Edit: ALSO! Hold the presses. What about Pegicorns? Are they breedable?
I'm also curious about Pegicorns being breedable and having them breed into more pegicorns. I would really like that. I don't think every pegicorn is going to be made into an alicorn and I think that in and of itself could lead to some interesting kind of racial culture. Pegicorns who never reached ascension, how that would make them feel if someone blood related to them did like a brother, sister, daughter, grandson, ext? It would be like being part of a royal bloodline and one day some descendant has the hidden potential of reaching that point.
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:04 pm
Yushika
They are breedable! However, that leads to another question; how do customers feel about Pegicorns being able to have children, who are also Pegicorn's, that can ascend if they reach requirements?
Or, should we treat them like hybrids, where they'll only reproduce children that are either Unicorn or Pegasus (plus what their partner is)? Hybrids do not make more hybrids. However, Pegicorn's.... aren't exactly hybrids? This is a decision purely up to you guys, as I am fine with either options!
I would be really happy if they were their own race that would have the small possibility of birthing unicorns or pegasus, but mostly bred other pegicorns. There could be lore attached to magical potency leaving the family blood lines if pegicorns don't ascend into their full potential. It would lead to interesting family dynamics.
I'm not so concerned with Pegicorns becoming overpopulated because they are a solution to Alicorn overpopulation in the first place and regardless of how many are made there must be hard work put into it by the owner to have them ascend regardless. Pegicorns will become more common place at some point.
How do genetic call backs work? Is race entirely determined by parents race, or can grandparents also offer the potential rare chances of their race being passed on? Or is throwbacks like that only for certain markings and colors?
On the topic of Alicorn's breeding onto the Alicorn base, that is something I'm very strongly leaning away from, as it's diminishing the value of the lines. Alicorn's will still produce Alicorn children in the sense that their children are, technically, the same race as their parents, they'll just be on the smaller base + without a domain and powers. As the shop grows, we're going to get more and more people with the larger lineart breeding, and that lineart eventually won't be as unique to get.
I don't think it's too late to restrict them, as we already have over 200 ponies out and are making ponies at a rapid speed! If we curb things down now, that 30 may only increase by very few as time goes on. Not breeding onto the larger lines will def save us, as breedings produce more than one child at any given time! c:
I like the requirements you posted! I might lower them a tad to 20 PRPs and 8 solo's, but I also am the kind that worries people won't RP if things are too high! I'm not sure what people are willing to do!
There is a cooldown of one month for breedings already <3
If we go with Pegicorn route and a harder system to ascend, I think not doing a fail chance would be fine! The reason I didn't put it in the first post was because it's something that could leave negative feelings for those entering breedings. As the breeding system very much encourages RP and tries to reward those who do it with extra kids, I worry a fail chance might turn people off with breeding. Again, I worry a lot, maybe people aren't nearly as concerned as I am, lmao.
Also, for ascension, you can keep your Pegicorn a Pegicorn forever if you want!!! That is absolutely your choice, totally! And yes, you can pick your own domain, more info is below in the response for Holographic!
Midnight Holographic
I can add a system where Pegicorn's can reserve a potential domain for 3 months, but only IF the owner in question knows the path their Pegicorn will go on to get that domain (i.e, how in RP this is going to show). Renewal will still be a thing as long as they show progress on trying to get their requirements done!
As for what would change - Their markings and colors will stay the same (unless there's a legitimate reason for something to alter, such as someone getting the domain of stone having their markings change to a more stone like color). Their hair will remain similar, but altering how their hair is styled (i.e, up in a ponytail, braided, etc) is allowed. The owner can add jewelry + things that show off power such as how some Alicorn's have elemental things surrounding them that ft their domain. Much like how you have an Alicorn with a light halo! The owner can include that into their Alicorn, as long as it fits their domain.
