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 Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:46 pm
I've been stalking this shop for a little now, since Thal showed me her wolf. I loved it! The art, the theme! Everything seemed natural and a bit fun to play. It seems so many shops now a day have gone to being centered around inappropriate things or have gone off the deep end, so to say.
If the shop owner wants to have a rule banning homosexuality they should have every right to do so without being attacked. It's a little sad that things would have to go to a suggestion thread to get things settled.
There are tons of shops out there that allow only homosexual couples and I do not hear of any of them coming under fire. People not into that just stay away. Or if they must have a character in that shop they can easily be altered to fit the shop's standards. It's not fair to claim a shop to be hurtful for wanting to keep to a natural-ish way to have their creatures. Having wolves of a different color is neat, but fur color has nothing to do with instinct. Giving human quality to the wolves to make the RP more interesting makes things easier, but it still has very little to do with instinct. Animal instinct is to survive and keep their kind surviving.
All of that aside, I like to be able to go to a place where this isn't an issue or a major part of a shop. I've seen too many cool places where this topic has come to the main focus and personally it is very upsetting. It would be nice to come into a shop where everyone gets along and respects one another regardless if they agree one a topic or not. Disagreeing with something is not being close minded, it's having a point of view. I can easily say that people who do not want a ban are being close minded to the natural way of things.
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:49 pm
I VERY much agree with this sentiment. I also want to bring up the point, and not offend anyone, but while the ‘keeping things natural’ is a valid argument, it also has its flaws. Aside from defining what "natural" is, the wolves of this shop, while do portray very natural behavior, they also do not portray natural behavior. The wolves here have essentially human language with which to communicate aside from woofs, howls ect. This is not real wolf behavior. The giving of very close to human cognition is not true to realism. As intelligent as wolves are, some of the plots and stories that have been played here are impossible with the level of intelligence real wolves’ exhibit. If you create a character that exhibits "womanizer" personality traits, this doesn't make sense in a realistic natural setting. In fact I think the only sexuality that would make sense in a shop that is going for realism is asexuality, a complete lack of interest, except for when the animal is in heat and desires to procreate. But because we've given the wolves of this shop a higher intelligence, a chance at far more variant personality differentiates, I think this should be left to the owner. I personally think the 3 per owner is a generous option and still keeps to some semblance of realism when it comes to population. Not to mention but it allows some freedom as well. It leaves no one out. A person who doesn't want to have a gay wolf doesn't have to. And they can choose not to have their wolf interact with one that is gay. A person who does want to have a gay wolf now has the option. It restricts no one.
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:49 pm
Ah. I understand, Vista. I hadn't done much research on Wolves as of late. My memory is not that good at the moment. But I hadn't thought about that.
But you do understand what I mean with the parents. Thank you for the clear up.
Natural doesn't always mean the colors of their furs but their mentality as well. It is best to stick to the actual wolf customs. We don't want this shop to become another copycat so to speak.
I for one, love how this shop is. I do understand about where Vista is coming from. A shop does not HAVE to have gays, lesbians or bisexuals in the shop. There is no rule that it has to be done that way. But at least Vista is letting us do a poll on that, giving her our opinions about it.
