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TaeKyon

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:02 am


degenerate316
TaeKyon

You know how to throw punches? Good for you. You can beat another martial artist by taking them out of their game? Are we supposed to be impressed? Why don't you challenge Michael Jordan to a match of Darts; the effect would be comparably the same.


Calm down. Perhaps she's good at Olympic TKD, but the fact that she never used her hands to block nor punch did hurt her chances in that particular competition where blocking and punching are encouraged. Because of the way the matches are set up, a person who can block and punch will have the upper hand against someone who just uses kicks and doesn't use their hands much. She should've known that she would've been taking herself out of her own game and putting herself into a completely new one when she agreed to partake in that show. She got what she deserved.


I agree. I was merely explaining the reasoning behind why her lack of punches and defense seemed so irrational.

Quote:
This all just comes back to my belief that these sports sparring rules and things make you a weaker fighter and teaches bad habits. I realy don't like how they break up people after they score a point in most cases and I don't like the rules on strikes to the face and things like that it just bugs me. You should sparr like it is a real fight just with safer techniques all sparring competitions look the same to me.


To assume all sparring competitions look the same is quite ignorant. The Final Fu rules of sparring are a joke and I will not address them here since that would be off topic. The sparring you seem to refer to is more akin to Karate than TKD since most often than not, WTF Olympic style TKD is usually the form most synonymous with TKD as it is the most recognized style of TKD. In which case, fighters aren't broken up and reset after each point and strikes (kicks) to the head are allowed and encouraged.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:05 am


I have seen it all before I know the rules are different and I don't have much problems with some of them. What I am saying is a lot of what I have seen is bad. So much of it that I can't stand it they act like they can fight but I know that they don't have a clue. I can't stand rules I understand not hiting some one in a place that may cause an injury that could realy hurt some one like poking someone in the eye or snaping there leg but not this no hiting to the face and things like that. I have seen people do thing in sparring matches that you just don't do in a fight and that bothers me.

I don't assume any thing its just every where I look I see crap for the most part I don't feel that way about some of them. If its realistic or close I don't mind as much.

Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain


TaeKyon

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:09 am


Honestly I'm not sure how to respond as your comments toward sport styled sparring are so vague and generalized. As I have previously pointed out, your statements for the most part don't apply to the majority of TKD. Please clarify what it is you have against WTF TKD style sparring and I'll reply. As for now, I will refute the few argumentative points you have listed as if they applied to TKD.

Wolf3001
What I am saying is a lot of what I have seen is bad. So much of it that I can't stand it they act like they can fight but I know that they don't have a clue.


I don't think most WTF TKD athletes are "acting" like they can fight or have many illusions that sports competition is some sort of martial arts fight to the death. They're athletes who train to compete at a sport, they don't need a clue on self defense cus it's not applicable to their sports competition. If you ask me, the people who "act" like they can fight but "don't have a clue" are the majority of the posters in this guild's "Real Life Situations" thread who are either untested or don't train in a martial art that stresses alive training.

Wolf3001
I can't stand rules I understand not hiting some one in a place that may cause an injury that could realy hurt some one like poking someone in the eye or snaping there leg but not this no hiting to the face and things like that.


In WTF TKD, you can kick to the areas covered by the headgear: the sides of the face and the top of the face, these are valid enough targets on the face that it's unnecessary to risk direct injury to the facial features. YOU CAN HIT to the face, as I mentioned LAST TIME I POSTED, did you not read it? Here, let me quote myself:

Taekyon
The sparring you seem to refer to is more akin to Karate than TKD since most often than not, WTF Olympic style TKD is usually the form most synonymous with TKD as it is the most recognized style of TKD. In which case, fighters aren't broken up and reset after each point and strikes (kicks) to the head are allowed and encouraged.


Furthermore:

Wolf3001
I have seen people do thing in sparring matches that you just don't do in a fight and that bothers me.


That's because sports competition is NOT a "real fight." It's ludicrous to consider WTF TKD sport sparring as inferior because it's not applicable to a different situation. You wouldn't insult Soccer because it's not applicable to Kickboxing, on the basis that they share the slight similarity of predominant use of the leg, so why would suggesting martial arts sport sparring being inferior because it's not applicable to "the str33tz" on the basis that they share the slight similarity of a "fighting" aspect. As I have said in the other thread, street fighting is not exactly martial arts fighting.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:18 pm


Quote:
Ok. Here we go again. (Thanks once more, Miguksaram, for insight into the history of TKD)

First off, we know that everyone has been telling us Tae Kwon Do/Taekwondo/whateverthehellspellingyouwant is comprised of Subahk (or soobakdo) and Taekyon. Subahk, which is claimed to have come first, emphasized the use of the hands and head more than the feet. Taekkyon, which appears to have come later, emphasized to a greater extent the use of the feet.

