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JoVo

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:52 am


[Q]
JoVo- I've asked MANY people. They say what I believe in they agree with, because it "Makes sense", but otherwise, it's not from anything... Although I think someone said some of it was from the Koran(sp). But they never elaborated when I asked. confused


I bet you I can classify it. 3nodding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:25 pm


That means I have to type it all up again. Grr. I should just like, make a website for it or something.

Journal entry 1

All this time, I've been thinking that God was a man, and that the Devil was a man. Or atleast, Man in some way. Even though I believe there's no true way to tell whether they exist or not... If they do exist, I knew they'd be basically... just random energy floating about.
But I gave them human characteristics!
I was always like "Well, God, being who he is, would be very selfish and full of himself" and so on.

But BAM! some wierd instant surge of brainstorming informs me that I am thinking in ALL THE WRONG WAYS!
Niether God nor Lucifer can be comprehended in means of our world.
"God" and "Lucifer" are only names given to the force which flows through us all... They are not beings of their own minds, they are forces just liek gravity, with some sort of mathimatical formula to justify them.
Although, I'll admit that formula will be probably just as tricky as the force that's destiny, but "God" and "Devil" are merely names for FORCES, not BEINGS!

If everyone thought of Gravity like they thought of God, then Priests and other things who could contact Gravity would be weighted down much more by force, while sinners would be floating everywhere(Defying the laws of gravity!)

That said, "God" is the force that creates life. Life is brought in, and it lives.
"Devil" is the force that takes life. Once life is lived or created, it must die. So "Lucifer" is the force which takes life.

THAT is why prayers arn't answered! THAT is why people can have so much doubt! THAT is why, regardless of the bible being true or not, "God" is still a FORCE. as is Gravity, as is Devil.

The Devil isn't evil, he is only death. God isn't good, he is only life. Good and evil are perceptions from US, and do not amount to anything. Afterall, everyone's perceptions of good and evil are different. I'd dwelve into that more, but it would be a really long essay.

Think of it as a pond.
The things floating on the top of the pond, plants, leaves, are us. Life.
The things at the bottom of the pond, and under the water, are Death, Lucifer, Devil.
All the air above the pond is God. Giver of Life.

Now you've probably got questions.
.
.
.

No one can live forever. Immortality is just bogus.
You can't have God without the Devil, you can't have Life without the Death.
How would it be if everything lived forever? If all humans born lived and prospered? If every animal and plant and bug never passed on?
How would eat if we could not kill a cow, or sow a seed? Would we just live a life of never ending pain of hunger?
Not to mention the overcrowding if no one and nothing died. The vines that feed off living trees would probably not even exist! And even if they did, then almost every tree would have a vine sucking the life out of it, but never dying.
Think of viruses, Small Pox! If the diesese can never die, how can we make antidotes and cure ourselves? Sure, the injection is made of a sick or injured cell of the illness, but that's only to help your immune system kill the other cells.

Every white and red blood cell in our body would live. All of us would have some sort of diesese, and live in agony and never die.

So that is why we have Devil, Death, Lucifer. Balance is important.
Without one, you cannot have the other.
If God, Life didn't exist, then niether would Death, Lucifer, Devil.

God and Lucifer are the sides of the same coin. No matter how it's flipped, both are always there...

God does not house the dead. God only creates, brings forth life.
The Devil houses all the dead. Niether of them are good nor evil. There are two sides-- Life, and death.

God gives life, Devil, Lucifer, takes it.
It's that simple.
Regardless, that doesn't make God good, and it doesn't make Lucifer evil.
Lucifer is just the keeper of the dead, and God is the creator of the living.

All dead are housed in one place, and all spirits that are to be brought to life housed in the other.
If that were explained thoroughly, you would have your Heaven and Hell.

But, to keep that Balance I detailed earlier, you'd have to recycle.
Which means that reincarnation WOULD exist, and be used-- if sparingly.

