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 Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:37 pm
Eltanin Sadachbia Oh no... that's not how it went... the Heavenly janitors were the people who didn't do enough witnessing and converting in this life, and they are just happy to spend eternity NOT in Hell. LOL That still kind of is a spit in the face of all the death row people, who converted.. they can't. Besides, we all can't be convertors, some are called to do other things in preparation or the second coming... and the other acts in God's plan for man.
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:47 pm
Southern_cross_nemesis Eltanin Sadachbia Oh no... that's not how it went... the Heavenly janitors were the people who didn't do enough witnessing and converting in this life, and they are just happy to spend eternity NOT in Hell. LOL That still kind of is a spit in the face of all the death row people, who converted.. they can't. Besides, we all can't be convertors, some are called to do other things in preparation or the second coming... and the other acts in God's plan for man. It sounds like a cognitive dissonant way of justify why "witnessing and converting" is a more "holy" behavior than any other activities. It sounds very class-ist to me honestly.
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:53 pm
rmcdra Southern_cross_nemesis Eltanin Sadachbia Oh no... that's not how it went... the Heavenly janitors were the people who didn't do enough witnessing and converting in this life, and they are just happy to spend eternity NOT in Hell. LOL That still kind of is a spit in the face of all the death row people, who converted.. they can't. Besides, we all can't be convertors, some are called to do other things in preparation or the second coming... and the other acts in God's plan for man. It sounds like a cognitive dissonant way of justify why "witnessing and converting" is a more "holy" behavior than any other activities. It sounds very class-ist to me honestly. Agreed...
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:29 pm
Eltanin Sadachbia Southern_cross_nemesis Eltanin Sadachbia Splendid Sailor Venus The word "Saved". If it gets preached to me enough, I alway send up dreaming of playing some RPG contstantly paranoid becuase the words echo in my mind, and I get real paranoid I didn't "save" before the power turned off. Well, not always, but this has happened a couple of times. LOL You are right... It is an overused term. I guess it doesn't get to me so much because it is something I heard so much growing up, and I don't hear it repeated as many times per day as I used to nowadays. But yeah, it is especially annoying when people use the term like they are referring to some Heavenly quota that is supposed to get you a bigger mansion in the sky, or some shiz... ... Which sends my brain on a tangent. The way so many people talk about getting others saved, it kinda degrades those people from people tally numbers. It just seems so impersonal the way some congregations refer to it. If we aren't supposed to worry about having so many earthly possessions, when at times they are needed, why should we worry about laying up treasures in heaven when we shouldn't need a darn thing there... (I know, I know... it's just a thought, I'm not meaning to start a whole discussion on it here. rolleyes ) I don't mean to continue one ether, but.... When someone says heavenly treasures to me, I only picture loved ones that died and gone before or those that will be going. As the saying goes... "the best things, aren't really things... " Eh... take it or leave it.... Yeah, that's how I think... But growing up, the thing was some people would end up with better rewards than others if they worked harder at saving others (like it's something that a person can do). I actually remember a preacher talking about those who made it to Heaven by the skin of their teeth and referring them as heavenly toilet bowl scrubbers. rolleyes It seems to be a common sort of analogy around here. Geez, what your preacher said is both crass and blasphemous. I hope he doesn't actually think that. I know we'll have different talents and gifts (the non-talent kind) and responsibilities, but I'm sure we won't scrub toilets. I can't imagine the need for toilets seeing as they are a man made amenity. But for your friend, maybe he or she previously asked for a sign or something, and then commented. Otherwise, God will move alright. He'll move right on to someone else.
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:03 am
It tends to be an old fashioned mindset around here.
That preacher wasn't the only one with ideas like this, and it tends to influence several Christians around here to be very pushy and overbearing.... the sort that do more damage than good in certain spheres... the sort that would gladly bring back the inquisition (ok, that might be an exaggeration... or... it might not be).
Luckily, we have some better educated pastors who have moved into the area, and many people have learned to tone down their 'voices', and others who stayed back sheepishly because they couldn't get into the 'say it' method of witnessing are stepping forward with the realization that their gifts for reaching out are just as important.
