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The tone that you set as an author, how you come across. There's a reason that CGrascal and Orlan "Colonel Ray Mustang" Drake get trolled and I (Spider "Oni" Jerusalem) do not. My thread is not incendiary in it's wording, rather it is humorous and encouraging in nature, and I have included a means for extending the discussion into the first post in the form of a short questionaire for first time readers to fill out. I didn't come out and say "BAKA! YAOI isn't gay!", probably because I'm somewhat detached from the fandom. If you want the "truth" come to me. If you want debate, visit LilyChan and CGrascal. I have my niche and they have theirs.

I think that CGrascal has said some important things in his own way, chiefly that YAOI is a fad. The problem is that there's a distorted and even multiple different interpretations of what a "fad" is. To me, it's sustainable mainstream appeal. YAOI will not cease to exist in five or ten years, but I do think that there will be a marked decline in following once the market is saturated and the new big thing happens. I see the same thing happening with anime. In my opinion, YAOI became popular in North America because gay is trendy right now. Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, Will and Grace, and everything else exploiting "gay culture" these days.

LilyChan's thread targets the pre-teens/teens who are obnoxious in their fandom as not being genuine fans because they only read/watch the most mainstream BL like Gravitation, without any knowledge of what YAOI really is, and this large demographic is what I'm banking my prediction of declining mainstream appeal on. Teen girls are not a demographic that you can tap easily for an extended period of time, they're a quick way to a quick buck while the trend lasts. An economic tsunami. When the tsunami is gone, there is still water, but far less of it. The hardcore fanbase will remain and the trendhoppers will move on. It happened to comic books when the 90's boom ended, and it will happen to manga and BL/YAOI as well.

When that day comes, The Unholy YAOI Trinity will cease to serve a purpose.



Well I think that you need to extend the terminology beyond the term "rant" to "Ivory Tower Intellectualism", because wether the thread are incendiary or not they all seek to sway the unwashed masses in one way or another. Either that or "Capital M Message Threads".

I think that these threads really are necessary, because A/M/C fandom in general is plagued by several thousand different instances of misinformation and disinformation. Each and every one of us has fallen prey to or experienced the business end of at least one of them. If done correctly, these threads serve to enlighten and inform the "unwashed masses". If done incorrectly, it polarizes the "unwashed masses" against the "Ivory Tower Intellectuals".

I'm arrogant enough to think that my thread is very necessary because of the massive amount of misinformation and assumptions surrounding all gay themed anime and manga. That and the overwhelmingly positive reaction that I've garnered.

Was Orlan's thread about banning anime necessary? I think it was, in that it taught the lesson that you shouldn't take everything you read at face value, you should read everything you're instructed to, and the series descriptions were just too funny. Unfortunately, the reactions that he got (which were likely unavoidable) removed it's ability to inform and teach an important object lesson.

Is Kyle's thread about Goku versus Superman necessary? Yes, it really is. If his thread disappeared completely, how many stupid one page repeats of it would come slithering back? Several. I think the lesson in that thread is that popularity isn't everything. The most dedicated DBZ fans that post in that thread are "Superman supporters", in that while they may prefer Goku, they recognize that he would not win. The superiority of one specific character over another does not and should not validate or invalidate the creative endeavors of an entire country.



No, not at all. I considered calling my thread "YAOI isnt Gay", but just imagine what responce that would have gotten. Misleading titles only increase the chance of angry responces, which severly shorten the lifespan of a thread.



No, not at all. The popularity of that phrase is indicative of a new trend of thesis based discussion threads in AMC that necessitate a thourough reading of the first post for the reader to properly comprehend and participate in the discussion. What the hell can you say to my thread without reading the first post?

It's also a valuable insurance policy. If someone comes raging in with a completely distorted view of what the topic is, or is badly misinformed you can simply extend your index finger in the general direction of the first post.