Pegicorn's that ascend will still need a cutiemark for cutiemark perks, as the way to get a cutiemark is through Meta RP, and I will not be requiring ponies to enter a Meta to ascend (only because that forces us to frequently make Meta's even if currently we are not ready to). UNLESS, I might add an option that has it where if your Pegicorn participated in a Meta, that Meta RP counts for x amount of PRP's (making it so you need to do less PRP's in the end), as Meta's are very driven on hard work and dedicating time.
For Pegicorn ascending limits, I think 2 a month seems fair!
Herbaceous
They are breedable! However, that leads to another question; how do customers feel about Pegicorns being able to have children, who are also Pegicorn's, that can ascend if they reach requirements?
Or, should we treat them like hybrids, where they'll only reproduce children that are either Unicorn or Pegasus (plus what their partner is)? Hybrids do not make more hybrids. However, Pegicorn's.... aren't exactly hybrids? This is a decision purely up to you guys, as I am fine with either options!
I will admit I did aim for the high side as like a mark of "this is the highest amount I feel is fair"? Like I figured higher then that would be unreasonable to me, personally, so I thought it safe to assume others would as well. I'm okay with the idea of lowering it as you did.
I do understand the worry though lol. Finding that fine balance of control and making customers happy. Been there twice before. Also I'm glad to see that they can remain pegacorns if they wish! Good to know~
Also on the subject of pegacorn breedings:
I feel like they should not be able to breed pegacorns that can ascend? I would rather, if people choose not to ascend their pegacorns, that they throw either more pegacorns but ones that can not ascend (by doing this it can also, hopefully, help to keep alicorns rare) or throwing unicorns/pegasi/whatever else the breeding partner might be.
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:19 pm
Yushika
I like the requirements you posted! I might lower them a tad to 20 PRPs and 8 solo's, but I also am the kind that worries people won't RP if things are too high! I'm not sure what people are willing to do!
Maybe how many PrPs and solo rps to ascend a pegicorn need also be voted upon too and with that comes more questions that I think need to be determined by you.How many posts per PRP, how many posts per solo rp? How many letter minimum per post?
I also worry that people wont be willing to go out of their way to a certain point too which is why we should come together as a group to vote on how many completed roleplays should be necessary to ascend your pegicorn.
Also the reason why I so easily want to shy away from PrPs is because people get busy in real life all the time. While your dedicated to get the roleplay done someone else might not be. So you might have a several half finished roleplays waiting on other people, but your waiting weeks on months for someone to reply next. There needs to be ways people can supplement those PrPs either through open roleplay events, solo rps, metas, ext. Like for example steadily posting in the circus event would potentially help my character towards their roleplay goal for ascension.
I'm still going to disagree and prefer the 20 PRP/8 solo count for the limit on ascensions. We can circumvent the issue of unfinished rps by providing a minimum word count necessary for the rp to count towards the finished reqs. Perhaps as long as you, yourself, have reached 500 words for said rp it should be allowed to count.
Maybe we can also have where you can substitute a certain number of solos for PRP? Perhaps 2 solos for 1 PRP?
This is all in the name of working for ascensions and keeping Alicorns rare. So yes it is not something that will or should be too easily obtainable. Because it defeats the purpose.
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:39 pm
Yushika
Popping in with responses!
White Trickster Rabbit
On the topic of Alicorn's breeding onto the Alicorn base, that is something I'm very strongly leaning away from, as it's diminishing the value of the lines. Alicorn's will still produce Alicorn children in the sense that their children are, technically, the same race as their parents, they'll just be on the smaller base + without a domain and powers. As the shop grows, we're going to get more and more people with the larger lineart breeding, and that lineart eventually won't be as unique to get.
I don't think it's too late to restrict them, as we already have over 200 ponies out and are making ponies at a rapid speed! If we curb things down now, that 30 may only increase by very few as time goes on. Not breeding onto the larger lines will def save us, as breedings produce more than one child at any given time! c:
I like the requirements you posted! I might lower them a tad to 20 PRPs and 8 solo's, but I also am the kind that worries people won't RP if things are too high! I'm not sure what people are willing to do!