So, I can sum it up like this:
God = force that brings life.
Devil/ Lucifer = Force that takes life.
Heaven = House of spirits.souls that are to be brought to life
Hell = House of spirits/souls of the dead, who are not yet to be recycled (A landfill, if you will).

Since force and matter cannot be created nor destroyed, it is only obvious that spirits/souls would have to be recycled in order to keep the balance.

.
.
.

Now, you can either think me a blithering idiot, or a genious for thinking this up, but think over what I just said... I know there's a lot of holes in it, but overall, if you think about it, it makes next to perfect sense.

.
.
.
Yes I realize it's 1am. No, I'm not drunk.


Journal entry 2
So now that I've explained the basics of God and Devil, it's time to detail the forces of Fate and Destiny.

Fate and Destiny are syllables, really. Faith is the connecting of all things where every action has been preordained and you have no conrol what you do with your life.
Destiny is the place in which you were pulled to, as in "this was our destiny". For example, you being married, or winning the lottery, or dying in a tragic way.

Fate and Destiny are similiar to the force which is gravity. Think of that pond I explained earlier, where the living are those things flotaing ontop of the pond water, while everything uner water was Dead, and everything above was about to come to life.

Mentally throw a stone in that pond.
The ripples that are caused by the stone are Fate, the movements of the floating objects on the water are destiny. That is cause and effect.
However, notice how the stone sunk to the bottom. Gravity pulled the stone from the air, through the pond, and to the ground underneath.
The stone went, with the aid of gravity, fate, and destiny, from your hand, resembling the power God, to the bottom of the pond, resembling the power of Devil.

This proves that all life if preordanied.

Although, you may not think this.

We fool ourselves that we can make out own choices in life and do what we want, but in fact it is fate that leads us, and destiny that effects other people. We have no way with our own lives, every plant and animal strives for the same thing: Death.

Death is the sole reason why we live. It is the purpose of Life.
Think about this.
If our purpose in life was to, say, become a singer, then thousands upon millions of people would fail in their goal.
What fo the stillborns? The invalids? The mute? The little children who are murdered, every day? If our purpose in life were to be anything other then die, everyone and thing would probably fail in their purpose.

There is only one, unified purpose, for all living things, so that the balance in everything will stay balanced. If people failed in their duty to their own life, they'd have to keep living to leave their "mark" on the world.
And there would be a major tip in the scale.

So, think of fate and destiny as a tree in the ground.
The vast roots of the tree are fate-- the road leading the way to Devil.
And the ground in which the roots are held is Destiny -- The aftereffects of Fate.

Since all is predertermined to some degree, this is why your fortune can be told! Tarot cards will also work, since all forces-- gravity, fate, destiny, god, and devil-- are at work to guide the cards.

Think what you will, but this is how I believe the forces of Fate, gravity, god, and devil come into play.


Then I just stopped writing about it because people were yelling at me... (It was a public journal)

So... -eager for classification-

[Q]

Elder


Shnobes

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:21 pm


JoVo why must you have an intelligent response for everything? Share some of that brain. >.<

Now, if human beings are made to be social creatures such as monkeys or lions (they're sorta social), then why do we have misanthropes who are disgusted with the lives of the people around them and wish nothing to do with human beings, their fellow wo/man?

And a weak atheist? XD I cant wait to tell that to my Christian geography teacher that stuffs Christ down our throats. ^^; 'Have a nice weekend, go to church, and see you on Monday!' ...Actually, Ive been wanting to tell him Im a Satanists..

Hrmm...to shock the poor man because he thinks Im a sweetheart, if a bit eccentric, or to be kind and keep my mouth shut..?

Nietzche? Yes, Ive lived under a rock. ^^; So..yeah..who's that? :: blinks ::
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:27 pm


Shinobi Kitty
JoVo why must you have an intelligent response for everything? Share some of that brain. >.<


God, do I try! xp

Shinobi Kitty
Now, if human beings are made to be social creatures such as monkeys or lions (they're sorta social), then why do we have misanthropes who are disgusted with the lives of the people around them and wish nothing to do with human beings, their fellow wo/man?


