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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:26 am
ZonkotheSane Shoujo Kakumei J-chan If you don't want to be a Torah-observant Jew, nobody is going to make you. I don't understand what the argument going on is about. Mr. Universe zoe, you sultry minx, stop making me fall in love with you awesome, awesome movie!
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:26 pm
Akhilles ZonkotheSane Akhilles Finally Zonko speaks. Im Asking this because im reading a very good book called Freedom From the known. Im raising this question because when we're born, we're forced into study of torah, its not liek you hade a choice, your forced into beleiving all about the stories that "happenned". The First thing your taught you beleive. And if you strive to open your eyes more and look at different stuff, its against religion, blasphemy at times. I never said anything about sex. But lets say i want to be happy by not getting married. Against torah. Lets say i want to be happy by living for the earth and beleiving in mother nature, its against torah, and is wrong to you, why? because you we're taught to judge against it, your not taught to see it without judgement. as children, yes. you are absolutely correct. when my three year old daughter will ask me something, i may very well just tell her "because Hashem said so". but this is a three year old. of course i can't explain to her the intricasies of whatever the answer may be. she simply won't understand. and not understanding, having something that one's mind cannot process, is a terrible thing. so yes, we do tell children things, we do not explain, and we do not expect them to understand, only to accept. again, this is a child. aristotle himself said, after forty years of plumbing the depths of meaning, faith, and life, that all his works should be destroyed, as he had just arrived at the level of a three year old. aristotle, according to the rambam, had acheived the highest level of chuchmah (wisdom) humanly possible, that is to say, without Divine assistance. ultimately, inevitably, this discussion boils down to belief in Hashem. and if you don't have faith in the Almighty, then nothing i can say will change that. i do beleive in God theres no doubt about that. But i do feel that you dont need to follow a certain patern in order to pray to him, if i want to pray to him, I want to stay stuff thats from my heart, not stuff thats been written on paper and everyone in the room is saying the exact same thing. so you believe in Hashem, but you don't believe the torah and it's laws are from Him
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:31 pm
Akhilles i do beleive in God theres no doubt about that. But i do feel that you dont need to follow a certain patern in order to pray to him, if i want to pray to him, I want to stay stuff thats from my heart, not stuff thats been written on paper and everyone in the room is saying the exact same thing. There is a part of prayer where you can put in your own requests. You ask why we all say the same prayer? That's the whole point, to draw the nation as one, all in one voice in prayer to g-d. I have asked the same questions you asked - Indeed, I too feel closer when I can pray to G-d with my own words and feelings... but you have to realise it is a mix between a template, your own feelings, and belief in G-d the brings to true prayers.
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:38 pm
nathan_ngl Akhilles i do beleive in God theres no doubt about that. But i do feel that you dont need to follow a certain patern in order to pray to him, if i want to pray to him, I want to stay stuff thats from my heart, not stuff thats been written on paper and everyone in the room is saying the exact same thing. There is a part of prayer where you can put in your own requests. You ask why we all say the same prayer? That's the whole point, to draw the nation as one, all in one voice in prayer to g-d. I have asked the same questions you asked - Indeed, I too feel closer when I can pray to G-d with my own words and feelings... but you have to realise it is a mix between a template, your own feelings, and belief in G-d the brings to true prayers. true. compare prayer to addressing a king. in a royal court, there are certain laws of etiquite, certain rules, and certain ways of acting, speaking and dressing. prayer is the same way. one simply doesn't speak to one's Creator as one's "buddy". at the same time, one can compare prayer to addressing one's father. a father loves his children, and has no higher concern than for their well-being. and again, one must be respectfull of one's father. just as one doesn't call one's father by his name, one does not address Hashem by His Names. also, those "templates" were created and instituted with more reason and wisdom than one may realise at first.
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:26 am
regarding kosher laws, I have a few
1) Are whales, dolphins and other marine mammals kosher? If so, why? If not, why?
2) If you are in a situation where you only are able to eat unkosher foods, are you allowed to without any consquences?
3) If all life on earth, except for unkosher animals, just died or were depleted, would the kosher laws be allowed to be bent?
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:20 am
Donovinhs Knight regarding kosher laws, I have a few 1) Are whales, dolphins and other marine mammals kosher? If so, why? If not, why? no, because they don't meet certain qualifications (split hooves/cud chewing, for instance) Quote: 2) If you are in a situation where you only are able to eat unkosher foods, are you allowed to without any consquences? p'kuaf nefesh (sanctity of life, ie, obligation to preserve one's self) everrides all but 3 1/2 (3, and a subclause) commandments in the torah. so one is in fact obligated to eat non kosher food in order to preserve one's life. the same applies to human flesh. in fact, it might be preferable to eat human flesh than to eat pig. as for the consequences, who can say? Quote: 3) If all life on earth, except for unkosher animals, just died or were depleted, would the kosher laws be allowed to be bent? no laws are allowed to be bent. period. they have enough clauses and subclauses to deal with any situation. this is like the "if all jewish boys were born without foreskin" question. i'm not even going to answer. stare
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:36 am
ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight regarding kosher laws, I have a few 1) Are whales, dolphins and other marine mammals kosher? If so, why? If not, why? no, because they don't meet certain qualifications (split hooves/cud chewing, for instance) Quote: 2) If you are in a situation where you only are able to eat unkosher foods, are you allowed to without any consquences? p'kuaf nefesh (sanctity of life, ie, obligation to preserve one's self) everrides all but 3 1/2 (3, and a subclause) commandments in the torah. so one is in fact obligated to eat non kosher food in order to preserve one's life. the same applies to human flesh. in fact, it might be preferable to eat human flesh than to eat pig. as for the consequences, who can say? Quote: 3) If all life on earth, except for unkosher animals, just died or were depleted, would the kosher laws be allowed to be bent? no laws are allowed to be bent. period. they have enough clauses and subclauses to deal with any situation. this is like the "if all jewish boys were born without foreskin" question. i'm not even going to answer. stare you already answered xd
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:44 am
ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight regarding kosher laws, I have a few 1) Are whales, dolphins and other marine mammals kosher? If so, why? If not, why? no, because they don't meet certain qualifications (split hooves/cud chewing, for instance) Quote: 2) If you are in a situation where you only are able to eat unkosher foods, are you allowed to without any consquences? p'kuaf nefesh (sanctity of life, ie, obligation to preserve one's self) everrides all but 3 1/2 (3, and a subclause) commandments in the torah. so one is in fact obligated to eat non kosher food in order to preserve one's life. the same applies to human flesh. in fact, it might be preferable to eat human flesh than to eat pig. as for the consequences, who can say? Quote: 3) If all life on earth, except for unkosher animals, just died or were depleted, would the kosher laws be allowed to be bent? no laws are allowed to be bent. period. they have enough clauses and subclauses to deal with any situation. this is like the "if all jewish boys were born without foreskin" question. i'm not even going to answer. stare whats foreskin?
