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 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:44 pm
rmcdra Lord Kilo Von Mortenson Fiona Pond To my mind, the more useful question is not "is homosexuality sin?" but rather "is homosexuality any more a sin than heterosexuality?" It seems to me that either is sin to the extent that you allow it to separate you from God. I think that's assuming one and/or the other will separate a person from God, but it also suggests that if neither one does than neither one is a sin. That I agree with. I don't want to speak for her but what I got from her post was that the " question isn't if Homosexuality is a sin, but rather how do you let whatever your sexual preference is separate yourself from God." I could be reading more into it than what is there but that's why I thought her comment was insightful. *nods*
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Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:13 am
As rmcdra touched on, it is important to delineate the OT and NT since as Christians we are under the NT, and will be judged by its standards.
I would say just look at what Jesus says about the old covenant. Many rituals of the OT are unnecessary b/c He did away with it through the way he lived, died, and was resurrected.
Moreover, much of the laws of the OT took on a new meaning. I remember the story about circumcision when Jesus addressed who I think were the Pharisees (i'll check the bible on that) on who was better, the man whose parents upheld the law and had him circumcised or the man who was spiritually circumcised.
Jesus also introduced to people the idea that even a lustful look at another person is adultery, not just the act. Also, the punishment of death is more widely accepted as a spiritual death--something that kills the spirit, moves one from God, and leaves the individual in a empty state.
Personally, the jury is out on this one for me. I have not been thoroughly convinced either way, though I'm waiting for God to make a move and answer me. I know a lot of homo-/bi-sexual people, and I accept them as I do any other human being.
Admonishing people is not my job--I have too many as it is blaugh but I will say, is to pray for guidance and for answers, because as long as a person makes a good faith (pun intended) effort to connect with God and keep the relationship going, you are on the right path.
To me, sins are anything that is put before God in your life. So if your main priority in life is earning money, gaining power, or getting laid you are officially spiritually lost. But sexual orientation isn't an action; it's a state of being, like one's ethnicity or gender. Anyway, I can ponder and ramble on, but the jury is out for me. I'm waiting for their lunch break to end.
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:17 pm
Speaking on this OT, NT thing... God says he is the same yesterday, today and forever... So the same laws that were laid in Leviticus stand... Even still if you wish to argue that down about homosexuality...
Jesus himself says in the NT that sexual idolaters, homosexual offenders etc will not see the kingdom of heaven... End of Story....
God's word is law. Law's must be followed. What's the use in arguing it?
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:56 am
Anon Aegis Speaking on this OT, NT thing... God says he is the same yesterday, today and forever... So the same laws that were laid in Leviticus stand... Even still if you wish to argue that down about homosexuality... Acts 15 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." Colossians 2 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 2 Corinthians 3 12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. Quote: Jesus himself says in the NT that sexual idolaters, homosexual offenders etc will not see the kingdom of heaven... End of Story.... That was Paul and no the word translated as "homosexual" doesn't mean homosexual. We have no clue what it means exactly. Based on the context it's most likely ***** or some equivalent. Quote: God's word is law. Law's must be followed. What's the use in arguing it? Yes Christ is the Law. No one is arguing that.
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:03 am
rmcdra Anon Aegis Speaking on this OT, NT thing... God says he is the same yesterday, today and forever... So the same laws that were laid in Leviticus stand... Even still if you wish to argue that down about homosexuality... Acts 15 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." Colossians 2 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 2 Corinthians 3 12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. Quote: Jesus himself says in the NT that sexual idolaters, homosexual offenders etc will not see the kingdom of heaven... End of Story.... That was Paul and no the word translated as "homosexual" doesn't mean homosexual. We have no clue what it means exactly. Based on the context it's most likely ***** or some equivalent. Quote: God's word is law. Law's must be followed. What's the use in arguing it? Yes Christ is the Law. No one is arguing that. I'm sorry, but I don't believe God would've told the authors to put it in the Bible multiple times knowing that later generations would see the term 'homosexual' as what it is today. Plus. It is always used in the same context... With Sodom and Guemorrah, sexual offenders etc etc etc... What else could it possibly mean? No offense, but if you wish to avoid what is plainly there, then it doesn't make sense to continue this..