Because unlike most social species on this planet--some would say all other social species--, we have reason apart from our genetically-expressed instincts. This allows us to observe our own interactions with others and to formulate new ways of interacting. This is why you don't slit your brother's neck when he tries to take the last slice of pizza, it's why you don't try to seduce your father into having sex with you, and it's why we are so often capable of becoming disgusted with the whole of the human community.

Shinobi Kitty
And a weak atheist? XD I cant wait to tell that to my Christian geography teacher that stuffs Christ down our throats. ^^; 'Have a nice weekend, go to church, and see you on Monday!' ...Actually, Ive been wanting to tell him Im a Satanists..


It's not nice to shock people unnecessarily, you know. wink

Shinobi Kitty
Nietzche? Yes, Ive lived under a rock. ^^; So..yeah..who's that? :: blinks ::


eek

crying

You must find a book on Nietzsche. I don't know your level of expertise on philosophical thought, but if you are just getting started, I'd recommend you read up on him before you hit his larger works, such as Antichrist and Zarathustra. Friedrich Nietzsche. He is a brilliant man, and everyone should be at least marginally versed in what he had to say about man... and the necessity of his overcoming.

JoVo


Kokoryta

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:05 pm


A favorite website of mine about him: http://www.geocities.com/thenietzschechannel/ntexteng.htm
You've got a bunch of his works online and some of his more famous quote as well. 3nodding Should give you a good solid introduction on him.

Some of my favorite quotes are from Beyond Good and Evil:
"Madness is rare in individuals—but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." (Line 156)
and
"The noble soul has reverence for itself." (Line 287)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:05 pm


[Q]


The deification of gravity. Interesting concept. Rather Nietzschean in its satirical criticism of Christian idiocy.

Now, your association of the Devil with death is stark Christianity. I don't see how someone could call it either Islamic or Judaic. Both of those grant some qualities of death to God, and neither recognizes a devil powerful enough to serve as a dichotomy to God.

Balance between God and Devil is similar to Taoism. It's also very Zoroastrian in that you have the two encountering each other. They must both exist for the universe to remain balanced, but they must also both be in conflict with each other, as that is their nature.

Eternal reincarnation. God and Devil the counterparts associated with the removal and reinsertion of spirits into and out of this world. Very common in Eastern religion. Not so uncommon in Western mysticism.

Fate and destiny are syllables? Maybe fate is a syllable, but destiny has at least three. xp

As you've defined them, fate is not a commonly held belief. Only Calvinists, that I know of, believe in fate. Destiny, however, or the Hindu conception of karma, is widely believed in, again, Eastern religion and Western mysticism. To some extent, it is also a cocept held in the revealed religions (i.e. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam).

Your belief in determinism, however, seems speculative. It's interesting, but it has many flaws. The fact that death is the irrevocable end of life does not mean that life has no purpose but death. Science can show us this empirically. Evolutionary science holds that the purpose of life is to propagate, and that the proper adaptation of life to the environment in which it lives will increase its reproductive efficiency. Therefore, from an empirical study of science, the only purpose of life is to reproduce. Then, of course, you have sociology, wherein the prevailing theories hold that lives influence one another. From this we can draw that the ultimate purpose of life is to affect other life.

The mistake you make, I believe, is in assuming that there is a purpose to life. Even if there is a purpose, we cannot simply assume that there is only one purpose. Perhaps life has a variety of purposes, all of which influence one another and change with time. If we further cut life down into miniscule proportions, say, one day of life, the purposes of life can be continual, self-replicating, and infinite. You must consider these things before you draw conclusions based on circumstantial observations.

Ultimately, you believe the following, as I see it:

1) Life and Death are intertwined. They are also opposites in conflict, but neither can be called either good or evil, since good and evil are subjective and, thus, irrelevant concepts.