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:28 am
A layer of skin covering the glans or head of the male's reproductive organ. It's removed when a child is circumsized.
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:44 am
ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight Quote: 2) If you are in a situation where you only are able to eat unkosher foods, are you allowed to without any consquences? p'kuaf nefesh (sanctity of life, ie, obligation to preserve one's self) everrides all but 3 1/2 (3, and a subclause) commandments in the torah. so one is in fact obligated to eat non kosher food in order to preserve one's life. the same applies to human flesh. in fact, it might be preferable to eat human flesh than to eat pig. as for the consequences, who can say? is that so? rabbi kook said that we are allowed to eat meat just becouse of our lack in spirituality (because of the ancient sin) . that is, animal's meat, not human. if we shouldn't eat flesh , our craving for it would blind us, and we will eat flesh, regardless it's possession (whether it's human's or animal's). and if we are allowed to eat animal's flesh because of that, do you really think that human flesh is preferable?
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:12 am
tsshark ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight Quote: 2) If you are in a situation where you only are able to eat unkosher foods, are you allowed to without any consquences? p'kuaf nefesh (sanctity of life, ie, obligation to preserve one's self) everrides all but 3 1/2 (3, and a subclause) commandments in the torah. so one is in fact obligated to eat non kosher food in order to preserve one's life. the same applies to human flesh. in fact, it might be preferable to eat human flesh than to eat pig. as for the consequences, who can say? is that so? rabbi kook said that we are allowed to eat meat just becouse of our lack in spirituality (because of the ancient sin) . that is, animal's meat, not human. if we shouldn't eat flesh , our craving for it would blind us, and we will eat flesh, regardless it's possession (whether it's human's or animal's). and if we are allowed to eat animal's flesh because of that, do you really think that human flesh is preferable? I think I'd rather die.... sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:20 am
What if I had to murder someone to save more lives.
Like example I had to choose between killing some random person I didn't know or letting my whole family die.
<> read this book and it made her think
What if someone said kill this old woman and a young teacher in latin america will live if you don't kill her hte young teacher dies.
What about that instance ninja
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:26 am
tsshark ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight Quote: 2) If you are in a situation where you only are able to eat unkosher foods, are you allowed to without any consquences? p'kuaf nefesh (sanctity of life, ie, obligation to preserve one's self) everrides all but 3 1/2 (3, and a subclause) commandments in the torah. so one is in fact obligated to eat non kosher food in order to preserve one's life. the same applies to human flesh. in fact, it might be preferable to eat human flesh than to eat pig. as for the consequences, who can say? is that so? rabbi kook said that we are allowed to eat meat just becouse of our lack in spirituality (because of the ancient sin) . that is, animal's meat, not human. if we shouldn't eat flesh , our craving for it would blind us, and we will eat flesh, regardless it's possession (whether it's human's or animal's). and if we are allowed to eat animal's flesh because of that, do you really think that human flesh is preferable? in case of p'kuaf nefesh, as opposed to pig? i'm no posek, but i've heard, from my rebbe and others, that it might be a possiblility (i did say "may")
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:27 am
darkphoenix1247 tsshark ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight Quote: 2) If you are in a situation where you only are able to eat unkosher foods, are you allowed to without any consquences? p'kuaf nefesh (sanctity of life, ie, obligation to preserve one's self) everrides all but 3 1/2 (3, and a subclause) commandments in the torah. so one is in fact obligated to eat non kosher food in order to preserve one's life. the same applies to human flesh. in fact, it might be preferable to eat human flesh than to eat pig. as for the consequences, who can say? is that so? rabbi kook said that we are allowed to eat meat just becouse of our lack in spirituality (because of the ancient sin) . that is, animal's meat, not human. if we shouldn't eat flesh , our craving for it would blind us, and we will eat flesh, regardless it's possession (whether it's human's or animal's). and if we are allowed to eat animal's flesh because of that, do you really think that human flesh is preferable? I think I'd rather die.... sweatdrop not allowed to. sorry.
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:28 am
YvetteEmilieDupont What if I had to murder someone to save more lives. Like example I had to choose between killing some random person I didn't know or letting my whole family die. <> read this book and it made her think What if someone said kill this old woman and a young teacher in latin america will live if you don't kill her hte young teacher dies. What about that instance ninja a jew is not allowed to murder. no matter what.
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