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All I said is that having an only is not for me and my opinion. I don't see where I or anyone else said that all only children are selfish. I interpreted Dirge's post as saying the only children that she's MET, not all of the only children in the world. Of course I can't claim to never judge, but I'm not going to be a hypocrite of being from a large family saying they should have stopped at 1, ya know? Yes, a large family is not something I would do myself, but just based on a number of children I can't judge that. I don't think most good parents who have more than one DON'T spend all their energies focusing on raising their children the best they can. It's what works for them and you.

I didn't take any resentment from the "two kids = one too many" opinion nor am I taking any resentment from comments about large families. I posted negatives AND positives of being part of a large family, rather than just glorifying the idealistic parts. I didn't say it would guarantee learning those skills, just what I learned from being in a large family.

Yes, they put themselves out there in the public and ARE way out there compared to today's standard. There is some things that just seem off about them, but like I previously stated, it just bugs me the most that they get loads of publicity for doing something that many other large families do all the time.

Understand it's nothing personal!

There's having responsibility, and having TOO MUCH responsibility at a certain age, and also the necessity idea.

I think... when a child has SOLE responsibility for their sibling, that's wrong. It's one thing for everyone to pitch in and help, but another when one child is soley one other child's mother/father... the parents should spend at least SOME time with their children, as much as they are able. I mean, one sibling being more in charge of their other siblings is okay... but, then, each child should get special "parent time" a couple times a week or something... making them feel like they are unique.

My mom died when I was 11. I was 14, and I was doing all the chores, and taking care of (making sure he did his homework) my little brother. My father... barely spent any time with us. Even on the weekends, we were lucky to get a couple hours between the two of us... You know, he had more time AVALIABLE than that... and we didn't get any of it... it was "leave me alone"... that's wrong. Parents should be ACCESSIBLE to their children, when home.

I don't know if that made any sense, though.

Oh, and I agree with Shoujo about the skirts. So what? That's their opinion, and wearing their idea of modest clothing is not a bad thing, as long as they believe in why they're doing it.

Here's the thing you can believe based on your religion be it Muslim, or Orthodox Jewish, or Fundemental Mormonism and I can still believe that belief whether rooted in religion is wrong and degrading and belittiling of women.

AND while I apologize for offending anyone I will not apologize for saying it because it is MY belief.

While I don't want my daughters out their in hoochie tops and thongs. I think they have the right to dress "as men" I don't believe in societal or religious restrictions on dress and I personally believe they are denigrating to women. I ALSO find it disgusting that in that Duggar family only the girls ever work in the kitchen (they never said it but every time they showed the kids cooking dinner it was girls only). Granted they also let the girls help build the house, but ultimately when it comes down to it my educated guess is knowing their politics (Fundementalist Christian) they're raising their girls to be bare foot and pregnant. And while I'm a SAHM I'm not doing this because "MY PLACE" is to please my husband and bear children for him.

I don't believe in any religion. I'm an atheist. And without entirely turning this into a religious deabate. I do believe that a lot of restrictions on women's clothing is historically put in there so men feel better about their sexual desire. I don't think if there is any God he gives one flip about the way people dress man or woman. AND an fair God certainly wouldn't be more concerned with how a woman dresses. I think it's in religious texts and belief as a long standing mark of historical patriarchy and opression of women.

And you know what, my two year old is like a billion times more immodest in a freaking skirt than in a pair of pants. Because have you ever tried to get a two year old to stop rolling on the floor and sticking her legs in the air and doing splits, and lifting her skirt up over her head to "hide"? s**t it gets even worse if she's gone to the bathroom and took off her panties without me knowing it, now that she goes pee by herself. Sure I can make her stop doing it in the moment but she of course forgets and is doing it again in no time.

And finally though it really has no real play in my overall belief abou thte fact that women should "cover their heads or wear dresses," I personally uncomfortable in dresses and skirts. I find them fussy, formal, and that I feel naked all the damned time under them.

I disagree.

When you were raised in an extremely closed family without any external influences, it's very difficult to even have your opinion, let alone fight for it in a household setting.

Er...I don't know if you were just putting the point about getting the college education first as a sort of..."I want to be a SAHM but am currently getting my education" random comment...or what.

But just to clarify if it was perhaps if any part of it was written in assumption that I do not have a college education. I DO have a college education. I have a dual degree (BA) in English and Spanish. My husband's dual degree (BS) is in Philosophy and Computer Science (yes, he actually got a BS in BS)

We went back to our senior year of college two weeks after having my child. Lissa spent her first nine months on a college campus practically from 8:00 to 8:00 every day.

I was actually referring to Nopen's post, not Niko's, at the beginning of the thread.. The one with the attempt at baiting sarcasm.

I don't see how a long skirt is any less protective in a construction situation than long pants, since I did watch that episode of the show and don't recall any of the girls being up on ladders or anything, but it did strike me as odd that none of the kids wore eye protection. That's just stupid.

The standards of tznius/modesty in Judaism don't apply to a two year old; they don't begin to apply until a child begins to be recognizable as being of one gender or the other - some authorities say age three, some say seven. Some very leniant communities let the issue slide until the age of bar/bat mitzvah, which is 12 for girls and 13 for boys, but that's much more uncommon. And as Rose pointed out, men have relatively strict standards they have to dress by too, so it's not especially degrading to women.

Believe what you want, but don't be a d**k about it. Implying that these people are somehow doing a wrong to their children by dressing them in a certain way, presumably according to religious beliefs, is being a d**k about it.

ninja

Blarg... sorry to be a b***h here, but I'm going to make a seperate religious discussion thread, and all religion-related topics/discussion can be moved there. I do realize the skirt issue is tied to the Dugger family, but I kinda feel this thread is keep off topic. No offense to anyone.