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:40 am
Anon Aegis rmcdra Anon Aegis Speaking on this OT, NT thing... God says he is the same yesterday, today and forever... So the same laws that were laid in Leviticus stand... Even still if you wish to argue that down about homosexuality... Acts 15 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." Colossians 2 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 2 Corinthians 3 12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. Quote: Jesus himself says in the NT that sexual idolaters, homosexual offenders etc will not see the kingdom of heaven... End of Story.... That was Paul and no the word translated as "homosexual" doesn't mean homosexual. We have no clue what it means exactly. Based on the context it's most likely ***** or some equivalent. Quote: God's word is law. Law's must be followed. What's the use in arguing it? Yes Christ is the Law. No one is arguing that. I'm sorry, but I don't believe God would've told the authors to put it in the Bible multiple times knowing that later generations would see the term 'homosexual' as what it is today. Plus. It is always used in the same context... With Sodom and Guemorrah, sexual offenders etc etc etc... What else could it possibly mean? No offense, but if you wish to avoid what is plainly there, then it doesn't make sense to continue this.. Yes, the people of Soddom and Gamorrah demanded that they be allowed to gang-rape angels. Clearly, this could not possibly refer to anything but homosexuality as gang-rape is perfectly acceptable behavior, to say nothing of the question of whether angels constitute a different species and that we're talking about an attack on AGENTS OF GOD. Meanwhile, God would not allow anyone to misinterpret the bible or to have passages in the bible which could possibly be misinterpreted. We'd better reinstitute slavery before God gets too irate about our sinful abolition of the clearly biblicly-sanctioned practice. Incidentally, you haven't eaten a cheeseburger have you? *tsk tsk, eternal damnation*
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:26 am
Anon Aegis I'm sorry, but I don't believe God would've told the authors to put it in the Bible multiple times knowing that later generations would see the term 'homosexual' as what it is today. Well why don't you compile a nice list of verses that you think deal with homosexuality and we will put them in context and see if what scriptures say or if there has just been a long history of people projecting what they mean on these verses. If you are going with that then all verses regarding slavery must refer to the horrible chattel slavery system we used to have in the US and was properly justified by the Bible. Quote: Plus. It is always used in the same context... With Sodom and Guemorrah, sexual offenders etc etc etc... What else could it possibly mean? No it's not. Sodom and Gomorrah has to deal with being cruel to foreigners. If it were about homosexuality it would not make sense in the context of Judges 19-20, Ezekiel 16:48-50, Jude 6-7, and Hebrews 13:2 which is compared to being the same sin as Sodom and Gomorrah. Ezekiel 16:48-50 explicitly spells out what the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is. Ezekiel 16 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done. 49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. Not seeing homosexuality in this at at all and you'd think that if Sodom and Gomorrah was dealing with homosexuality, it would say it wouldn't it? Quote: No offense, but if you wish to avoid what is plainly there, then it doesn't make sense to continue this.. I am looking at what's plainly there. What are you looking at?
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:28 am
To me Sin,is the flaw in us,Any God can be trials before us,to one teach us,help us learn,and advance,how can we become wise,and smarter,without learning,you can't =l
The gods,or God in your case,are like parents,or teachings,they love us yes,but they love us enough they help us,
To me Homo,lesbian,or whatever,is unnatural,simpley because i don't think p***s with p***s was ment to be xD,same for the female,but thats how i feel,in honestly,if its out of love,not lust..i guess it wouldn't hurt,but thats not for me to decide,lol.
>.> in Some ways From what i've read,Yeshua/Jesus,could of been Homo,with that one guy who turned on him(which by the way i believe was planned,or Christ already knew,and it was ment to be,who knows.
You have to remember the idea of laying with a man back then is different from now.
i remember watching the movie Alexander the Great,aritostle,said its nothing but giving up to the passion,but when man lay in Knowledge,that is pure.
to me i believe that.
Im pretty much Bi-sexual.
anyway Shukufuku ga arimasu
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:30 am
Fiona Pond Incidentally, you haven't eaten a cheeseburger have you? *tsk tsk, eternal damnation* Along with the other 612 Laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot#Maimonides.27_list It's long eek
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:43 am
Rei_Isayama To me Homo,lesbian,or whatever,is unnatural,simpley because i don't think p***s with p***s was ment to be xD,same for the female,but thats how i feel,in honestly,if its out of love,not lust..i guess it wouldn't hurt,but thats not for me to decide,lol. Bananas disproved arguments by nature and design for quite some time now.
