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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:29 pm
Tradition perhaps? I mean for years and years women couldn't go to school, maybe they would just like to keep it that way....I could be off xd :needs sleep:
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:11 am
L eondra I just finished buying all my books, many of them "new and updated", and they do have the singular male (especially Beni Goren books). And I did check the bagrooiot on the net, and they are written that way too. I'm happy that the books your mother works with are written as they are, but it's not all the books, and I'd like it to be. I wasn't suggesting that the best option is to make pink and blue slips, as I said, it's ridiculous, but if the Ministry of Education refuses to do anything about the plural, then they should make another copy in the feminine. I guess it depends on the form. My main problem with all of this is not the actual books, but the fact that it blends into the language and women sart talking about themselves and other women purely in the male form. I guess that's because Beni Goren doesn't really come up with new editions anymore, and perhaps this rule only applies to new books. Yeah, some girls do that. I see no reason why they should.
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:34 pm
Hermonie Urameshi Kokoroki Hermonie Urameshi  I don't really pay attention to things like that. In Japanese I actually use the guys' way of saying 'I' instead of the girls. I grew up around boys most of the time and most of the friends I ever had were all boys so I tend to like to do things like boys do.  thats the exact opposite with me What do ya mean?  I use the women's speech pattern then the boys I grew up with a lot of friends that were girls
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:23 am
So the language has no neutral gender?
Well, short of creating a new gender, wouldn't it be easier to simply drop one of the genders and keep the other?
I'm not saying that's what is actually going on here, but you could take it in that way.
But then of course, there are different views on feminism, those who would make such distinctions between males and females, and those who would simply simply compress all into one. I'm more of the compresser.
In English we have the words Actor and Actress, but I never use Actress; what's the point? There's no need for the distinction, it only further perpetuates a segregation of the sexes, small though it is.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:26 am
WellzY So the language has no neutral gender? Not in the singular form, no. It's like the English "she", "he" and "they". There's no neutral there either, just a plural. There is "one" or "a person" in English, but in Hebrew even that is either feminine or masculine when you're not generalizing. Quote: Well, short of creating a new gender, wouldn't it be easier to simply drop one of the genders and keep the other? No, because that would be discrimination, as you're not appealing only to one gender. There is a rather simple solution, which is to use the plural conjugation, and Fritz says that it is being done, but it's not done in all of the textbooks and not in the bagrooiot (the Israeli equivalent of the SATs/ACTs.) Quote: But then of course, there are different views on feminism, those who would make such distinctions between males and females, and those who would simply simply compress all into one. I'm more of the compresser. The problem is that you can't compress all into one in the singular form of Hebrew because it is grammatically incorrect and causes women (who are usually the compressed) to be ignored most of the time. Quote: In English we have the words Actor and Actress, but I never use Actress; what's the point? There's no need for the distinction, it only further perpetuates a segregation of the sexes, small though it is. The segregation of the sexes and how big it is is a different discussion for a different time. But as for Actress, I do use it because it means that there is a woman there, not a man. there's an important distinction to be made between continued segregation by means of language and giving women the respect they deserve. The title actor means male actor, and by definition, excludes women, so using it on a woman or a group pf women, is, in my opinion, not only insulting (because they are not men with vaginas, they are women), it is also incorrect by most dictionary definitions.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:13 am
I would like to point out that although in Israeli Hebrew the plural's the same, originally there was a difference between feminine and masculine in the plural form.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:35 am
Kokoroki Hermonie Urameshi Kokoroki Hermonie Urameshi  I don't really pay attention to things like that. In Japanese I actually use the guys' way of saying 'I' instead of the girls. I grew up around boys most of the time and most of the friends I ever had were all boys so I tend to like to do things like boys do.  thats the exact opposite with me What do ya mean?  I use the women's speech pattern then the boys I grew up with a lot of friends that were girls lol There's only 11 girls I can remember being friends with. And like 20-30 who were boys. lol Yeah, most of my friends were boys. lol