There is a cooldown of one month for breedings already <3
If we go with Pegicorn route and a harder system to ascend, I think not doing a fail chance would be fine! The reason I didn't put it in the first post was because it's something that could leave negative feelings for those entering breedings. As the breeding system very much encourages RP and tries to reward those who do it with extra kids, I worry a fail chance might turn people off with breeding. Again, I worry a lot, maybe people aren't nearly as concerned as I am, lmao.
Also, for ascension, you can keep your Pegicorn a Pegicorn forever if you want!!! That is absolutely your choice, totally! And yes, you can pick your own domain, more info is below in the response for Holographic!
Midnight Holographic
I can add a system where Pegicorn's can reserve a potential domain for 3 months, but only IF the owner in question knows the path their Pegicorn will go on to get that domain (i.e, how in RP this is going to show). Renewal will still be a thing as long as they show progress on trying to get their requirements done!
As for what would change - Their markings and colors will stay the same (unless there's a legitimate reason for something to alter, such as someone getting the domain of stone having their markings change to a more stone like color). Their hair will remain similar, but altering how their hair is styled (i.e, up in a ponytail, braided, etc) is allowed. The owner can add jewelry + things that show off power such as how some Alicorn's have elemental things surrounding them that ft their domain. Much like how you have an Alicorn with a light halo! The owner can include that into their Alicorn, as long as it fits their domain.
Pegicorn's that ascend will still need a cutiemark for cutiemark perks, as the way to get a cutiemark is through Meta RP, and I will not be requiring ponies to enter a Meta to ascend (only because that forces us to frequently make Meta's even if currently we are not ready to). UNLESS, I might add an option that has it where if your Pegicorn participated in a Meta, that Meta RP counts for x amount of PRP's (making it so you need to do less PRP's in the end), as Meta's are very driven on hard work and dedicating time.
For Pegicorn ascending limits, I think 2 a month seems fair!
Herbaceous
They are breedable! However, that leads to another question; how do customers feel about Pegicorns being able to have children, who are also Pegicorn's, that can ascend if they reach requirements?
Or, should we treat them like hybrids, where they'll only reproduce children that are either Unicorn or Pegasus (plus what their partner is)? Hybrids do not make more hybrids. However, Pegicorn's.... aren't exactly hybrids? This is a decision purely up to you guys, as I am fine with either options!
I think there should be a one month check in requirement for holding domains, personally, with showing that you are actively RPing, because while I know real life gets in the way, it's really unfair for someone to be clinging to a domain and doing exactly nothing three months at a time if someone, say, who wants to RP constantly and is showing activity, wants the same domain.
Also, a question - I know it was asked during the chat, but it might be worth bringing up that other long line ponies may exist in the future? Because I mean, if a shark pony can ascend/grow/whatever (since I assume no domains for them, obviously) into long lines, why would a pegacorn not be able to grow into the alicorn lines, regardless of how many generations down? And they are technically still alicorns, so shouldn't they have the same ability as any other pony to grow into the long lines if long lines exist for more pones in the future?
Though I'm not opposed to 2+ gen pegacorns having a special breed name / mark on their cert?? (just because that would get confusing as heck eventually) and not being able to claim domains, as long as they have the ability to grow into the lines like any other pony if those lines exist in the future.
(I know it was a "not right now" thing when mentioned, but it would be best to plan that out as well so you don't have to mess with the system again later?)
EDIT: I also feel that a 500 word requirement if you're allowing unfinished rps is WAY too low. I can shell out a 500 word blather starter in like 15 minutes; I know not everyone writes that fast, but I feel it should be longer for an rp that has just ... not concluded.
polliwoggi Crew
Star-Crossed Shapeshifter
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NymiiNym Captain
Shy Wife
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:43 pm
Variable Nonsense
We don't know exactly if we're going to do long-limbed bases for other races currently. While we did like the idea, and the lineartist is into it, there's a worry that eventually that'll overwork the lineartist + colorists, so right now we're taking off ascending other lines off the table until we figure out what we want (which may not be until late next year). Once we figure that out I'll def discuss it in depth more!