2) Fate and Destiny, like Life and Death, are the forces through which Life and Death are interconnected. They function throughout Life and lead to its inexorable conclusion, in Death.

3) All things, including consciouness, must exist circularly in order to maintain the universal balance symbolized by the forces of Life and Death. Therefore, consciousness, called spirit, is recycled and returned to Life after its Death. Reincarnation is thus realized.

4) Since all Life ultimately results in Death, via the forces of Fate and Destiny, then the purpose of all Life is Death.

Given all of this, your beliefs appear to differ from nihilism in only two important aspects: (1) The belief that there is such a thing as Fate and Destiny, though this difference appears to be wholly semantic. (2) The belief in reincarnation. Still, this is another difference that does not affect the ultimate outcome of Life, which you still believe is Death.

I feel confident enough to label your religion:

Deterministic Nihilism

I label you "deterministic" because nihilism holds that all of life is a series of random events that ultimately end in death. Until you reject your belief that Fate and Destiny guide Life toward Death, you cannot completely adopt the title of a Nihilist.

Furthermore, I removed mention of God and Devil from my synopsis of your beliefs because they serve no purpose. You're only equating the qualities of Life and Death with the Christian conceptions of God and Devil. While this is useful in a comparitive religious study, it serves little purpose in the singular study of your religious beliefs. In your religion, there is no God in the same sense that any other religion in the world believes in God. To use the word "God" as synonymous with the force you call "Life" will only create more problems than it solves.

JoVo


Vague
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:19 am


Shinobi Kitty
So why do people feel the need for an organized religion?

It seems reassuring to me to have a structure that makes thing simple and clearly defined as to what you're supposed to believe but then I think about it for a moment and re-realize (because it happens so many times) that life isnt simple at all and no one can tell you what to believe.

I just seem to want to have a name to call myself. There are Christians, Agnostics, Aethiest, Satanists, Wiccans, Buddhists...but what am I? I dont feel the need for a superior force in my life, just a belief in morals and whats right and whats wrong.

I wouldn't normally say this, because some people find it insulting, but you sort of said it first, so...
Yes: I believe organized religion is only wholeheartedly embraced by people whose minds are incapable of discovering and organizing their own thoughts on the nature of the Divine. These unquestioning "true believers" are like robots, and I find little value in such blind faith.
Others practice an organized faith which does not encompass their entire spirituality because they are forced to do so by their culture, or because they prefer to worship in a community, with the feeling reassurance that bring, even if the beliefs don't match up that well with their own, or with what they intuitively know about morality.
I believe that a truly great mind shuns institutionalized worship, and instead absorbs information and comes to its own conclusions about sprituality, both abstract and concrete; general and personal. Only then do a few of them perhaps fall in with an established faith which may have many of the same philosophies.

Shinobi Kitty
So what do I say when people ask my religion? I tell them Im 'nothing' and they assume Im an aethiest. Its really hard to explain to people that I dont believe theres a god or do believe theres a god; I just dont care if there is or isnt.

Free will..its my life isnt it? My decision on how Im going to save or damn my soul.

Tell them you're a Kittyist, and you'll get back to them when you know what it all means. wink
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:22 am


[Q]
Although I think someone said some of it was from the Koran(sp). But they never elaborated when I asked. confused

Koran is acceptable, also Quran, I believe.

Vague
Captain


Vague
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:27 am


Shinobi Kitty
JoVo why must you have an intelligent response for everything? Share some of that brain. >.<

Now, if human beings are made to be social creatures such as monkeys or lions (they're sorta social), then why do we have misanthropes who are disgusted with the lives of the people around them and wish nothing to do with human beings, their fellow wo/man?

And a weak atheist? XD I cant wait to tell that to my Christian geography teacher that stuffs Christ down our throats. ^^; 'Have a nice weekend, go to church, and see you on Monday!' ...Actually, Ive been wanting to tell him Im a Satanists..

Hrmm...to shock the poor man because he thinks Im a sweetheart, if a bit eccentric, or to be kind and keep my mouth shut..?

