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| truth or sincerity? |
| truth or death |
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5% |
[ 1 ] |
| sincerity and sweetness |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| truth but tolerance; don't kill the opposition |
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29% |
[ 5 ] |
| sincerity but seeking a firmer ground |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
| i'm mixed up...? |
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29% |
[ 5 ] |
| can't i just be truthfully sincere or sincerely truthful? |
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23% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 17 |
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 Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:42 am
Tigress Dawn chessiejo i can believe that gravity is not true, but if i drop a brick on my toe it will still hurt. surely some spiritual things must be like that? ia m just not sure how to sort it all out.
I personally see no religion as wrong. This may be an odd belief, but here goes. I believe that everyone prays to the same god, they just see different faces of him/her. Its like a mother with 3 children. Each child will see the mother differently and each will come up with different adjectives to describe her, thus we see god or the gods. As far as different religions go, each child will speak to the mother differently and will have a different way of expressing themselves, and so it is with religions. If that annalogy made any sense.
Now, does that mean any of the kids are wrong about the mother when they describe her? Of course not, they just see her differently that the other ones, but its still the same mom. Wow, you rock. That was the best description of the core of my belief I have ever heard.
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:21 am
Tigress Dawn chessiejo i can believe that gravity is not true, but if i drop a brick on my toe it will still hurt. surely some spiritual things must be like that? ia m just not sure how to sort it all out.
I personally see no religion as wrong. This may be an odd belief, but here goes. I believe that everyone prays to the same god, they just see different faces of him/her. Its like a mother with 3 children. Each child will see the mother differently and each will come up with different adjectives to describe her, thus we see god or the gods. As far as different religions go, each child will speak to the mother differently and will have a different way of expressing themselves, and so it is with religions. If that annalogy made any sense.
Now, does that mean any of the kids are wrong about the mother when they describe her? Of course not, they just see her differently that the other ones, but its still the same mom. I love your analogy. For the age thing - We wouldn't presume to know how God experiences time, would we? After all, the bible says seven days, but perhaps it was only PERCIEVED as seven days by God (assuming the bible is infallible, etc.). In which case, one day to God may equal a million years to humans, thus, time did not begin to be recorded as we perceive it until people were created to perceive it that way. Perhaps the Genesis creation story is simply evolution, recorded differently. I don't believe there's any one truth. I believe that life is what you make it, your perception is what is, to you. Thus, if you believe that everyone who believes other than you will burn in hell, you will see them that way. That's why things that once existed don't anymore, that's why new things are possible. *shrug* Just my opinion.
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:22 am
Psychedelic Midnight I think beliefs that contradict mine are wrong. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. But if I stood on a street corner and yelled obscenities at you, threatening you with hellfire, it wouldn't convince you of anything; so why bother? Thank you. I've gained immense respect for you for that. After all - if you ARE right, we'll be eating our words soon enough.
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:35 am
chessiejo if everything is as subjective as all that, then there is no reality at all, and we cannot talk to each other because our language does not refer to the same objects. Well, if we use Cartesian Skepticism, I only know that I exist for sure at this moment, and that is the only truth that I can know is absolutely certain. I do not know what I am, if I am a physical object, or purely mental, or even something else, but, I do know that I am. Now, if I want to function in this 'reality' I have to accept that it is real, otherwise, I will be ostracized, and that is something that would hinder my functioning in this 'reality.' Now, on the term truth, itself, truth is nothing more than that which has been repeated enough times so that a majority of the people in a society believe it. E.g. Euclids triangle proof; it may be wrong, we do not know, and just because we don't have the means to test it completely, doesn't make it right; it is right because it has been repeated as being right for countless centuries. Also, truth may be objective, yet we can not see it. And, to say that all truth is relative is a paradox, not to mention a false statement.
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:09 pm
i will make you hurt chessiejo if everything is as subjective as all that, then there is no reality at all, and we cannot talk to each other because our language does not refer to the same objects. Well, if we use Cartesian Skepticism, I only know that I exist for sure at this moment, and that is the only truth that I can know is absolutely certain. I do not know what I am, if I am a physical object, or purely mental, or even something else, but, I do know that I am. Now, if I want to function in this 'reality' I have to accept that it is real, otherwise, I will be ostracized, and that is something that would hinder my functioning in this 'reality.' Now, on the term truth, itself, truth is nothing more than that which has been repeated enough times so that a majority of the people in a society believe it. E.g. Euclids triangle proof; it may be wrong, we do not know, and just because we don't have the means to test it completely, doesn't make it right; it is right because it has been repeated as being right for countless centuries. Also, truth may be objective, yet we can not see it. And, to say that all truth is relative is a paradox, not to mention a false statement. which is why rene descartes sucks. rationalist minimalist, he ruined the world of ideas.