In Extended Discussion, there exists the assumption among the majority of it's regulars that the point of the discussion and the information necessary to participate in the discussion are located in the first post of the thread. This is not common practice in AMC, and so this adapting of the ED model into AMC will necessitate warnings, disclaimers, and directions until they become a feature of the landscape. Furthermore, I update my first post on a monthly or bimonthly basis because I inevidably find something in need of revising.





Thank you, domo agriato, gracias, danke, merci.

Sure you will Phoe.
-_-;;; I was gone most of today and now I'm arguing with my mentor! scream

I'm engaging in mule shennanigans, but oh well it happens.



Indeed, and I think that many people are all too ready to meet that same hostile attitude with swords held high. It shouldn't be a question of if you as an author can handle it, but rather if it's appropriate for Gaia. What is it doing to the community and your reputation?



Which is a failure on his part to have not properly defined what constitutes a fad.



Well I really wanted to open it up so that my responce wouldn't be limited to ragging on the people that openly rant for reaping what they sow and getting absolutely nowhere with it. I probably sound arrogant saying that, but it's true. Getting people pissed off in this way isn't productive. When I quote Kyle_Rayner as saying "Get Angry," I don't mean go out there and flame someone, I mean get passionate in something and channel that anger into doing something productive about it. Ranting is rarely productive. Threads that use that same format in a more friendly and open manner are frequently productive.



Well of course that could bring into question who is an ITI and who isn't, and all I will say on the matter is that if you have to ask, you aren't. Clearly anyone with a membership here or the Anti Guild or the LOSS are, and that's who I'm talking about. I'm thinking now that people have to ask themselves if they should do it more than if they can do it. Do you want to piss people off or do you want to educate them? Would you listen to a teacher that cussed you out?



I don't think it will ever be appropriate for Gaia because the maturity level of the membership is unlikely to skyrocket overnight. No one can pretend that a large segment of the Gaian population are in fact that much targeted lowest common denominator that WJ referred to. On a forum with a higher average age, it would have been far more appropriate. What's necessary and what's appropriate don't necessarily constitute the same thing. Wheeee paradoxes.



I think that's pretty rhetorical. blaugh



It shouldn't be, but it is if the entire basis for discussion is the first post or if the title could be somehow misconstrued and people still feel the need to skip to the end without determining what the thread is about. Well I'm not sure why I should feel the need to say any more to someone who's unwilling to even read my thesis. It's stupid and it's insulting.

Indeed, and I wouldn't try to compete with you on that one. blaugh



A crime of passion is still a crime, yes?



True, and you can also debate without flaming. Scary but true.




VICTOLY! scream heart



I think probably the best way to explain it is that you're more likely to find intellectually inclined people there, or that if you are an ITI you are likely there, but the reverse is not necessarily true. As for being better than everyone else, I don't need a guild to know that. blaugh




I'm not saying that you can't proclaim your fandom, what I'm saying is that your rights end where your fist meets my face. I don't go into threads discussing anime or manga that I don't like because it's pointless. There are places I hang out and have fun just like anyone else, but when I start a thread for a serious discussion I'd like it to be taken as such. I also let people seek me out. I don't run around the YAOI threads clubbing people and dragging them to "the truth", knowledge is something you earn.




I can see your point, and to be honest I haven't seen much of any reference to the first post in Kyle's thread in quite a while. People seem more content to use talking points.

Word.



I think that this comes from my experiences in the Politics subforum where if you flame you get zero respect.



Which is why I like hiding out in my guilds alot.



Behind every great man...



Exactly, but if you don't want to learn don't come to me saying that. Just go somewhere else. xp




Maybe we're just evolving faster in that thread because we see so much action and are very, very aware of the mortality of the thread. I think for a long time we did take the existence of the thread for granted, which led to the unfortunate death of the first venerable incarnation. I don't think anyone wants a mark 4.

I'm with you on that, but it's a reality of the demographic.


More like "Ways to Destroy Spider" guild. All authority is out to get me. scream



Well I don't mind that so much as long as they're respectful and whatnot.



I couldn't agree more, but the helpers have done some good work lately.

So yeah, we really broke that one down point by point. Never had a more productive chat on this site.

Start a new thread in AMC perhaps?