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Lots to talk about Marth… Lots indeed.. For one thing it was primarily thanks to him and Roy actually that most people got introduced to Fire Emblem. It was fairly popular but mostly in Japan so it wasn’t exactly known too well. He made his huge debut in smash bros Melee along with Roy because well he was the new protagonist at the time. Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade was pretty darn new at that year. But yeah, he’s my favorite character to play as in both Melee and Brawl. And yes, the original Nes art of him pantless in Dark Dragon is pretty amusing to see. And everyone makes fun of it and all that~

Now onto the character himself I feel in the older titles(I’m mostly talking about FE1/3) Marth is kind of not that interesting of a lord. I wouldn’t go as far to say he’s bland but there’s just not much to him as an actual character. He’s the descendant prince of Anri who saved the world from Medeus and there’s really not much to him beyond that. The game itself is fairly simplistic and I do respect that about that game. The interactions he goes through are actually interesting and there some good conversations, but it doesn’t really develop him any further. It’s the relationship between him and Sheeda that I like and the only pairing between a prince and princess that I do enjoy.

Now, FE11/12 Marth is actually a bit more interesting. For one they actually gave time to give Marth a background, and like you actually get to see the events that happened once Marth’s kingdom. The point in where Altea was being betrayed by Durhua and Marth was a younger prince of age. I mean the older game had an explanation but you never really got to see it. That was never explained in Book 1, only in the anime(Which I’ll get to that later in the other spin off series) Marth is also an idealist and he doesn’t want his comrades to die, but he actually can be childish at times. I really like this version of marth myself. So it’s definitely a step up from before and I agree with Tiki about the localization, they did such a fantastic job with it. And even FE12 had the same kind of localization and it worked so well if not even better than FE11. I really liked the way they handled the narrative in Book 2, even if it does have its share of problems and the score is very good too.

As a unit however, in the originals he had pretty nifty animations but the highest caps were only 20. And weapons levels were different because it was a different time. But in FE11 he could rise up all the way to 30, so I suppose in that sense it does make him better. His signature special weapon is the rapier only a weapon that he can use himself. It’s great against mounts and armored foes which is decent enough. His growths aren’t really something to talk home about, but it’s enough to fend enemies off at least. It’s almost the same idea with FE12 but in a straight comparison, I think he does have better growths in that game. He’s not one of my favorite lords, but I still do like him as popular as he is.

I said earlier about some spin offs and such. I do know that there is some mangas but I’ve never really gone through them. But there actually at one point inspired an 90’s OAV anime, which I’ve seen plenty of times. Fire Emblem fans have mixed feelings towards this anime and the reason is understandable. IT’S ONLY TWO EPISODES LONG. It’s fairly short in terms on how long an anime would usually run. But me personally, for what it’s worth I actually find it entertainingly on an enjoyable level. Marth and Sheeda however is actually kind of downplayed. No, let me take that back, it’s sheeda that’s downplayed but Marth is closer to his Snes counterpart. But I’ll admit they at least gave him a bit more characterization and he‘s kind of likable. It also doesn’t help that both of Sheeda’s voice actress is unbearable. The character is just an entirely different character. The other characters have some screen time and they’re very fun. I do find Navarre so fascinating.. and I don’t find the archetype all that interesting. But here it’s somehow very different, and I always wondered if the anime continued how they would explore it more… But I’ve gone off topic long enough. So I generally like him more in his Ds games as I’ve said and just a great improvement and fantastic localization team!

I do love the FE OVA. 90's anime styles, 90's cheese, and FE. Yes please.

Fire Emblem lords are based on very similar stuff for the most part, which I think is somewhat justified by the role the main character takes in the gameplay (the commander of an army), and the tone that most games in the series have. Marth set the mold, and future lords made their tweeks and innovations. If you ask a huge group of FE fans who their favorite lords are, however, you'd get a whole bunch of different answers. There are a lot of factors in their individual games that shape how we see them, and how they get to express themselves through the gameplay and story and so forth.

