Welcome to Gaia! ::

Never said that you were teaching it =/
Teaching is a fancy way of saying chapter or placement in a book.
ah...whew....was worried there >o<

Regarding racism within Mormonism, it should be noted that people of all races are now welcome within the mainstream LDS church. I think they recanted the racist teachings back in the 70's or something. As far as I know, it is still a Mormon teaching that God punished the disobedient tribe with dark skin and dark-skinned people are still thought to be the descdescendants of that tribe, but the LDS church doesn't hold it against them. Or something like that.

It seems like Mormonism has had to do quite a bit of back-pedaling for such a young religion. neutral

close...but either way
the ""holy"" prophet said it was so. and so....the ONLY way that they can declare that they are indeed not truly racist is to say that Joseph Smith was not actually a real prophet. or that God lied to him and ALL those who lead the mormons until the change

yeah....
honestly....in my own opinion...I know a christian man should not do such things...but...if I could...I would ensure the slow morbid deaths of every last child molester or rapist in the entire world....to me...its an unforgivable crime....I know its wrong for me to wish death on others and its not my place to levy judgment....but... I cannot help but to think in such a way

I am the only member of my family to have been not born while my biological father was around...hence I was the only one not sexually abused.
but still...my opinion doesnt change. I know its wrong...but I really cannot help it

After skimming through the posts it seems that no mormons have replied so far. I suppose that will make me the first person who is actually in a position to answer your original question, as a mormon myself.

First of all though, I would like to say that you're sending very mixed messages, making it hard for me to figure out whether you are or aren't a troll. First you insist that you're only curious about verified facts and doctrine actually taught by the church, then you post something that is obviously false propoganda:


Well even if you are a troll, I will still answer your question as best I can for the rest of the people reading. The post is rather disjointed so I may miss some things, but I'll share my thoughts about most of your main points.

You asked if certain information is hidden from the Mormon faith or excluded. Everything is online, so obviously nothing is hidden from members, but most things you mentioned are excluded, in the sense that they are not a part of the normal Sunday-school curriculum. This might be because what you said is simply wrong so the church teaches something else, or because what you said regards a doctrine which is now considered false or irrelevant, or because it is an obscure topic so not a lot of time is spent on it.

I can understand why some mormons would leave the church after researching the sorts of things you have researched, but I happen to be a mormon who has researched the things you have mentioned and I've found that my testimony of the church has only increased as I learned more about its history.

Now to refer to some of your specific points of discussion.



This makes no sense whatsoever. The passage of scripture you are talking about refers only to the lamanites, which were a small group of people living in a small part of the world--not everyone with any skin colour other than white. I don't even know how you made the leap to think it had such a broad all-encompassing meaning.



This is an example of a controversial statement by a church leader, one of many other kinds of statements that make some members choose to leave the church. Sometimes such statements are declared as doctrine, but then later renounced and said to be "just the opinion of that prophet". Sometimes the statements are true, but easy to misinterpret. What I have come to realize after a lot of thinking is that people just aren't perfect, prophets or not. Everyone makes mistakes, and if you're in a position of great authority, such as the leader of a church, such mistakes can reflect terribly on the church you lead. As I see it, for the purpose of understanding church doctrine, it is most important to learn what the church focuses on in the present, because if there was something said in the past and God directs his servants to not focus on it in the present, it's either unimportant or plain wrong. I know this might be a hard way of looking at things for some mormons, and perhaps it is not a perfect way of looking at things, but it makes perfect sense to me and that is why no controversial facts regarding the history of the church ever sway me.

Regarding the specific quote that you referred to, these are some of my thoughts regarding it (I haven't researched it so I don't know how right I am, but these are my first impressions after reading it): During the time that that was said, racism was very strong, so it seems to me that he was not referring to skin colour in and of itself, but to the hard position in life that black people had during that time. After all, skin colour is not a punishment or blessing in and of itself, but it is true that throughout history, either due to racism or just culture, people of different skin colours have led different kinds of lives. So in that way, skin colour is symbolic of the type of life a person has. This is less true in modern days where many places are extremely multi-cultural. Regarding his point about how your faithfulness in the premortal existence effected your placement on earth, I don't think it's right to look at it in such a black and white manner (i.e. faithfull were born white, unfaithfull were born black). All I can say is that God placed each of us in a position on earth that he thought was right for us, for whatever reason. I think that was touvhed on in the above quote, but the idea was taken to an extreme which I don't think is accurate.