Nietzche? Yes, Ive lived under a rock. ^^; So..yeah..who's that? :: blinks ::

I vote for shock.
What say ye, little gaylings?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:14 am


JoVo

I feel confident enough to label your religion:

Deterministic Nihilism

I label you "deterministic" because nihilism holds that all of life is a series of random events that ultimately end in death. Until you reject your belief that Fate and Destiny guide Life toward Death, you cannot completely adopt the title of a Nihilist.

Furthermore, I removed mention of God and Devil from my synopsis of your beliefs because they serve no purpose. You're only equating the qualities of Life and Death with the Christian conceptions of God and Devil. While this is useful in a comparitive religious study, it serves little purpose in the singular study of your religious beliefs. In your religion, there is no God in the same sense that any other religion in the world believes in God. To use the word "God" as synonymous with the force you call "Life" will only create more problems than it solves.



My respect for you just jumped up knots.

Now I have a name for my religion. Woohoo. Thank you JoVo. I actually had more to say to your catergorization, but somehow my brain decided to flip on itself.

Anyway, about the God-Life syllablization(that a word?). It was in my journal, and since I've been raised Christian, and forced to go to church and such, also living in the bible belt, the "rant"(Written about 2 and a half years a go, I might add) was really an explanation of my beliefs and how they relate to Christians', since I was explaining it to mostly Christian people.

So it made sense ot me at the time.

And.. Uh... Thank you. Now I just have to remember that and tell people that's what I believe in, and probably get a lot of questions. sweatdrop

[Q]

Elder


JoVo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:25 pm


[Q]
Anyway, about the God-Life syllablization(that a word?).


No, it really isn't.

Dictionary.com
syl·la·ble
n.

1. a. A unit of spoken language consisting of a single uninterrupted sound formed by a vowel, diphthong, or syllabic consonant alone, or by any of these sounds preceded, followed, or surrounded by one or more consonants.
b. One or more letters or phonetic symbols written or printed to approximate a spoken syllable.
2. The slightest bit of spoken or written expression: Do not alter a syllable of this message.

syn·o·nym
n.

1. A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language.
2. A word or an expression that serves as a figurative or symbolic substitute for another.
3. Biology. A scientific name of an organism or of a taxonomic group that has been superseded by another name at the same rank.


[Q]
It was in my journal, and since I've been raised Christian, and forced to go to church and such, also living in the bible belt, the "rant"(Written about 2 and a half years a go, I might add) was really an explanation of my beliefs and how they relate to Christians', since I was explaining it to mostly Christian people.

So it made sense ot me at the time.


That, and as I said, it is useful in a comparitive study. If you were comparing it to other religions, then the comparison is an obviously important one to make. However, your religion does not believe in God and Devil. You believe in forces that manage and direct the universe, but they are, as you've said, no more conscious of what they do than gravity.

It reminds me of a good quote: "A true ruler is as moral as a hurricane: empty, but for the force of his gale."

[Q]
And.. Uh... Thank you. Now I just have to remember that and tell people that's what I believe in, and probably get a lot of questions. sweatdrop


Such a thing is inevitable when you're intelligent. wink
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:15 pm


JoVo- Oh hush. I was in school at the time, my brain was dead. I meant synonomous(sp.), and you knew it! blaugh

Also, I'm intelligent, now? Man, I feel "spechal".

[Q]

Elder


JoVo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:50 pm


[Q]
I meant synonomous(sp.)


I do have to ask: How in God's name do you misspell a word the dictionary entry for which is not two posts above yours?

synonym + ous ≠ synonomous
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:30 pm


Well, there's a few reasons.

1.) Laziness
2.) Brain malfunction
3.) A lack in spelling ability
4.) A lack in common sense
5.) The pressure of multitasking and failing miserably in all the tasks being done.

stare

[Q]

Elder


JoVo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:44 pm


Accursed laziness! scream
Reply
The[ Original] Gay Guild

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