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:46 pm
Midnight Holographic
Took a second to answer since this I had to check a guide and realized I never typed how throwbacks work, lmao.
Throwbacks are only for markings and colors! Edit: And special body edits. I.E, grandma had a deer tail, grandkids can inherit it
Tbh I only really used 500 word count since I was using it as a solo limit (which I feel is a fair limit as far as solos go). I am not opposed to it being more though (perhaps maybe 800-1000?)!
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:31 pm
White Trickster Rabbit
I'm still going to disagree and prefer the 20 PRP/8 solo count for the limit on ascensions. We can circumvent the issue of unfinished rps by providing a minimum word count necessary for the rp to count towards the finished reqs. Perhaps as long as you, yourself, have reached 500 words for said rp it should be allowed to count.
Maybe we can also have where you can substitute a certain number of solos for PRP? Perhaps 2 solos for 1 PRP?
This is all in the name of working for ascensions and keeping Alicorns rare. So yes it is not something that will or should be too easily obtainable. Because it defeats the purpose.
I don't think I explained myself very well. I wasn't saying that reaching a minimum of 500 words would count towards one point in your rp, but I meant a minimum number of letters per post in a roleplay needed be completed to count as a complete roleplay.
1 completed rp = 1 rp point
1 completed rp = 5 posts bare minimum on your behalf with at least 500 word count per post to count towards the roleplay being completed or an accumulation of 2500 words per completed roleplay to count towards 1 roleplay point.
I just want a standardized letters per posts, and posts per completed rps. Maybe we can work of the roleplay point perk system that's already in place for normal roleplay found here.
Having something like 2 solo rps counting towards one prp point would be really helpful and I agree with that option entirely. I didn't know what the solution would be, but there needs to be some flexibility for people having trouble getting other people to commit to roleplaying with them.
Regardless of all of this being said roleplaying Pegicorns is going to be really fun and rewarding in and of itself. We need to find that fine balance between having people put real effort into achieving their goals, but once they do having them feel like it was completely worth it. This also helps incentify people towards roleplaying at all which we've seen a huge lack of in comparison to the number of people actually owning ponies in the shop. If this encourages people to be more active in this way I'm all for it. This might even be a great way to get people who can't afford to purchase RLC Alicorns to get them either through gifting, or events. Events that have pegicorns as prizes for people who don't already own an Alicorn I think would give more people a reason to roleplay. This would help the shop to look less biased towards people who have the cash to afford certain things. I say that knowing that the shop isn't that way, but not everyone might view it as such.
Midnight Holographic
Devoted Husband
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Midnight Holographic
Devoted Husband
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:40 pm
Variable Nonsense
I think there should be a one month check in requirement for holding domains, personally, with showing that you are actively RPing, because while I know real life gets in the way, it's really unfair for someone to be clinging to a domain and doing exactly nothing three months at a time if someone, say, who wants to RP constantly and is showing activity, wants the same domain.
I agree with a once a month check in requirement for holding domains specific for pegicorns. Three months is too long for a domain to go unworked for, and the whole point of having the domains guarded was to give room for people to actively work towards getting their pegicorn ascended. It's not fair otherwise and it's just hoarding after a certain point. People need to be able to link to places they've been posting in for roleplay points counting towards that.
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:45 pm
I think this is being made to be over complicated? Because its not being counted by posts in an rp but how many rps you finish. It is literally just roleplaying with someone until the rp ends or feels like it has ended (unless something happens and the rp is unfinished).
It's just a matter of completing an rp. Nothing more. The only way word count comes into play is in the matter of solos (500 word count) and the possibility of an unfinished rp because irl happened (which would probably be more like 800-1000 word count). That's all it is.
((Forewarning:: This is horribly-organized idea soup, but I wanted to put these out there where people can dissect and analyze them!))
