New Orleans has published 26 articles and four books in physical chemistry. Dr Maciej Giertych, head of the Department of Genetics at the Institute of Dendrology of the Polish Academy of Sciences, has published 90 papers in scientific journals. Dr Raymond Damadian invented the lifesaving medical advance of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI).19 Dr Raymond Jones was described as one of Australia’s top scientists for his discoveries about the legume Leucaena and bacterial symbiosis with grazing animals, worth millions of dollars per year to Australia.20 Dr Brian Stone has won a record number of awards for excellence in engineering teaching at Australian universities.21 An evolutionist opponent admitted the following about a leading creationist biochemist and debater, Dr Duane Gish:

Duane Gish has very strong scientific credentials. As a biochemist, he has synthesized peptides, compounds intermediate between amino acids and proteins. He has been co-author of a number of outstanding publications in peptide chemistry.22

A number of highly qualified living creationist scientists can be found on the Answers in Genesis website.23 So an oft-repeated charge that no real scientist rejects evolution is completely without foundation. Nevertheless, Teaching about Evolution claims in this Question and Answer section on page 56:

Q: Don’t many scientists reject evolution?

A: No. The scientific consensus around evolution is overwhelming … .

It is regrettable that Teaching about Evolution is not really answering its own question. The actual question should be truthfully answered ‘Yes,’ even though evolution-rejecting scientists are in a minority. The explanation for the answer given would be appropriate (even if highly debatable) if the question were: ‘Is it true that there is no scientific consensus around evolution?’ But truth is not decided by majority vote!

C.S. Lewis also pointed out that even our ability to reason would be called into question if atheistic evolution were true:

If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our thought processes are mere accidents, the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the materialists’ and astronomers’ as well as for anyone else’s. But if their thoughts, i.e., of Materialism and Astronomy are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give a correct account of all the other accidents.24

The limits of science

Science does have its limits. Normal (operational) science deals only with repeatable observable processes in the present. This has indeed been very successful in understanding the world, and has led to many improvements in the quality of life. In contrast, evolution is a speculation about the unobservable and unrepeatable past. Thus the comparison in Teaching about Evolution of disbelief in evolution with disbelief in gravity and heliocentrism is highly misleading. It is also wrong to claim that denying evolution is rejecting the type of science that put men on the moon, although many evolutionary propagandists make such claims. (Actually the man behind the Apollo moon mission was the creationist rocket scientist Wernher von Braun.25)

In dealing with the past, ‘origins science’ can enable us to make educated guesses about origins. It uses the principles of causality (everything that has a beginning has a cause26) and analogy (e.g., we observe that intelligence is needed to generate complex coded information in the present, so we can reasonably assume the same for the past). But the only way we can be really sure about the past is if we have a reliable eyewitness account. Evolutionists claim there is no such account, so their ideas are derived from assumptions about the past. But biblical creationists believe that Genesis is an eyewitness account of the origin of the universe and living organisms. They also believe that there is good evidence for this claim, so they reject the claim that theirs is a blind faith.27

Creationists don’t pretend that any knowledge, science included, can be pursued without presuppositions (i.e., prior religious/philosophical beliefs). Creationists affirm that creation cannot ultimately be divorced from the Bible any more than evolution can ultimately be divorced from its naturalistic starting point that excludes divine creation a priori.

beakerkatt

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