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:56 pm
Daeril-sama I VERY much agree with this sentiment. I also want to bring up the point, and not offend anyone, but while the ‘keeping things natural’ is a valid argument, it also has its flaws. Aside from defining what "natural" is, the wolves of this shop, while do portray very natural behavior, they also do not portray natural behavior. The wolves here have essentially human language with which to communicate aside from woofs, howls ect. This is not real wolf behavior. The giving of very close to human cognition is not true to realism. As intelligent as wolves are, some of the plots and stories that have been played here are impossible with the level of intelligence real wolves’ exhibit. If you create a character that exhibits "womanizer" personality traits, this doesn't make sense in a realistic natural setting. In fact I think the only sexuality that would make sense in a shop that is going for realism is asexuality, a complete lack of interest, except for when the animal is in heat and desires to procreate. But because we've given the wolves of this shop a higher intelligence, a chance at far more variant personality differentiates, I think this should be left to the owner. I personally think the 3 per owner is a generous option and still keeps to some semblance of realism when it comes to population. That is where I meant when I said I bent them a lot. I am a realistic novel wolf rper. The place I have rped for 10 years in, is finding it difficult to keep this. It is human to do that to the wolves. But the reason why I let it happen here for THAT particular reason Dae is because the humans of Forest Hymn, the kins, they and the wolves must have a way to speak. In which animates the wolves a little humane there. (They do not speak to the humans. As Common and Wolven Tongue are two different things.) I feel what they are saying to the other wolf is in reality what their chuffles would say. That is my bend in nature. :>. Also, before you say the kin have anything to say about it. They already have a heterosexual fashion of thought. They are nordics or based on the Norse Vikings :>;. Lol. Very old fashioned.
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:57 pm
Hi Gun, been a while. No one is attacking, vista, and certainly hope no one is or she feels that way. We are discussing the subject matter. I have seen many shops fall to inappropriate content, and even further, with drama toward said people for their choices. All of which I would like to avoid. This shop is far too nice and awesome to fall, it has great potential!
Agreed with daeril.
It came to my attention a while ago, I scanned the front page quite often and the guild, excluding the life-mate thread, and saw nothing regarding sexuality. But that is what this is for, but prior, how were we to know?
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:58 pm
If I had a gay wolf in this thread NO I wouldn't make them an alpha or beta they wouldn't even BE in a pack honestly. Because that's just a whole 'nother can of worms so to speak I wouldn't want to open.
This place is already 1. NOTHING like soq or other such shops. and letting people have one or three gay chars they truly want in a shop they love won't hurt anything..it wouldn't even be about sex or 'humping' or whatever else.
As I said..if I had a gay char they would be rped out not just oh HEY LEMME MAKE A GAY WOLF JUST CAUSE ITS TOTALLY RAD! 8D' No...I make my chars that way after rping for a long period of time and, honestly most of my chars in this shop are females..I'm straight..sort of semi curious but, that doesn't matter..I like rping it..I have chars I want in a shop I ADORE. -shrug-
And I understand Vist lovely! As I said before XDD -fluffs- Ilu all again..and I'm going off now..just leaving this be..Vist will pick what she thinks is best.
I respect her choice and this great shop. <3
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:01 am
Okay, I know you all don't even know who I am. But I lurk. So /no/ I'm not a mule. It really sounds kind of stupid when people start accusing others of something like that and then two minutes after they post the third option jumps up to 20+. So I'm not going to accuse of other's using mules, but it doesn't help the argument of 'Respect the thread don't use mules.'
I get where the whole thing is coming from. However, a lot of the argument is that you want it to be natural and not like some other shops (which is kind of rude to me to blatantly point out those shops that run their shop so nearly everyone is happy), but I agree with Wolfie. Pink wolves aren't natural. Sure, you can't change it now, I get that. You also said it has to do with the mentality of things. If that's how it is, than you can't stop a muse. Sometimes they just run into things head first and before they know it they're in love with their best /same sex/ friend or something. Some things just aren't chosen.
I personally feel that if you put this in play you can't really stop it. Sure there would be less obvious homosexuality between the wolves. But I know that I have the IMs of the people in shops I'm in. I would just RP it over IM. You also might just see a decrease in mating or life-ing or w/e, because like I said people would probably just do it behind the scenes. As for in thread stuff, if people want a realistic setting than they don't have to rp with the homosexual wolves. I don't know, it seems like the simplest of solutions. Of if that wont work and it's a pack thing than why not just make a gay pack. Maybe two one for gay lady wolves and another for gay boy wolves. It not only allows people to have that realistic setting for RP, but those who end up having gay wolves can still keep them. Not all gay men are prissy and afraid to be a top dog, not all gay women are butch. So I think they could actually pull off a pack, but that's just what I think
I'm gay an-- ← that argument, doesn't really have anything to do with what is being talked about. I'm sorry to say but it's the same as me saying something racist and then saying “Lol I'm not racist, I have a black friend.” It just doesn't work that way. So while some people justify with that reasoning, it really has nothing to do with anything.