Interesting that you bring up FE12's prologue. I also felt like it was trying to force Marth's image a bit too much. The unending praise is a bad habit FE really needs to drop. Are they afraid that the story isn't enough to make us see these themes? Did they just want to bring some of that conflict into the MU-centric prologue and didn't know how to do it? Mystery of the Emblem has some pretty powerful stuff. I remember looking on the internet after the Heroes of Shadow patch came out and seeing people respond to the end of Chapter 1 for the first time. Needless to say, some people really didn't expect the game to take such a dark turn so early, and Marth bears witness to all of that and more front and center.

Token gameplay mention: Marth can steal from chests using the Fire Emblem. How many lords can do that?

I disagree that FE12's prologue is being forceful with Marth praise. We don't see much of Marth during the whole thing, which is something I both liked and was sad about.

The praise he gets is from the perspective of fresh recruits in love with their country and king, looking up to him as a hero. It paints a regal and almost intimidating image of our main lord and once we get him and continue through the story, we can see that he's actually a big softy, but still worthy of the love of his people.

*shrug* different opinions, yay?

Here we are, We Know it's Too Late.
Hoping only to find some closure..!
Silently waiting, Hear the calling..!
Look into the wanting eyes, my Cherished!

Now we are here, We know its too late!
Hoping only to find some closure,
Silently waiting, Hear the calling!
Look into the wanting eyes, My Cherished!

I think it's funny that when I first joined FEF, I was so down on FE10 all the time. Now I'm more mellow about it and everyone else slams it all the time. I still think it's rife with bad writing decisions that poo on one of my favorite FEs, but it has a lot of notable things about it in story and gameplay.
Nowadays, whenever Micaiah comes up, I always say the same exact thing.

The term "Mary Sue" needs to die.

As if what makes a good or bad character can be boiled down to a list of traits. Even the oh-so-referenced Mary Sue Litmus test has a disclaimer that states that it only looks at the "symptoms," and not the "disease." Even the original "Mary Sue" was a parody of such a character in self-insert fanfiction and not something to be taken seriously. At this point, with all the people that are so ready to spew the term at any character that they don't like who has so many "speshul" traits.

A good character isn't a character that doesn't have so many of these traits. That's why things like "anti-sues" exist. A good character can be as special a snowflake as they want. They just have to be well written. In many cases, having so many of these traits just make it harder to balance in a convincing way, and someone that piles them on a character just for the sake of themselves is more likely to not know what they are doing.

I actually did a little bit of thinking about Mickey because of this thread. Celice's observation that Micaiah was one of the few lords that breaks the mold got me thinking. In a lot of ways, I agree. I just don't think she (and most of the game) were executed very well.

Mickey is made to do terrible things for the sake of a country she loves. Daein doesn't exactly have a clean history, and we get this character who fights for the people, and as she gets further and further up the political latter, she gets more entrenched in corruption and gets more corrupt herself, until it is all washed away. With the multiple viewpoints, we could have seen her as awful from far away, and as a good person forced to do bad things up close. Mickey herself isn't even as present during the final part, at least not technically. She is even asked if she wants to kill Pelleas herself. Not an easy decision, to be sure. She might have his blood on her hands for the rest of the game, and pointlessly. Not to mention, that animation of her hugging Rafiel during part 1 is just adorable, n'awww. Also, Father of Sothe's Children? Priceless.

My biggest beef with Micaiah as a character is that she is an addition to the Tellius canon that comes almost completely out of nowhere, yet steals so much of the thunder from so many other characters. I know that when it comes to those oh-so-heated Ike vs. Mickey debates, whose game RD actually is often comes up. Some people think that Mickey steals the thunder, and other think that Ike steals the thunder from Mickey and everyone else even though he already had his own game. I think Ike did all of his growing in PoR and doesn't really make any interesting advances in RD, so I think handing it off to another lord is fine (Elincia! ELINCIA!). But Micaiah suddenly appears and breaks so much of PoR's established canon, which is what makes her various abilities stand out. Characters like Mist are pushed to the sidelines while any importance they may have had is given to Micaiah. Sanaki has some interesting conversations when she starts doubting her position as apostle, but I hate how she just wants to GIVE Begnion to Mickey even though she has just been discovered as the true apostle, just so that MICKEY has to tell her to keep it. Little things like this really did sour her in my head. It's not how much presence she has, it's how much she steals from the other characters. Ike already had his own game to be a character and develop. Mickey has to break the world in order to fit in.