If it's just "a complete RP" tho, either unfinished or finished, I'd want it to either reach 2 pages back and forth on the guild forum (16+ posts), 100 posts back and forth (pasted from discord in the form of *sneezes* *giggles* "don't laugh at me!!!") or 1000 words total. That way there's a clear outline of what consists a roleplay so both roleplayers and future roleplay/lore managers have a clear idea of what can be accepted/denied. I can write 1000 words in 20-30 minutes as a solo RP, so I'd ALSO want it to have to be spread out between solos, 1-on-1, group and meta (possibly at least 1 meta, an additional 1 group/meta (with group being 3(or 4) or more roleplayers) 2 solos showing personality growth (one early-arc and one set after the majority of the qualifying roleplays), as well as 1-on-1 roleplays. I don't think 10 roleplays total, 5 1-on-1's, 2 solos, and 2 multis plus one of any kind (possibly including a character profile of some kind; I'd imagine a character profile would be a necessity for ascension), or possibly a specially-written dream about the domain being written AFTER the other requirements are checked and okayed.
I would like to see all pegicorns have the chance to ascend! Maybe there could be a limited number of ascensions per user/account? So you can only have... max 3 or max 5 alicorns via pegicorn ascension no matter what. After that you'd be forced to rely on RLC or rare auction breedings. It's simpler!
I do think that pegicorns should effectively be alicorns, and I did like the FiM logic of Alicorn=combination of earth, pegasus, and unicorn pony bloodline and magic. Basically, it would make them a sort of rare hybrid that only rarely passes, AND means that unless you have two pegicorn/alicorn parents OR a special breeding type that there's little to no chance of passing alicornness. It also means they can throw both hybrid or pure combinations of earth pony, unicorn, and pegasus.
As a suggestion to amend this, earth ponies could potentially be reworked slightly with thicker limbs and neck to be more of a drafthorse look? So that earth hybrids would have a visible trait that carried.
I'd suggest fetlocking as an earth trait but they're already incorporated into most races -and- are an important part of moth pixies, so the fetlocking can't be an earth-exclusive trait.
However, it could be Earth ponies are special in that hybrids are impossible because other breeds breed true against it....
I also think it might be worth people stating in the domain claim -how- they plan on attaining it.
ANOTHER IDEA to contrast the pegicorn: make all earth, pegasus, and unicorn ponies that ARE NOT HYBRIDS OF NON-PONY RACES (just gotta be those three visible on the lines) capable of ascending. Cut the gordian knot. All kids are therefore technically mundane until they have enough growth to inherit some sort of domain– but this is through extensive roleplay ONLY, transforming them first onto the Pegicorn base when they INHERIT their domain, and then onto the Alicorn base after -further requirements-. You could have several Pegicorns with competing domains, or even multiple/changing ones; possibly affected by their studies and interests– until they find their domain or inherit it from an older Alicorn hanging up their laurels.
Also– a crown or laurel or fancy boots that ONLY get put on domained alicorns, or a fancy cert for the ascended deities, would be another way to differentiate between domained alis and roleplay-veteran pegicorns.
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:20 am
I think one way to solve the problem is just to limit how often someone can receive an Alicorn. There are after all I'm sure a decent amount of shop goers that can't participate in RLC. Maybe set a limit (this does not count for breedings) of buying/winning an Alicorn one every 3 months? I know that might seem like a long time, but this has been limited in other shops in similar ways when dealing with rare lines to keep the balance in the way it was intended.
We can also limit breedings in a way. Say there are 4 obtainable breeding slots. But only one of those slots can be an Alicorn breeding.
If we implement ways to make them more limited to begin with, we might not even have to go the smaller base pegacorn route?
And on the topic of RPs for growing Pegacorns, I think two full pages is fairly long. I've been in some very heavy rp requirement shops before. Also, 500 words per post can also be a chore. For me when going back and forth with another person in an RP 500 words can be a lot to have to respond/build up with. It's more natural when the posts are smaller and the characters can react more nataually. Instead of having like 3 different conversations at once. I hope that makes sense. I agree there should be a certain word count needed per person, per RP. But not per post. Except in the case of solos, 500 words seems very fair for a solo.