NOW, there is no hard core evidence about the existence of Subahk as an original Korean martial art.

Rebuttal: There are cave drawings depicting people in a Subahk stance.

Fact: There has been no known official interpretation of those drawings. There have only been theories laid down by those who wish to see what they want, still no proof. The archieologists that discovered the paintings did not specify what was depicted. However, the 10th degree grand masters that everyone seems to love jumped up and claimed them as Subahk stances. Pretty convient.

Fact: Taekkyon did indeed exist prior to the Silla dynasty, but by the time TKD was around, very little was known and what remained was merely a folk game more than a martial art. Sort of like what Capeoria is today (but different). Here is what Taekkyon looks like TODAY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3nmjKvOADo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3UWA-yRYn4
The first clip has Chris Crudeli in it, so you're not required to listen to his nutcrunching. Just look at the Taekkyon demos. The second is a TKD practioner going up against a Taekkyon practioner. The one in red pants is the Taekkyon guy. And it looks pretty staged to me.

Fact: The only thing TKD has taken from Taekkyon is part of it's name. The original kwans that made up TKD drew from Shotokan karate. The only exceptions was Jidokwan which drew most of it's techniques from Shudokan karate, and Moodukkwan which had influence from Chuan'fa (Kempo), but still draws majority from Shotokan. Taekkyon was only "rediscovered" after the Korean war. So all these Grandmasters who keep claiming to have studied it, don't have proof of these lessons.

*SIDENOTE* The Taekkyon organization of Korea say that TKD and Taekkyon are 2 totally different systems with nothing in common.

Fact: Let's look at the imigration of the mongolian tribes, which Koreans are derived from. The tribes migrated from Nothern China into Korea, bringing with them their culture as well as their fighting methods. The only surviving manual of any ancient Korean fighting methods is the Mooyedobotongji. This is the only documented book that depicts what the military used, which, was in fact developed by Chinese Generals. So in essence, Subahk, if it exisited and Taekkyon are derived from Chinese military fighting systems.

Rebuttal: There were tribal arts that were practiced before Chinese military were teaching Korean military.

We are talking about an actual combative system where people are trained in certian skills in a systematic way in which to fight. We aren't talking about a bunch of nomadic people, who picked up a spear and started chucking at other people for defense. Subahk would be a system of fighting, which again leads to the fact that it would something derived from Chinese based miltary systems. If there are tribal systems of fighting where are the documents of proof?

Rebuttal: The Japanese occupation burned all the Korean literature and wiped out their identities.

The Japanese occupied the majority of the major cities of Korea and attempted to wipe out Korean culture in its entirety. However, the Japanese did not occupy small farm towns or mountain villages. Many of these people never had to deal with the Japanese at all. Their books were not burned and their identities were not wiped out. For the most part these were the "keepers" if you will of the Korean culture. But through all of this, none of them had any documents or manuals on any systematic Korean martial art such as Subahk or Taekkyon or Kuk sul or Hwarangdo, etc.

*SIDENOTE* Hwarangdo was more of a boyscout thing for the royal youth to learn Swordsmanship, Calligraphy ect. Not to mention that Homosexuality was prevalient inside of it. I mean, the name alone gives off gaywaves...Flowering Manhood? Brokeback please.

Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain


Mangafairy

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:24 am


Wolf3001 Wrote:
What I am saying is a lot of what I have seen is bad. So much of it that I can't stand it they act like they can fight but I know that they don't have a clue.


I can sympathise with you, but, they can still fight and win against a common person, but against a traditional/ combative martial-artist? HELL NO! The guy who I spoke about earlier always introduces himself as The Karate Kid, Jackie Chan and Black Belt Paul from friends. But the first one insults me, I do Budokan Karate, known for being hard to grade in, he got black-belt in THREE years.

That makes me and other martial-artists I know consider it a bit of a joke. I saw them at a fair where they were advertising. OMFG! To get black-belt you have to know 9 series and the history of TKD! I know it and OMG!!! 9 SERIES!!!!