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:22 pm
chessiejo i will make you hurt chessiejo if everything is as subjective as all that, then there is no reality at all, and we cannot talk to each other because our language does not refer to the same objects. Well, if we use Cartesian Skepticism, I only know that I exist for sure at this moment, and that is the only truth that I can know is absolutely certain. I do not know what I am, if I am a physical object, or purely mental, or even something else, but, I do know that I am. Now, if I want to function in this 'reality' I have to accept that it is real, otherwise, I will be ostracized, and that is something that would hinder my functioning in this 'reality.' Now, on the term truth, itself, truth is nothing more than that which has been repeated enough times so that a majority of the people in a society believe it. E.g. Euclids triangle proof; it may be wrong, we do not know, and just because we don't have the means to test it completely, doesn't make it right; it is right because it has been repeated as being right for countless centuries. Also, truth may be objective, yet we can not see it. And, to say that all truth is relative is a paradox, not to mention a false statement. which is why rene descartes sucks. rationalist minimalist, he ruined the world of ideas. So, Descartes sucks for coming up with the only absolutely certain truth we can know, and than trying to go farather (though, he fails miserably in his attempts after the 'cogito ergo sum')? Descartes paved the way for so many other philosophers, e.g. pragmatists, and many others. Though, they may not have agreed with him, they worked off of him, to get where they are now. By the way, the truth, term is purely my own idea.
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:28 pm
i will make you hurt chessiejo i will make you hurt chessiejo if everything is as subjective as all that, then there is no reality at all, and we cannot talk to each other because our language does not refer to the same objects. Well, if we use Cartesian Skepticism, I only know that I exist for sure at this moment, and that is the only truth that I can know is absolutely certain. I do not know what I am, if I am a physical object, or purely mental, or even something else, but, I do know that I am. Now, if I want to function in this 'reality' I have to accept that it is real, otherwise, I will be ostracized, and that is something that would hinder my functioning in this 'reality.' Now, on the term truth, itself, truth is nothing more than that which has been repeated enough times so that a majority of the people in a society believe it. E.g. Euclids triangle proof; it may be wrong, we do not know, and just because we don't have the means to test it completely, doesn't make it right; it is right because it has been repeated as being right for countless centuries. Also, truth may be objective, yet we can not see it. And, to say that all truth is relative is a paradox, not to mention a false statement. which is why rene descartes sucks. rationalist minimalist, he ruined the world of ideas. So, Descartes sucks for coming up with the only absolutely certain truth we can know, and than trying to go farather (though, he fails miserably in his attempts after the 'cogito ergo sum')? Descartes paved the way for so many other philosophers, e.g. pragmatists, and many others. Though, they may not have agreed with him, they worked off of him, to get where they are now. By the way, the truth, term is purely my own idea. it is useless for me to spoeak to you, because your treality is entiurely subjective. my words have no meaning for you, they are only ungrounded echoes spinning in the relativity of your interior cosmos.
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:56 pm
chessiejo it is useless for me to spoeak to you, because your treality is entiurely subjective. my words have no meaning for you, they are only ungrounded echoes spinning in the relativity of your interior cosmos. Please keep it civil cheesiejo. He's just expressing his views.
