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 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:34 pm
ochimaru I have this belief that mankind is NOT better than other creatures... whether it be lesser mammals, insects, fish, birds, reptiles or whatever. We are merely another animal on the planet... and regardless of our advanced cognitive skills, we are not as special as we would like to think.. I agree with you...but who is to say that we have advance cognitive skills? Just because other animals do not do things exactly like us, or because they don't speak human, doesn't mean that they are less advanced...unless by that you mean strictly what scientific research has shown us..then maybe I'll go with it. The thing is, you have to look at each task with certain criteria...I mean, look at running perhaps, we are so far less superior than lets say a dog alone! However, other aspects, we may be better in..we have to keep in mind that not every creature is built the same. But anyway..yes I agree with you. We are just another [dumb] anumal in the grand scheme of the universe.
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:44 pm
toshi_braveheart How can animals NOT be better than humans? Even though humans are animals, we make it a damned point to say were not by giving ourselves these fancyful names. We are animals, but very bad ones. We will be the cause of our very distruction. Do you think those squiralls are trying to blow the hell out of Iraq? Hell no. Are those bears going around shooting people and robbing banks? No. We are our own downfall, yet, for however smart we say we are, we're pretty damn stupid. Now, to go on your main post and topic Ochimaru. 'Do you kill a creature or let it live?' It is inhumane to kill a human who is in massive pain, but we drain the blood from old horses to make glue. To smash the brains in of the cows to get beef. We slaughter pigs to get pork, yet putting a person out of misery, such as cancer, its a criminal offence. Animals prey on older or injured animals because they are easy to get. We kill chained animals and hunt them down, to mount or eat them. And not even all of their meat. Where wolves and other scavengers eat ALL of it, we eat what? A leg? No, throw that heart out, its not edable, even though you can cook it. We, as humans, are the main cause of our very killings. It is our fault that we have an ozone hole and we are going to drown. And it will inevitably be our fault that the nuclear bomb blows up half of our world. We are the assholes of earth. Keep in mind that there ARE societies that DO eat ALL and I mean ALL of the animals...some will even eat the brain, not because it is food, but they believe that your intelligence with increase, that you possibly get some of the creature's intelligence or something. Of course, that has been studied. I believe they found that their brains got a tiny bit 'better', but it was really an insignificant amount, and they were surprised that they weren't getting sic and dying. I really wish I could remember what exactly it was....darnit..I guess consider this entry inadmissable...unless I can somehow get the thing I found that information at....darnit. confused
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:47 pm
Raeden Michelle toshi_braveheart How can animals NOT be better than humans? Even though humans are animals, we make it a damned point to say were not by giving ourselves these fancyful names. We are animals, but very bad ones. We will be the cause of our very distruction. Do you think those squiralls are trying to blow the hell out of Iraq? Hell no. Are those bears going around shooting people and robbing banks? No. We are our own downfall, yet, for however smart we say we are, we're pretty damn stupid. Now, to go on your main post and topic Ochimaru. 'Do you kill a creature or let it live?' It is inhumane to kill a human who is in massive pain, but we drain the blood from old horses to make glue. To smash the brains in of the cows to get beef. We slaughter pigs to get pork, yet putting a person out of misery, such as cancer, its a criminal offence. Animals prey on older or injured animals because they are easy to get. We kill chained animals and hunt them down, to mount or eat them. And not even all of their meat. Where wolves and other scavengers eat ALL of it, we eat what? A leg? No, throw that heart out, its not edable, even though you can cook it. We, as humans, are the main cause of our very killings. It is our fault that we have an ozone hole and we are going to drown. And it will inevitably be our fault that the nuclear bomb blows up half of our world. We are the assholes of earth. Keep in mind that there ARE societies that DO eat ALL and I mean ALL of the animals...some will even eat the brain, not because it is food, but they believe that your intelligence with increase, that you possibly get some of the creature's intelligence or something. Of course, that has been studied. I believe they found that their brains got a tiny bit 'better', but it was really an insignificant amount, and they were surprised that they weren't getting sic and dying. I really wish I could remember what exactly it was....darnit..I guess consider this entry inadmissable...unless I can somehow get the thing I found that information at....darnit. confused A tribe ate the brains of their dead. It was always the females who ate the brains after they died. They got massivly sick with something they had no idea what it was. They thought another tribe were casting spells on them. Anyway, everything you say is besides the point. I'm talking a majority of people. I would much rather live in the wild, with like, a I don't know, cloth tent and home-made bows and arrows to hunt for food. But you aviod my point when I say That we are our own downfall. Does that mean you agree?
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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:57 am
We are of lesser importance than the things which we need to live. Soy, corn, rice and livestock lord over us, though we kill them in droves.
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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:50 am
No, I agree very much that we are a downfall. And I agree with you, I too would enjoy living outdoors in a 'home-made' tent with my own bows and such. Honestly, I doubt that I could truly live that way for the rest of my life, but I would still enjoy it.
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:34 am
Earthgod We are of lesser importance than the things which we need to live. Soy, corn, rice and livestock lord over us, though we kill them in droves. Technically, soy, corn, rice, etc., lord over us because we need them to live. If they were sentient...
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:11 am
Cougar Draven Earthgod We are of lesser importance than the things which we need to live. Soy, corn, rice and livestock lord over us, though we kill them in droves. Technically, soy, corn, rice, etc., lord over us because we need them to live. If they were sentient... And what if they are? Last time I checked, there is no objective measure of 'sentience' nor can sentience be proven in a fellow human being. Assumed, yes. Proven? Eeeh...