But.... It's not just Mickey that suffers from things like this. Just because the blood pact is such a bad pot device (in my opinion), doesn't mean that Mickey is alone in having to adhere to it. Mickey's writing is inconsistent, but so is that of so many characters, some more obvious than others (Astrid, anyone?). It's not Mickey's fault that the story skips the conquering of most of the important Daein fortresses in part 1 so that when everyone starts worshiping her, it is creepy as hell and comes out of left field. But it reflects badly on her as a character (especially on her since she's pretty much the face of the game even if you agree that Ike steals the spotlight), as it does for so many others.

Where I think Mickey's unusual place manifests the best is, believe it or not, in the gameplay. She's not the best lord, sure, but there is no other lord quite like her. She uses light magic and eventually staves, and even though she is frail and slow, and opens the door for fun combinations like sacrifice/wrath. She's best as a healer, and since she is a main lord, she is required to use, you might as well make the best of her. And THANI, freaking Thani! It's not just an effective weapon, it's a TOME. Armored and mounted units don't stand a chance against that nuke! So she's a glass canon with some fun aspects that really set her apart.

There are a lot of people who like Micaiah, and I always think it is interesting to hear fans talk in detail about why they like her so much, since there is usually a lot of great content in there that I myself just don't derive from her or from RD as a whole. It's interesting stuff and it makes me wish I could enjoy her more, or that she was a better written character.

Here is the problem with so-called Mary Sues: when people are discussing whether someone is or isn’t one, EVERYONE needs to have the same definition and this virtually never happens. And Micaiah demonstrates that.

Some people would argue that the Silver Haired Maiden of rare ancestry who can heal people without staves on the spot like Jesus and can hear the voice of a deity like Jesus and doesn’t initially know her true heritage or family like an orphan and who becomes the leader of a army without much war experience very quickly (sorry Taureneo, even with all your years of military experience, the new girl is going to outrank you) is the textbook example of a Mary Sue.

And some would argue it isn’t a Mary Sue at all because some argue being a Mary Sue requires you to be perceived as perfect and never making a mistake and never having any flaws with how special you with powers no one else possesses not factoring into the equation.

I’ve honestly seen thorough arguments from both camps. Bottom line, we need to drop that term and actually critique the character in question directly without relying on that term. If someone would be a Mary Sue and that is bad, point out why that character is bad without relying on the term. If someone is a complex character of interest, point out those points. The term at this point is a crutch and insufficient for pointing something out. With that out of the way, I’ve been without my Wii back in Texas for a good long while no, so I’m largely working off my memory.

I agree with everything Tiki said. Not going to cover the same territory, but I’ll add a few other quips

I think part of my problem with Micaiah is actually her devotion to her country and how that’s treated. It’s established that she’s traveled across the continent, but she’s put in a situation where she makes it clear she’d essentially rather see every other country around her perish if she can save only Daien and for someone as well-traveled as her, I think that is more problematic. I would LOVE for more morally ambiguous main characters in Fire Emblem, unlikely as that is, but while some would argue Micaiah does get thrown into really grey territory, she’s largely treated as having white morality at worst and questionable morality being swept under the rug as needed at best. If the game would more openly call her flaws actual flaws (better yet; let there be consequences for flaws rather than becoming queen of a happy country with happy endings for all with no one mad at anyone else at the end). This is more the fault of how FE10 handles its story and how it unfolds than Micaiah’s herself, but she as a character does indeed suffer from it, consequently.

It’s quite the contrast how Elincia is willing to lose Lucia if she has to out of duty whereas Micaiah crumbles if Sothe is taken from her. I’ll just throw that out there.

And I think the series needs to try again to do what they tried to do with FE10 and Micaiah. There are a lot of good ideas in there. They just need to be actualized in such a manner that makes them into a great game with great characters. And if and when that happens, Micaiah should be remembered as a prototype on the road to getting to that point.