I don't know where this quote came from, but it certainly isn't what the church teaches. Rather, it's a twisted take on what the church teaches. The entire premise of the paragraph is that because men can have multiple wives in the eternities while women can only have one husband, men must have more worth than women. I don't understand how marriage ratio is related to worth or equality. In fact I'm glad the system is set up like that--if both genders could have multiple eternal marriages then everyone would be connected to everyone else and there would be no contained, individual families.

Regarding your long list of points about skin colour, I will reiterate that skin tone has no significance in and of itself, it is simply symbolic. It is not a curse, but at certain points in history it was used to symbolize the curse of spiritual death that comes as a natural consequence of sin. Also, I noticed you made a bif deal about all the specific times skin colour was changed or not changed, as if it had some great significance. Because it's symbolic it doesn't make much of a difference in the long run, and its silly to see any significance in the places that skin colour didn't change because for all you know it did change and they just didn't write it down.

Regarding polygamy:

Up until one year ago, I thought it was a commandment to not practice polygamy, in the same way it is a commandment to not steal or kill or commit adultery. I thought that god made a special exception for Joseph Smith and company because of the widows and the war--etc. etc. you've heard all these excuses. But then, finally, I set out to find out on my own what the big deal was about polygamy. Although most of my sources were websites talking about how terrible polygamy is, I came to the conclusion that polygamy is not a sin. Nowhere in the bible does it say that polygamy is a sin, it just seems to imply it. In fact, there were a ton of righteous men in the old testament who had multiple wives. Polygamy is bad in the same way that money is bad. Being rich is not a sin, but if you are rich it is easy to fall into the temptation of being proud and greedy etc. etc. all of which are sins. Polygamy is not a sin, but if you think it's perfectly fine to have multiple wives it's easy to cross the line from polygamy to adultery--which is a sin. I'm not saying that polygamy is a good thing-- I personally find the whole idea gross-- but it is not a sin as long as you don't commit adultery and use "polygamy" as an excuse. I believe there is a chapter somewhere in the doctrine and covenants that outlines the difference between polygamy and adultery.

I made a very clear point not to include ANY propaganda in my writings however the videos I have here have a small ammount of both pro and anti mormon propaganda.
though I do every so very much appreciate your joining us
what I study is actual history and the book of mormon as well as the journal of disclosures written by George D. Watt. whom was one of the founders right along side of joseph smith.

here is another quick bit of knowledge relating to it....ALL fact like...about how the changed.
the ONLY propaganda in there is mormon propaganda
watch it all the way through before you comment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFP6VUGwmAg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5_L1coztJ4
lol this one though...it has some propaganda in it...though its done purposefully. to draw out the truth. he uses ONLY words of the book of mormon. takes NOTHING out of context he just emphasizes it all and calls out the mormons on it and mocks them
however....if you can get over such a small little thing.
which...if you faith is strong...should be nothing to you.
watch them.....and just come to understanding. I am not going to tell you to leave your religion...I am just going to say.
do not live in ignorance.
YOUR book says these things....and I wanted an explanation....that is all

I do not and will never lie....not about beliefs of anyone....such is sacred.
you should really read the book of mormon.....those were DIRECT quotes.
before the 70s the mormon church NEVER denied the words in their book. saying that ALL blacks were cursed.
if you refuse this or call it a lie...then you are denying Momonism.
your book of mormon is racist...there is no way around it.
it says that if a man is black. he is cursed and it DOES say...that if he repents and lives a pure life within Mormonism...then he will turn white and be able to come into the kingdom of heaven.
though...I pose this question to you


you are incapable of denying racism in the book of mormon....unless you truly think that you can be so blind that you think the WHOLE world is just outright lying and you refuse to look into your own book.
SO!
the book of Mormon is indeed racist....its just there...no denying it or trying to maneuver your way around it.
but in the 70s the mormon church withdrew their racist doctrine. though the book of mormon remained the same. however.
Blacks can now become Mormon priests and are welcome into the church.
so....who was wrong?
only three ways to answer.....either...God is racist......or God lied.....or....Joseph Smith was a liar.
those are the ONLY three ways to answer. choose one
or just try and BS us in maneuvering your way around it all .......again