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:16 pm
Starlock Cougar Draven Earthgod We are of lesser importance than the things which we need to live. Soy, corn, rice and livestock lord over us, though we kill them in droves. Technically, soy, corn, rice, etc., lord over us because we need them to live. If they were sentient... And what if they are? Last time I checked, there is no objective measure of 'sentience' nor can sentience be proven in a fellow human being. Assumed, yes. Proven? Eeeh... Then they are the only organism that cares if another kills and consumes great numbers of their population.
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:12 am
ochimaru I have this belief that mankind is NOT better than other creatures... whether it be lesser mammals, insects, fish, birds, reptiles or whatever. We are merely another animal on the planet... and regardless of our advanced cognitive skills, we are not as special as we would like to think. This debate really boils down to one thing for me... when you have the choice to kill a creature or let it live... such as an insect or small animal... will you kill it without remorse? Personally, I only have a vendetta against centipedes, mosquitos and weavils. If I encounter these 3 creatures, I will kill on the spot. But if I encounter any other creature, I will do my best to relocate it or scare it off. Although, if my safety is endangered, that is a whole different matter. My point is this... the world does NOT revolve around us... and eventually we will either kill ourselves off or abandon the planet... and the Earth will get along just fine without us. I imagine we are like mosquitos to the earth. Annoying pests... but mostly harmless. And of course, there is the common though that "I am human, therefore I must believe that my kind is superior."
That's too angsty to be philosophy, you're not thinking rationally anywhere.
"We are merely another animal on the planet... and regardless of our advanced cognitive skills, we are not as special as we would like to think."
Our cognitive skills are supreme within the animal kingdom, and are supreme by such a margin that we can control the climate and re-seal holes in the ozone layer. So to make a judgement 'regardless' of that factor is rather unwise.
We may not be as special as we think, but that doesn't mean we're not the most important species on the planet.
"This debate really boils down to one thing for me... when you have the choice to kill a creature or let it live... such as an insect or small animal... will you kill it without remorse?"
At no point in the debate does it come close to, let alone boil down to, an issue like that.
"My point is this... the world does NOT revolve around us..."
No, it doesn't. It revolves around it's axis at a precise and measurable speed from which we can mathematically say how fast every square mile of the earth is travelling at any given time. This is why we are superior.
Animals are incapable even of knowing that it moves.
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:14 am
The Phoenix Rises Again No, we just make more s**t. In fact, making tools to make tools is the only thing that defines us from animals.
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:16 am
ochimaru ... And I bet nearly every tool we make is to destroy something with.
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:17 am
Cirendia ochimaru I imagine we are like mosquitos to the earth. Annoying pests... but mostly harmless. I would have to disagree on that statement. I believe we are like mosquitoes with the West Nile Virus on the earth, because we pollute, destroy, and otherwise maim the earth like a disease would do to our bodies. Animals do not make tools because their bodies are their tools-we have to make tools because we have forgotten how to change our bodies to adapt to the world around us. Look at us compared to all of the animals of the earth-we developed brains in order to survive instead of claws, night eyes, or thick shaggy fur; we have abused that power of inginuity that the brain has given us by creating more things that destroy the earth. No, I do not like being human. I would like to be a cat, big or small.
Braincells seem wasted on you. rolleyes
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:22 am
Starlock "Better" is a subjectively evaluative judgement. It is not something that can be quantified unless you specify a category. In short, better HOW and in what WAY is what should be asked here. Otherwise, there is no universally "better" anything whether your talking about a living organism or not. Speaking just of living organisms, however, how well something suits an organism depends entirely on the context of the surrounding environment. Evolution doesn't work in terms of "betterness" in a vacuum, but "betterness" in terms of the environment. As such, Nature doesn't give a damn if you happen to be a valedictorian computer programer if you're thrust onto a deserted island without a source of fresh water. It's all about context. It's ALL about context...
We can dive deeper than all fish, fly higher and faster than all birds, travel more quickly than all animals anywhere, communicate more quickly and in more detail than even those most advanced primates...added to which our power and brain capacity gives us an undisputed position of supremacy from which we can save or destroy any species we choose.
What other animal could found the Frozen Ark Project or the Svalbard Global Seed Vault?
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:26 am
Raeden Michelle ochimaru I have this belief that mankind is NOT better than other creatures... whether it be lesser mammals, insects, fish, birds, reptiles or whatever. We are merely another animal on the planet... and regardless of our advanced cognitive skills, we are not as special as we would like to think.. I agree with you...but who is to say that we have advance cognitive skills? Just because other animals do not do things exactly like us, or because they don't speak human, doesn't mean that they are less advanced...unless by that you mean strictly what scientific research has shown us..then maybe I'll go with it. The thing is, you have to look at each task with certain criteria...I mean, look at running perhaps, we are so far less superior than lets say a dog alone! However, other aspects, we may be better in..we have to keep in mind that not every creature is built the same. But anyway..yes I agree with you. We are just another [dumb] anumal in the grand scheme of the universe.
Being out-run by a dog makes it better at running, not better at going places fast, and not cognitively superior.
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:28 am
Raeden Michelle Keep in mind that there ARE societies that DO eat ALL and I mean ALL of the animals...some will even eat the brain, not because it is food, but they believe that your intelligence with increase, that you possibly get some of the creature's intelligence or something. Of course, that has been studied. I believe they found that their brains got a tiny bit 'better', but it was really an insignificant amount, and they were surprised that they weren't getting sic and dying. I really wish I could remember what exactly it was....darnit..I guess consider this entry inadmissable...unless I can somehow get the thing I found that information at....darnit. confused
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