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Dave the lost

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:29 am


QuinnBW
poweroutage
k...like... what is the deal with black holes? I mean do all laws of physics just fall apart? is there somewhere where physics does not reign supreme? *gasp *feint no it canont be!!!!

I was explained that according to GTR a large enough dent in the fabric of spacetime could cause a black hole (it did not have a rip, though a rip would be an interesting space warp) how large are we talking about? Is this in conjunction with the Chandreshakar limit? How big is the dent with the mass of a star which has surpassed th eChandreshakar limit (try saying that three times fast!)... is this mathematically unfeasible for me to understand?

Then again as I was explained accordin to QM the graviton surpasses the photon? like... what? is the graviton travelling faster than the photon???? what does it all mean? why am I melting? my mind cannot comprehend... I'm meeeeeellllttttttttiiiiiinnnnnngggg........nooooooooooo.

so yah... discuss *dramatic voice BLACK HOLES.
If physics are the laws and rules of the universe then it stands to reason that some where they do not apply. A rule can not be a rule if it dose not have an exception


...wait.
So something like Gauss's law is only a law if it doesn't always apply?
So what do you call something that always applies without exception?
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 10:59 am


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nonameladyofsins


VorpalNeko
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:55 am


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:37 am


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nonameladyofsins


VorpalNeko
Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:48 pm


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:07 am


VorpalNeko


Warning: This embedding is only correct for r>2, since the Schwarzschild metric is has a coordinate singularity at r = 2 (at zero elevation, where the surface has an inflection point, roughly in the transition between cyan and green), whereas for r<2, the metric is not just nonstationary but timelike there, and hence does not belong on an embedding of the Schwarzschild space. Nevertheless, I included it because it is still interesting--with the mental note that for r<2 (negative elevation in the diagram), "down" is actually the time direction and not a spatial one, there is no ambiguity.
User Image




I have a couple questions. I hear that the universe is actually expanding, and eventually will expand so fast we will be ripped apart atom by atom...
But my question is, are black holes stationary in spacetime, or do they move relative to the expansion/shrinking of the universe? As our solar system moves, so are black holes?

Also, in this graph, I thought of an idea that relates to the big bang... forgive my ignorance in physics, but I wanted to know...
In this graph, it isn't a wormhole structure, so after it reachers the event horizon, maybe things collect in a pocket of time? I mean, things do fall into black holes, right? So if enough packed into a packet of time, maybe it results in a new universe, or fills another dimesion...
A "big bang" for parallel universe, if you will.


Could you explain how this is or is not possible? D:
I'm curious. ;D

I understand roughly half of the equations and things you throw out. Barely. But I comprehend to an extent enough. ;D

AirisMagik


VorpalNeko
Captain

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:15 pm


AirisMagik
I have a couple questions. I hear that the universe is actually expanding, and eventually will expand so fast we will be ripped apart atom by atom... But my question is, are black holes stationary in spacetime, or do they move relative to the expansion/shrinking of the universe? As our solar system moves, so are black holes?

It depends on the expansion scenario. A black hole in a de Sitter type universe (Λ>0) would be stable in that sense. The geometry is that of two distinct horizons--the black hole's event horizon and the cosmological horizon of the de Sitter space. There is a radius at which the expansive effect of Λ>0 exactly balances the gravitational attraction of the black hole. Although this trajectory is unstable, the fact that it is there means the black hole itself is stable. (A less hand-wavy proof of this is possible, but not really illuminating.)

A positive cosmological constant Λ could also be modelled as matter with energy density ρ and pressure p<0, with w = p/ρ = -1. This is insufficient for a "big rip" scenario, which requires w < -1. In that case, the acceleration will destroy black holes as well as the cosmological horizon shrinks to a point.

AirisMagik
In this graph, it isn't a wormhole structure, so after it reachers the event horizon, maybe things collect in a pocket of time?

After crossing the event horizon, the singularity is inevitable. At that point, classically the infalling object stops existing--its worldline simply ends. Semi-classically, well, things are a lot less clear. That is the so-called black hole information paradox.

AirisMagik
I mean, things do fall into black holes, right? So if enough packed into a packet of time, maybe it results in a new universe, or fills another dimesion... A "big bang" for parallel universe, if you will.

A sort of "new universe seeding" was actually one of proposed solution to the above paradox. I would say it is in some sense possible, but I would not call it plausible.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:12 pm


The only way to truly comprehend and describe the nature of black holes is with the Grand Unified Field Theory, currently being worked on by Sir Stephen Hawking and many others. People hope to find it soon, but it is a difficult task to combine the quantum and tangible realms of science.

Uber_Pwns119


VorpalNeko
Captain

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:13 pm


Uber_Pwns119
The only way to truly comprehend and describe the nature of black holes is with the Grand Unified Field Theory, currently being worked on by Sir Stephen Hawking and many others. People hope to find it soon, but it is a difficult task to combine the quantum and tangible realms of science.