Like I said before, I know I'm not in actually in this shop but I do lurk. So.. Sorry to make a random post at time like this. What ever you do as the owner I'm sure you'll have a lot of people to support you in your decision, this is just my two sense as a lurker. Peace out.
Edit
Oh and, I respect the downsizing it to max of 3 characters. I think it gives shop goers room to breath with out completely snuffing out homosexuality in the thread.
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:02 am
"Don't remind me! I'm a Chickadee in love with the sky... But thats clearly not alot to crow about!!!"
I'm going to be honest. I'm not usually comfortable playing a Gay character and my mind doesn't tend to create them. I have nothing against those that are Bi or Gay, and I have several friends who are. but It personally all comes down to rp to me. thats what is important in my book, I feel like those who do come up with good good stories that if Vist chooses option two or one. I think they would be ok, and interesting to read and see played out.
Addressing my beloved favorite loves who are questioning the "Natural" part, where you say that they aren't real. Your obviously correct, but what it comes down to is how Vist-luffs wishes the shop to be portrayed, the most basic level of understanding is; it's her shop, her rules, her way. We all are fortunate to have someone who gives more freedom, I've been in shops that are flat out scary, and the Hymn is my safety haven I love this joint, and I love the people in it!
You shouldn't look at the "Naturalistic" rule as something bad though, and this goes beyond the Gay/bi aspects.
Take it like I do if you could, I see this, as a restriction to help with my creativity. It is just the limit I like to have because I know just how real to make my characters, how believable I can write them to be. I like that in Roll play, to me RP in essence is writing a story for unique characters. If I didn't have limits I don't think I'd be as interested. When RPing, rules are necessary to make stories believable to not only ourselves but others who read them. That the wolves are to be portrayed as "Natural" is just an easy dictionary definition of "Play how wolves are in the wild" it matches up with the No horns/wings/ ect rule along with the cosplay. The colors of awesome we have for coat colors, are a creative freedom, They are something to make our stories more interesting, and this is where we get the give, take of the shop. Vist is a caring owner. and she does try to make things easy on folks, its just interesting to see when the favor is not returned... I mean. if she wanted she could just say. Eff all y'all. I say no. and be done with it...>.> just some foods for thought.
As far as this topic goes, Gay/Bi rp is interesting to me to read, You really wont catch me writing much of it. I think out of hundreds of characters I've played I've got 1 thats gay. and it was difficult for me to write, but I can do it, I'm a writer, and it's necessary to have a broad imagination. But as far as the shop goes, I think limiting is good. and I say that for the sake of my dear friends who DO have plots and ideas already set up, otherwise I'd say natural all the way... just because it fits with how I see the wolves here... but I mean... thats my personal opinion, as far as I see it I love everyone and just want to see this shop continue to grow and prosper and to make more friends and enjoy the ones I have. =)
>.> -passes out sprinkle covered cookies-
" 'Cause when the stars Silhouette me, I'm scared they'll forget me, and flicker out..."
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:10 am
Hi random lurked with two cents C:
Surf - limitations is a very interesting way to view it, yes. But if not given the opportunity, then howmwold you know a story turned out? Then again, back to a previous post, people could find other places to play that out really. But I do agree with you, this place is a great safe haven.
