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 Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:23 pm
Especially if your christian, like I am, this is an outrage. We believe that unborn childs have souls, so this is DEFFINATELY not right
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Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:19 pm
Tennis_Fanatic Especially if your christian, like I am, this is an outrage. We believe that unborn childs have souls, so this is DEFFINATELY not right I think we're all disgusted by it, religious or not. But yeah, the soul thing has a lot of impact on a person....though some people say the soul is given at birth. I can't believe that at all. Anyway, I'm with you on this one. obviously. I'll shut up now.
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:27 pm
Woo, I don't know if that guy was talking about my post or something else within the thread. eek
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:30 pm
toxic_lollipop It's more basic, for instance if the police were to find a guy stabbed to death, it would be a homicide. If under further investigation it could be deemed "self-defence" and yet still a homicide, where as it could not be murder for two reasons. #1 it was not premeditated and #2 self-defence is legal.
Also if someone was to get pissed off and kill someone else, but had not planned it, it would be homicide and not murder. This is because it had not been premeditated.
So while the meanings seem the same, homicide is far more general than murder, and unless abortion becomes illegal again it cannot be labeled at "murder".
There is of course the loophole in the definition where when being sentenced it's "murder in the first degree" or whatever. Not "homicide", however when debating with abortion it's better to not use the word murder as the choicers can disprove it quite easily, and it makes the person who used the word look like they don't know what they're talking about. I think someone watches a lot of Law and Order. J/k. How unfair, I've been trying to learn legal jargon by watching Crime Shows, and I'm still hopeless at it. xp
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:49 pm
Elternalmina I think someone watches a lot of Law and Order. J/k. How unfair, I've been trying to learn legal jargon by watching Crime Shows, and I'm still hopeless at it. xp
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:57 pm
toxic_lollipop Elternalmina I think someone watches a lot of Law and Order. J/k. How unfair, I've been trying to learn legal jargon by watching Crime Shows, and I'm still hopeless at it. xp you're welcome ^_^
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:12 pm
Shush, I'm tired. That to shouldn't have been there at all.
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:21 pm
toxic_lollipop Shush, I'm tired. That to shouldn't have been there at all. That's even worse darling. *strokes hair* I think we both need sleep... so you go get some and I'll wait here until you awake. xd
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Theallpowerfull toxic_lollipop Shush, I'm tired. That to shouldn't have been there at all. That's even worse darling. *strokes hair* I think we both need sleep... so you go get some and I'll wait here until you awake. xd
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:33 pm
toxic_lollipop Theallpowerfull toxic_lollipop Shush, I'm tired. That to shouldn't have been there at all. That's even worse darling. *strokes hair* I think we both need sleep... so you go get some and I'll wait here until you awake. xd How come I ended up going to bed first then?
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:52 pm
toxic_lollipop Elternalmina I think someone watches a lot of Law and Order. J/k. How unfair, I've been trying to learn legal jargon by watching Crime Shows, and I'm still hopeless at it. xp Lol, no wonder.
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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:53 pm
toxic_lollipop It's homicide.
Murder is the unlawful, premeditated killing of a human being, so because abortion is legal it cannot be "unlawful" and so therefore cannot be murder. However homicide is simply "the killing of a human being" and because of this abortion must therefore be homicide. I think it is murder. Here's the definition of murder from dictionary.oed.com: 1. The action or an act of killing. a. The deliberate and unlawful killing of a human being, esp. in a premeditated manner; (Law) criminal homicide with malice aforethought (occas. more fully wilful murder); an instance of this. So yes. You're absolutely right about the fact that it's "unlawful killing." But the key here is that it's MORALLY unlawfu. It's also against the Constitution, which states that we are entitled to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." I don't know if you believe that life begins at conception (that's a whole 'nother argument), but say, for example, it does, then abortion is the taking of life, and is unconstitutional and, therefore, unlawful. Even if abortion is legal, we both/all know that it is WRONG! Therefore, it doesn't matter if legal or illegal, it is very, very wrong and is morally and ethically (and scientifically) murder--delibertate taking of an illegal life. Please understand. I don't want to make anyone mad, I'm just trying to understand more about my position for life. This isn't a flame. Please don't take it that way. smile
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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:27 pm
Yeah, it's not a flame, we know. At least I did.
Problem is, they always bring in technicalities. So... *shrug* it's a technicality, lol. homicide has just as much (if not more...it sounds more violent, to me anyway) impact as murder. Once you get into that though, they point out that it's legal to kill cows and ducks as long as you own them. Equating a baby to a foodsource isn't exactly...eh I dunno. Bleck. But people kept going into forums saying it's murder, and to us it is murder, but in the legal sense, it isn't.
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:13 pm
Laws are dictated by humans and governement. Based on morals an ethics, simply because your morals say that killing a fetus is wrong and SHOULD be against the law doesn't make it against the law. There are no "moral laws" except the ones set by our government.
As of right now the "moral law" states that it is perfectly fine to kill a fetus. You do NOT have to agree with this, but however simply because you don't agree with it doesn't therefore make it "morally illegal" to abort. It may make it "morally wrong" but that has no bearing on the law.
To commit murder you must kill a human in a way that is "morally illegal" as of right now killing a fetus is not "morally illegal" and so cannot be classified as murder.
Even under your definition it states "criminal homicide" you cannot be a criminal unless you break the law, abortion is legal so having one is not breaking the law, therefore it is not murder.
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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:52 pm
toxic_lollipop Laws are dictated by humans and governement. Based on morals an ethics, simply because your morals say that killing a fetus is wrong and SHOULD be against the law doesn't make it against the law. There are no "moral laws" except the ones set by our government.
As of right now the "moral law" states that it is perfectly fine to kill a fetus. You do NOT have to agree with this, but however simply because you don't agree with it doesn't therefore make it "morally illegal" to abort. It may make it "morally wrong" but that has no bearing on the law.
To commit murder you must kill a human in a way that is "morally illegal" as of right now killing a fetus is not "morally illegal" and so cannot be classified as murder.
Even under your definition it states "criminal homicide" you cannot be a criminal unless you break the law, abortion is legal so having one is not breaking the law, therefore it is not murder. Perhaps you're right. But there are still some things I don't understand. Our government's laws don't dictate what morals people have to have. Maybe the laws of Nazi Germany did that, but the US goverment doesn't. But there are basic morals that people are born with ('don't go out and kill and steal etc...or you're get in trouble'). Those are the little laws that suggest how we are supposed to live our lives. Your morals may be slightly different than mine, and that's great...but they're basic laws. And when they're violated, a law (a basic, fundamental law of how we're to behave) has been broken. The laws that we're talking about here conflict; the law that the US has that makes abortion legal and the basic law of 'don't kill.' One is broken/being broken, and the other is faulty. The basic law--the basic moral--is the one being broken. Therefore, abortion is the unlawful breaking of a basic moral law. (How many times did I use 'basic' in that...) sweatdrop
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