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:02 am
F. Fritzi I would like to point out that although in Israeli Hebrew the plural's the same, originally there was a difference between feminine and masculine in the plural form. Only if you are addressing them in segregated groups, I think. Or I may be wrong. If a male is in a group of women, then it is immediately male plural, isn't it? Which is what would make it grammatically correct to address all the books like that.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:03 am
L eondra F. Fritzi I would like to point out that although in Israeli Hebrew the plural's the same, originally there was a difference between feminine and masculine in the plural form. Only if you are addressing them in segregated groups, I think. Or I may be wrong. If a male is in a group of women, then it is immediately male plural, isn't it? Which is what would make it grammatically correct to address all the books like that. I wasn't being distinctive enough. sweatdrop Just some forms have completely vanished - 1st person plural female in the future tense (×™×›×ª×‘×•× ×”) and 1st person plural female in the imperative tense (×›×ª×‘×•× ×”). It sounds kind of archaic, and most people don't even write like that anymore. It is the correct way to say it, though. I've never heard a specific rule about the way you should address groups. People make up lots of rules but I don't think it really matters, gramatically.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:11 pm
I like how the Skandinavisk languages refer to both feminine and masculine as common gender that way it doesn't focus on either male or female
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Eccentric Iconoclast Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:51 pm
I found it so much easier to ignore grammatical genders when I discovered that the Russian word for "masculinity" is FEMININE and that the word for 'man' is declined like a feminine noun. xd
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:58 pm
Eccentric Iconoclast I found it so much easier to ignore grammatical genders when I discovered that the Russian word for "masculinity" is FEMININE and that the word for 'man' is declined like a feminine noun. xd Hilarious! rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
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Eccentric Iconoclast Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:59 pm
Kokoroki Eccentric Iconoclast I found it so much easier to ignore grammatical genders when I discovered that the Russian word for "masculinity" is FEMININE and that the word for 'man' is declined like a feminine noun. xd Hilarious! rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl PRECISELY my reaction. xD It helps one stop taking grammatical cases seriously at all.
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:12 am
Eccentric Iconoclast I found it so much easier to ignore grammatical genders when I discovered that the Russian word for "masculinity" is FEMININE and that the word for 'man' is declined like a feminine noun. xd I was very surprised to learn that the word "girl" in German has a neuter form.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:29 am
L eondra WellzY In English we have the words Actor and Actress, but I never use Actress; what's the point? There's no need for the distinction, it only further perpetuates a segregation of the sexes, small though it is. The segregation of the sexes and how big it is is a different discussion for a different time. But as for Actress, I do use it because it means that there is a woman there, not a man. there's an important distinction to be made between continued segregation by means of language and giving women the respect they deserve. The title actor means male actor, and by definition, excludes women, so using it on a woman or a group pf women, is, in my opinion, not only insulting (because they are not men with vaginas, they are women), it is also incorrect by most dictionary definitions. Well that is, as I was saying, a matter of debate among Feminist Scolars. Personally, untill the distinction was made to me as a young child, Actor for me meant both a male or a female. It's in the eye of the beholder. But English is inconsistent with this as well. For example, the word Doctor only has the one form (as far as I know anyway), whereas in German, there is a male and a female form. But the social wiring of people to, in most cases, associate doctor with a man in English, is due to, social wiring. If, in Hebrew, you suddenly removed the gender forms over-night, there is still that social correlation of gender to career, and a number of other gendered words I'd imagine, that would be difficult for people to get around, but with time it would simply make no difference. Again in German, there is a female and a male form of vegetarian, but as far as I can tell, there is no social connection between gender and whether you're a vegetarian or not. F. Fritzi -- That's because it uses the deminutive -chen which in German always changes the word into a neutral form. This works with any compound word, as far as I know. The new gender is derived from the end word. The best example I can think of is all the wurts. They're all feminine, because wurst itself is feminine.
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