The large-scale structure of black holes should be describable by standard GTR just fine. It's only the fine structure, particularly near the singularity, that would be in doubt. As an aside, methinks you should review anatomy. Don't confuse GUTs with TOEs.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:46 pm


hehe anatomy

Ok back to what i was going to say.
Bunch of questions soo brace yourself (sermon was a repeat from sunday so i was bored, sadly this is what I do when im bored)
1) Is there such thing as a weak black hole?
1b) Could it be weak enough to have light just "orbit" its outer edges?
2)What does c have to do with the gravitational force of a black hole?
3)What actually happens to an object that goes into a black hole?
3b)Does it just get crushed into the smallest possible thing (need a different word for that)?
4) Isn't the idea for gravity in a black hole all just theory? (we haven't actaully been able to test it somehow right? I mean how could we.)
5)Could there be a black hole that is ball shape, like circular? (from what i can find the answer is no but I'm just checking with you guys because your better educated at this than I am. If there is a possibility that there is then I have a nice theory that I'll post.)



Ok thats all I've got for black holes besides a couple nice drawings of my round black hole theory and another concerning stars.
~Ender

Endert


VorpalNeko
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:30 pm


Endert
Bunch of questions soo brace yourself (sermon was a repeat from sunday so i was bored, sadly this is what I do when im bored)

Hah. Last sunday, I was at church, which I attend only because I have a friend that calls me up and heckles me into attending. During the sermon, I did a proof of the fact that if A,B are real symmetric matrices, then AB-BA has only imaginary eigenvalues in my head. Ironically, the sermon was about not listening to God.

Endert
1) Is there such thing as a weak black hole?
1b) Could it be weak enough to have light just "orbit" its outer edges?

In GTR, black holes can be of arbitrary size, although quantum effects will be very significant for small sizes--it is likely that black holes cannot be smaller than a Planck mass. For a Schwarzschild black hole, light can theoretically orbit at 3/2 Schwarzschild radii, but that orbit is unstable--any pertubation will destroy it. I've covered the reasons for this here, although it is unlikely that anyone not already familiar with at least calculus will understand it. Since you are a high school freshman,

Endert
2)What does c have to do with the gravitational force of a black hole?

It defines black hole size in the first place: Schwarzschild radius r = 2GM/c². In that sense, I guess you can think of it as a scaling parameter.

Endert
3)What actually happens to an object that goes into a black hole?

It gets crushed. It is unclear what happens at the singularity, but according to classic GTR alone (which is not good for physics on this scale), anything encountering a singularity simply stops existing--it is no longer anywhere in spacetime.

Endert
3b)Does it just get crushed into the smallest possible thing (need a different word for that)?

A black hole already has the smallest possible volume for a given mass, if the size of a black hole is defined by its event horizon.

Endert
4) Isn't the idea for gravity in a black hole all just theory? (we haven't actaully been able to test it somehow right? I mean how could we.)

There is no reason to seriously doubt the existence of event horizons, since they are an ordinary prediction of GTR, which is an extremely well-established theory. If GTR fails, it would near the singularity. Most physicists expect that to be the case.

Endert
5)Could there be a black hole that is ball shape, like circular? (from what i can find the answer is no but I'm just checking with you guys because your better educated at this than I am. If there is a possibility that there is then I have a nice theory that I'll post.)

Could you clarify this question? I'm not certain what you're asking. Nonrotating black holes (Schwarzschild, Reissner-Nordström) are perfect spheres, in the sense that in space, their event horizons are spherical. Or are you asking about the singularity? Rotating black holes have a circular "ring" singularity rather than a point-like one found in nonrotating black holes.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:06 pm


poweroutage
k...like... what is the deal with black holes? I mean do all laws of physics just fall apart? is there somewhere where physics does not reign supreme? *gasp *feint no it canont be!!!!

I was explained that according to GTR a large enough dent in the fabric of spacetime could cause a black hole (it did not have a rip, though a rip would be an interesting space warp) how large are we talking about? Is this in conjunction with the Chandreshakar limit? How big is the dent with the mass of a star which has surpassed th eChandreshakar limit (try saying that three times fast!)... is this mathematically unfeasible for me to understand?

Then again as I was explained accordin to QM the graviton surpasses the photon? like... what? is the graviton travelling faster than the photon???? what does it all mean? why am I melting? my mind cannot comprehend... I'm meeeeeellllttttttttiiiiiinnnnnngggg........nooooooooooo.

so yah... discuss *dramatic voice BLACK HOLES.


A black hole is the mass of a star consentrated in to something about the size of a basketball. You have to think of space time like a peice of cloth. When you put alot of weight in a small area, the cloth is pulled down towards that point. Thats how gravity works. Because so much pressure is put into an extremly small point, everthing within the 'event horizon' is pulled inward to the center of the pressure.

does that help with your space-time dent question?

I ate your Sex

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