People trying to say Micaiah is bad as a unit can go home. Or lookup the facts and then be quiet.

Anyway. Micaiah has got to be one of the only characters in the series that I just plain do not like at all. (I find it laughable that somebody is saying that the other RD characters are awful and that other lords are bland. Better back up that radical statement with major support before spewing it around, protip) She was a good idea executed in the worst way. The writers wanted her to be unique and good that it looks like they just threw everything they could at her to sell her character to us and now it just looks like a gaudy overpriced used car.

"she’s largely treated as having white morality at worst and questionable morality being swept under the rug as needed at best."
^TRUTH. Every strategic choice in part 1 is right. What, is she Soren? That's kind of what the game is trying to sell to us. And they do it in the most infuriating way. Izuka comes in and gives the horrible, obviously awful plan and Micaiah just says um actually let's not do that and she's a saint and master strategist. And is her attempt to burn soldiers alive really seen as bad? Tibarn CALLS HER OUT, but does she suffer for it at all? No, everybody just kind of forgets about it and it gets swept under the rug, because she has to be the moral maiden of dawn that is correct. Obvously she struggles and that's good, but none of the bad decisions are really treated as bad after maybe a couple seconds of reflection. Kill Pelleas? Whoops. Okay, let's keep going, nothing to see here.

"My biggest beef with Micaiah as a character is that she is an addition to the Tellius canon that comes almost completely out of nowhere, yet steals so much of the thunder from so many other characters. "
^ THAT is my biggest issue with her. And it's not just characters that are already established, it's characters introduced in RD, too. And for people that think Ike steals her thunder... plz. Go replay the game. Ike is hardly in it and gets no development. Evaluate correctly, please.

Anyway, let's pretend Micaiah doesn't exist for a moment (yay!) and see what happens:
- Pelleas suddenly becomes much more relevant and is forced to do his job instead of her being in his way. The game even brings this up, but apparently nobody really cares enough to think it should change, so it's just glossed over. Pelleas has that moment where he's all "I'm going to do it!" but then we don't actually see him do anything and it's still just Micaiah. Wow. (Honestly? He'd be a much more interesting main lord.)
- Sanaki wouldn't get her thunder stolen. I like what they do with Sanaki in 10- I think the game definitely benefited her as a character. But it all goes back to Micaiah in the end and Sanaki is just there after getting dealt a heavy blow.
- Skrimir is a GREAT character. He has great development, he amuses us, he infuriates us, and then we smile as we see him learn. The last we ever see of him is in part 4 where he gets mad at Naesala. Nothing else. We get no resolutions with him. I bring this up because Micaiah steals SO much of the attention in part 4 that other characters get the shaft.
- Elincia is another example of this! She also benefits from the game, I think. Part 2 she shines and she has her moment in 3. Then she's just kind of there.
- Nolan. he's the true leader of the Dawn Brigade. That is canon. Guess Micaiah forgot that somewhere along the line. Now imagine that Pelleas comes into contact with Nolan and the DB and wowowow cool help. (A fighter as an Oguma archetype? Neat)
- FD makes a GOOD point about Tauroneo! It doesn't make sense that he is taking back seat here, but it happens anyway because the focus has to be on Micaiah.
- Mist? The laguz royals? What about these characters that were important in 9 that don't get the attention they deserve now because the game gets so Micaiah happy? The game pays a lot of attention to GeOFFrey, but then he fades away after 2. I don't recall any real closure between Tibarn and Naesala after the whole betrayal thing. we're not going to get more context to the wolves there so that they're just just there to be new sex appeal laguz? We have a new heron character... that we barely get to see. WOWOWOW RENNING IS ALIVE. Okay let's forget about it now.

The focus of the game is primarily on Micaiah. While as a main lord, she should get a lot of attention, it doesn't work when she's stealing it from other people. Although she does have help with that because the Black Knight steals a lot of attention as does Sephiran. But getting annoyed at Sephiran being the dumbest butt will come another day.

Point being made all in all: the poor writing destroys the execution of Micaiah and the game is trying to do too much with her that is forced, overpacked, and steals the thunder of many other characters. I do think she could have been successful if they weren't trying so hard with her.