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:14 am
iMatthew Williams Okay, I know you all don't even know who I am. But I lurk. So /no/ I'm not a mule. It really sounds kind of stupid when people start accusing others of something like that and then two minutes after they post the third option jumps up to 20+. So I'm not going to accuse of other's using mules, but it doesn't help the argument of 'Respect the thread don't use mules.' The post I made was aimed to GENERAL population and less than 10 regulars was on, so.. how in the hell did the votes jump from 3 to 24 in less than 5 minutes? only explanation for that and that is sudden surge of mules being logged on to vote. Why do you have to say "So /no/ I'm not a mule"? Do you really think we are going to accuse everybody in here of being a mule or something? I don't really appericate your tone in that paragraph. But I am not going to post in here any more because I don't want a fight to break out because someone can't read my post properly. One last note: Do you really think using mules to spam votes in a thread when a SHOP owner genuinely wanted our HONEST opinions is respectful? this is not a freaking popularity show where we determine if gay/lesbian fad that seemingly is going on right now will spread into this shop so we can be just LIKE OTHERS or just stay true to the logical breeding system. If you guys can't grow a set and vote just ONCE instead of using mules or dragging people who is not going to even READ the thread and vote honestly, then don't vote at all.
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:17 am
"Knee deep in the water somewhere, got the blue sky breeze, blowin wind through my hair, only worry in the world? is the tide gonna reach my chair..."
You! must now become part of our awesomeness!... Leh-surf has decreed. -isbricked-
Naw we really are all very friendly and happy-go-lucky with one another! I swear! if you've been stalkin you should know that some!
This was just one of those ever present issues that needed to be placed so we could continue with our peace and love and rainbow sprinkle cookie lovin selves. And as it stands, knowing everyone in here. and Loving all of them that I do know, all the regs and new-regs of the shop. I can tell you that we are all more "debating" it then arguing. I hope it doesn't chase you away we really are some entertainingly fun folk! <3 =)
"Mind on a permanent vacation, The ocean is my only medication, Wishin my condition isn't ever gonna go away..."GunSniper I've been stalking this shop for a little now, since Thal showed me her wolf. I loved it! The art, the theme! Everything seemed natural and a bit fun to play. It seems so many shops now a day have gone to being centered around inappropriate things or have gone off the deep end, so to say.
If the shop owner wants to have a rule banning homosexuality they should have every right to do so without being attacked. It's a little sad that things would have to go to a suggestion thread to get things settled.
There are tons of shops out there that allow only homosexual couples and I do not hear of any of them coming under fire. People not into that just stay away. Or if they must have a character in that shop they can easily be altered to fit the shop's standards. It's not fair to claim a shop to be hurtful for wanting to keep to a natural-ish way to have their creatures. Having wolves of a different color is neat, but fur color has nothing to do with instinct. Giving human quality to the wolves to make the RP more interesting makes things easier, but it still has very little to do with instinct. Animal instinct is to survive and keep their kind surviving.
All of that aside, I like to be able to go to a place where this isn't an issue or a major part of a shop. I've seen too many cool places where this topic has come to the main focus and personally it is very upsetting. It would be nice to come into a shop where everyone gets along and respects one another regardless if they agree one a topic or not. Disagreeing with something is not being close minded, it's having a point of view. I can easily say that people who do not want a ban are being close minded to the natural way of things.
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:37 am
I've locked the conversation I do not want this leaked into my main forum more then what it has been..
I didn't want it to get out of hand while I was away. I do not want anymore talk about this. If you full heartedly need to talk me down more then what has happened. Do so in PM.. But I am now tired of this and it's only begun. Thank you for those who pitched in and those who actually got what I was suggesting.
Tomorrow will not be the day I say what's up, why? Because well it's actually today it won't be up because it's 3:33am.
I have to work at 9..
I have a bruised ribcage..
and it's now my fiance's birthday smile . And I plan to enjoy it.
When will I say it? Soon.
I also locked it because it almost got to the point of everyone getting to the throats of another person. I need you guys to be a community no matter MY decision on things. I can not run a shop that is broken.. and if I do run the broken shop then I'll lose it.
But I view'd it more-so in the way of Surf I didn't want to be labelled as fully a naturalist and have the need to tweak my entire wolf-population in this place. I was talking sexuality. Not fur colour.
Anyhow.. Goodnight and I hope you all sleep well. smile .
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Reply