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:02 pm
Captain Jack Sporky chessiejo it is useless for me to spoeak to you, because your treality is entiurely subjective. my words have no meaning for you, they are only ungrounded echoes spinning in the relativity of your interior cosmos. Please keep it civil cheesiejo. He's just expressing his views. Yes, please do keep your cool, it will only make your argument look less immature. Also, be respectful of others beliefs, the main rule of the guild is respect, now, if I am taking this the wrong way, I apologize for my error. And for the record, these may or may not be my own personal views, these are just views that I am expressing to try to counter your views. Lastly, if I have given the impression that I am trying to say that truth (besides the existence of self), is subjective, I apologize, for that in itself is a completely incorrect statement, not to mention a paradoxical statement; for example, consider the phrase "all truth is subjective" that means that if I believe that I know everything, I do, now, I can tell you from experience that everyone that I know, myself included, does not know everything; I would also wager to say that there is no person who does know everything. I do not know everything, because I make mistakes; if I knew everything, I would not make mistakes. Now, with Cartesian Skepticism, I am trying to paint a picture in your mind, that there is only one absolute truth, that we 'can' know at this moment. That truth is that we exist; we know this because we must think, and to think must mean we are something, and if we are something, then we must exist. After that, we do not know what is truely true; this is where I take on the positivist philosophy (which is closely related to pragmatism). And I will leave you with this, I myself am a nihilist/pragmatist/satanist(satanist philosophy, not religion).
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:33 am
i will make you hurt Captain Jack Sporky chessiejo it is useless for me to spoeak to you, because your treality is entiurely subjective. my words have no meaning for you, they are only ungrounded echoes spinning in the relativity of your interior cosmos. Please keep it civil cheesiejo. He's just expressing his views. Yes, please do keep your cool, it will only make your argument look less immature. Also, be respectful of others beliefs, the main rule of the guild is respect, now, if I am taking this the wrong way, I apologize for my error. And for the record, these may or may not be my own personal views, these are just views that I am expressing to try to counter your views. Lastly, if I have given the impression that I am trying to say that truth (besides the existence of self), is subjective, I apologize, for that in itself is a completely incorrect statement, not to mention a paradoxical statement; for example, consider the phrase "all truth is subjective" that means that if I believe that I know everything, I do, now, I can tell you from experience that everyone that I know, myself included, does not know everything; I would also wager to say that there is no person who does know everything. I do not know everything, because I make mistakes; if I knew everything, I would not make mistakes. Now, with Cartesian Skepticism, I am trying to paint a picture in your mind, that there is only one absolute truth, that we 'can' know at this moment. That truth is that we exist; we know this because we must think, and to think must mean we are something, and if we are something, then we must exist. After that, we do not know what is truely true; this is where I take on the positivist philosophy (which is closely related to pragmatism). And I will leave you with this, I myself am a nihilist/pragmatist/satanist(satanist philosophy, not religion). Of course, Cartesian Skepticism doesn't say there are no other truths... nor that we will never find them 3nodding ...at least to my knowledge. Which really isn't much.
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:13 pm
Naeryn Of course, Cartesian Skepticism doesn't say there are no other truths... nor that we will never find them 3nodding ...at least to my knowledge. Which really isn't much. Well, with the method involved to find truth in Cartesian Skepticism, right now, the only absolute truth is that we exist. If you look at my previous posts, and this one as well, I tend to be very vague about the future if I mention it at all. Cartesian Skepticism is the throwing away of everything that has the possibility to lie to you, e.g. the senses. Thinking is special, because, no matter what, it cannot lie to you. You are either thinking it, or you are not; you cannot think something that you did not think (hopes that last sentence makes sense).
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:31 pm
An interesting path of consideration...however, I would like to post a question:
We've already established that, in the current vein of thought, that truth is subjectively invalid. However, what does Cartesian Skepicism say about sencerity?
I know that some of this hyper-philosophical stuff is really causing people some pain...it's designed to do that. Questions hurt your perceptions of reality to test it, and see if you are really thinking. However, I'm trying to consider the other side of the coin here...in the Cartesian Skeptic system, we've proven that truth that is non-existential is invalid. However, what about sencerity? I'm not particularly well versed in Decartes, being a logician and a ethnitian, so I'm honestly curious as to what the view might offer.
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:08 pm
I believe everyone should respect everyone others religions and not condemn people because only their God(s)/Goddesse(s)/Diety(ies) can condemn them to thier Heaven or Hell.
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:36 pm
Personally, I believe we all go to the same place when we die.
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:03 pm
My belief: you shouldn't push someone into your own believes. If you feel compelled to show them that you're right and they should conform please do so politely. I can't tell anyone (or thinkof anyone) as going to hell for not having the same belief as me or for having a belief I think is wrong because people change. And I might be wrong. For all you know YOU might be wrong too. See? It's just easier to not push. And to stop judging. That could make the world such a better place.
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