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:14 pm
rmcdra Fiona Pond Incidentally, you haven't eaten a cheeseburger have you? *tsk tsk, eternal damnation* Along with the other 612 Laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot#Maimonides.27_list It's long eek Would take me more than one life to perfect every Single law o_o... some of them i find extremely overboard xD
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:24 pm
Rei_Isayama rmcdra Fiona Pond Incidentally, you haven't eaten a cheeseburger have you? *tsk tsk, eternal damnation* Along with the other 612 Laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot#Maimonides.27_list It's long eek Would take me more than one life to perfect every Single law o_o... Not all of them relate to one person... there are a few for High priests, hired workers, Kings.... most of them can be summed down to the ten commandments of the Christian bible.
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:14 am
rmcdra Anon Aegis I'm sorry, but I don't believe God would've told the authors to put it in the Bible multiple times knowing that later generations would see the term 'homosexual' as what it is today. Well why don't you compile a nice list of verses that you think deal with homosexuality and we will put them in context and see if what scriptures say or if there has just been a long history of people projecting what they mean on these verses. If you are going with that then all verses regarding slavery must refer to the horrible chattel slavery system we used to have in the US and was properly justified by the Bible. Quote: Plus. It is always used in the same context... With Sodom and Guemorrah, sexual offenders etc etc etc... What else could it possibly mean? No it's not. Sodom and Gomorrah has to deal with being cruel to foreigners. If it were about homosexuality it would not make sense in the context of Judges 19-20, Ezekiel 16:48-50, Jude 6-7, and Hebrews 13:2 which is compared to being the same sin as Sodom and Gomorrah. Ezekiel 16:48-50 explicitly spells out what the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is. Ezekiel 16 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done. 49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. Not seeing homosexuality in this at at all and you'd think that if Sodom and Gomorrah was dealing with homosexuality, it would say it wouldn't it? Quote: No offense, but if you wish to avoid what is plainly there, then it doesn't make sense to continue this.. I am looking at what's plainly there. What are you looking at? This is where this conversation ends... The Bible also says it's useless to argue/debate over it... So, this is where it ends.
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:16 am
Fiona Pond Anon Aegis rmcdra Anon Aegis Speaking on this OT, NT thing... God says he is the same yesterday, today and forever... So the same laws that were laid in Leviticus stand... Even still if you wish to argue that down about homosexuality... Acts 15 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." Colossians 2 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 2 Corinthians 3 12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. Quote: Jesus himself says in the NT that sexual idolaters, homosexual offenders etc will not see the kingdom of heaven... End of Story.... That was Paul and no the word translated as "homosexual" doesn't mean homosexual. We have no clue what it means exactly. Based on the context it's most likely ***** or some equivalent. Quote: God's word is law. Law's must be followed. What's the use in arguing it? Yes Christ is the Law. No one is arguing that. I'm sorry, but I don't believe God would've told the authors to put it in the Bible multiple times knowing that later generations would see the term 'homosexual' as what it is today. Plus. It is always used in the same context... With Sodom and Guemorrah, sexual offenders etc etc etc... What else could it possibly mean? No offense, but if you wish to avoid what is plainly there, then it doesn't make sense to continue this.. Yes, the people of Soddom and Gamorrah demanded that they be allowed to gang-rape angels. Clearly, this could not possibly refer to anything but homosexuality as gang-rape is perfectly acceptable behavior, to say nothing of the question of whether angels constitute a different species and that we're talking about an attack on AGENTS OF GOD. Meanwhile, God would not allow anyone to misinterpret the bible or to have passages in the bible which could possibly be misinterpreted. We'd better reinstitute slavery before God gets too irate about our sinful abolition of the clearly biblicly-sanctioned practice. Incidentally, you haven't eaten a cheeseburger have you? *tsk tsk, eternal damnation* You appear to be the type that initiates nonsense. I know exactly where you're headed with that cheeseburger statement and refuse to take part in it... Sayonara.
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:37 am
I kinda wonder where you think she is headed with that statement Anon...
I mean... I am pretty sure I know exactly what law she is referring to in the Old Law, but I wonder what you think she is implying...
It doesn't really have anything to do with sexual orientation, but I think she is just pointing out that people seem to pick and choose from the Law what they will follow and what they won't.
You can't say you are obeying the Law if you only choose to follow "The Ten Commandments" but yet you refuse to acknowledge the other part s of the same Code of Laws...
I think we are very blessed to live in the New Covenant in which the Law has been fulfilled by Jesus Christ, ESPECIALLY since there is so much confusion between so many factions of Christians as to what was meant by some of the old Laws.
Now, the Law that we live by is that of Love, and because of that, we need only focus all of our might on caring and protecting one another, and if we do that, we will be doing what is right. Those who truly follow the Law of Love will automatically observe the Spirit in which the Old Law was bestowed.
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