My bro has done it for 9 years and is only recently ready to do his black-belt grading!!!!

Okay...rant over.... biggrin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:09 pm


but my teacher says that i need good stamina so i can fight and run away if needed dramallama

diseased robot


Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:53 am


You can never have to much stamina me I don't have enough I am big to I am close to 6 foot tall and I weigh 230lbs. I don't like to run if attacked I don't play nice I have come close to realy hurting people in the past because they wouldent back off. I never plan to run im not good at it so I rely on my strength and size pluss I intimidate most people. I have ran from fights before not many though and it usually happend any way. In my younger days in grade school I pulled knives on people for talking s**t I did crazy stuff that got me in some truble. I hated to back down from fights and I couldent stand people saying crap acting tough but only when they had others around to jump you.

Lucky for me I never got into a real bad situation I have met people who have been stabbed and shot these guys are younger than me but realy dumb they seem to ask for it. I learnd long ago to stay away from truble as best I could as the saying goes live by the sword die by the sword.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:38 am


Angel_Abaddon
Dude... Tae Kwon Do began from the art of Taekkyon and was heavily influenced by Karate. It arguably only became a distinct martial art after is was unified and became a sport


Yeah that's true. And it became an olympic sport at the Sydney olympics in the year 2000. And this doesn't have anything to do with the history, but I'm a blackbelt.

xXmusicrox214Xx


Wolf Nightshade
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:44 pm


This artical talks about Korean martial arts.
http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=5282091
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:35 am


I do TKD and my mom does kickboxing and she personally thinks I should do karate first cuz TKD does alot of highkicks and stuff, and personally I think that my sensei isn't just showing off cuz he was in the Kenya Air force stuff and yeah but when we do disarms since me and this lady are the oldest in the class were demonstrations and lemme tell you he's almost merciless with disarms and other things like that especially with your wrist. *nods* theres alot of places where I live that are like "USA TaeKwonDo" and personally I think those are the ones that are teaching there students crap no offense to anyone

Kiba_Inu


iamagiraffe

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:46 pm


I'm not going to say anything bad about Tae Kwon Do, one of my instructors in my Hap Ki Do school is a former Tae Kwon Do-ist. He is a good instructor because he combinds the "hard" teaching style of his instructor from TKD and apply it to push a few of the students (such as myself) to do better. Hap Ki Do is actually a child of Tae Kwon Do and Ai Ki Jujitsu. I really admire the kicking ability of TKD and some of the stuff that one can accomplish while training in TKD. However at the same time I really don't like the fact that some schools are like McDojangs. Spitting out black belts and thinking that is the end of their training and they are now "masters" of TKD. That is the only thing I have against some schools, but you'll get that everywhere.
Quote:
The effectiveness of a martial art is measured by the skill of the average practitioner, not by the most badass fighter at the top of the tree.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:51 pm


Now that I remembered it... there is one thing that does heat my cup of tea... Tae Kwon Do schools that insiste on calling the instructors Sensei. Tae Kwon Do is a korean martial art. an instructor/teacher in korean is Sabumnim... Sensei is japanese... kata is japanese for forms, hyums is korean for forms. some little things like that make me thing that it isn't true Tae Kwon Do.

iamagiraffe


The Draken

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:31 am


Yes. Traditional TKD owns Olympic Style TKD. I personally don't like the latter.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:33 am


KuroiRyuu04
Now that I remembered it... there is one thing that does heat my cup of tea... Tae Kwon Do schools that insiste on calling the instructors Sensei. Tae Kwon Do is a korean martial art. an instructor/teacher in korean is Sabumnim... Sensei is japanese... kata is japanese for forms, hyums is korean for forms. some little things like that make me thing that it isn't true Tae Kwon Do.


We don't call our instructor "sensei" because they aren't a master. We refer to the instructor as either 'sir' or 'ma'am'. And you're right.
Quite honestly, this guild is making me wanting to stop doing TKD and find a different art. I dunno.

The Draken


Kiba_Inu

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:36 pm


I do TKD and I like it no matter what anybody says, I might also start doing Karate or something like dat, my mom could teach me Karate if she wanted cuz that was the MA she did for 9 years biggrin , but yeah I call my instructor "Sir" or "Ma'am", plus since I live in the country I highly doubt that any of them care what we say in our promise thingies at the beginning.
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The United Martial Artists Guild

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