SinfulGuillotine
real eyes realize
SinfulGuillotine
They're simply figures who may, in some situations, be better-suited to talk to God about certain topics on our behalf, because of special knowledge or experiences they may have had.
That raises a couple of more questions: Jesus said our Heavenly Father already knows what we need before we ask (Matthew 6:8 ), so why is the special knowledge of the deceased necessary? More of a rhetorical question, but who is better-suited to talk to God than Jesus and the Holy Spirit, both of which are called our intercessors (Romans 8:26-27, 34)?
Quote:
Romans 8:26-27, 34 (NIV)
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
[...]
34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
[...]
34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Quote:
Hebrews 7:25 (NIV)
25 Therefore he is able to save completely[a] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
Footnotes:
a. Hebrews 7:25 Or forever
25 Therefore he is able to save completely[a] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
Footnotes:
a. Hebrews 7:25 Or forever
Concerning the Rich Man who went down to hell (Lk 16:19-31): instead of asking Abraham to send Lazarus back to life, why not ask Abraham to make intercession for his family, asking YHWH to open their eyes to the truth of hell and paradise? Righteous Abraham, who is called "God's friend" (James 2:23), could've put in a good word by that logic, but no, he didn't make intercession, he said "let them read Moses and the Prophets". It seems like only Jesus and the Holy spirit have the right to make intercession with our Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit dwells inside of our bodies, so only in the living (and Yeshua has a resurrected body, he's living too). Those in Sheol—in paradise or hell—have not been raised to life yet. In the Old Testament examples where people ask for intercession, they ask a person that is righteous and/or anointed with the Holy Spirit, and alive (1 Samuel 7:5, 1 Kings 13:6). To clarify, I'm not saying Abraham didn't believe in intercession; he clearly made intercession for Sodom while he was alive (Gen 18:16-33), but is not interceding once he "crossed over". Why is that? A man who would intercede for the corrupt in life, wouldn't change his will in death. Logical conclusion: it's not possible for him to do so anymore or else he would.
OP: I personally am not a fan of practices that outright contradict our Messiah's words or the examples we have in scripture; it makes no difference whether it's a Catholic tradition or Protestant or w/e other division there is out there.
Come on man! This is a great way for both of you to practice your apologetics. Plus I would love to see a Catholic's pov on this so that way I can understand where you are coming from.