There is a pretty clear line in the sand between those who still adhere to the 'old fashioned' ways around here, and the 'new fangled' way.
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:16 am
Whenever my English teachers find that I overuse certain words excessively, they help me diversify by not allowing me to use those words in following papers (with limited exception).
Like if I use the word happy 15 times in a paper, they will tell me not to use the word happy on the next paper, and as a result I come up with such terms as ecstatic, elated, enjoyed, splendid, etc, etc, depending on context.
I would like to see how successful Christian terstimony can be without the words Jesus, burn, and damnation. Why would I want those words taken out? Because a lot of people are shut down after hearing them, and most any real hope at communication becomes lost. Unless your mentioning of Jesus appeals to their hope, or burnings and damnation appeals to their sense of fear.
I think you could deliver the same message without shutting people down with things they may at first not want to hear. If you just refer to Jesus as a man when telling of the amazing things he did, you invoke a sense of mystery. If the person wants to know more, they may ask who this person was. It establishes communication and interest in a lot of cases.
Then again, being the token atheist of the group, it's not my intent to take away from their intentions. If I interact with a potential convert, sometimes we'll talk about our doubts, worries and fears. If it's another atheist, and he learns I'm an atheist, it always comes up why I'm with these people. And I usually tell them, in a nutshell, because if God is real, these people know him. There's no doubt in my mind about that. But see, that's kind of the thing. I don't believe in God, but something about my being able to relate to others that don't believe, opens them up sometimes. And when you open someone's heart and mind at church... well... things happen.
Not everyone converts. There's quite a few people with hardened hearts out there who think I'm wasting my time with Christian relationships. My Christian friends often think I'm wasting my time with Atheist relationships.
But I don't see it that way. Time is valuable. And when it comes to satisfying the hearts desire for truth and happiness... what more could you ask for?
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:50 am
I find that, in regards to my experience, the best testimony doesn't require words at all. I know it isn't how everyone can operate, but I think more people are supposed to operate this way but don't.
Normally, sooner or later, after getting to know someone, and they me, I am asked what I believe. All I say is, "I am a Christian." That's it. Then, more questions come. Sometimes immediately, sometimes not so much.
It's sad, but most of the time, the next words out of someone's mouth after my answer is, "You aren't like any Christians I know," and I know that they are considering me as better than others.
People shouldn't be turned off by the fact that I am a Christian, but many times they are, and my moment of truthfulness sets back their trust in me. I refrain from saying more after I tell people I am a Christian because most of the time it takes some more interaction for me to gain back the trust I lost with my simple answer. Many people I have become good friends with have told me they felt almost betrayed when I told them what religion I associate myself with.
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:26 am
My approach is similar to Elta's for similar reasons.
I know people are intrigued when I say I'm a gnostic Christian because Gnostic tradition is very little known and often times misportrayed as part of the New Age movement. I explain it's an alternative Christian tradition that makes a distinction between the God of the New Testament and the God of the Old Testament with the OT God, YHVH, being a mischaracterization of God and how Yeshua worked with the Christ Spirit to set the record straight per se. The salvation that Yeshau as a man taught was how to become free from the bondage of worldly systems and his life, death, and resurrection are describing the process of how this is a achieved or rather how the journey starts.
In everyday life I don't advertise that I'm a Gnostic because well too many people who advertise themselves as such are mostly people who want to feel or believe that they are better than others somehow. I try to live a decent life the best I can and do what I can to help others not because of some promise of alleged heavenly rewards but because it's what I believe to be the right thing to do. If one didn't see me at the Episcopal Church I attend in my hometown, one would just pass me off as a secular humanist and I'm fine with that.
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:30 pm
rmcdra My approach is similar to Elta's for similar reasons. I know people are intrigued when I say I'm a gnostic Christian because Gnostic tradition is very little known and often times misportrayed as part of the New Age movement. I explain it's an alternative Christian tradition that makes a distinction between the God of the New Testament and the God of the Old Testament with the OT God, YHVH, being a mischaracterization of God and how Yeshua worked with the Christ Spirit to set the record straight per se. The salvation that Yeshau as a man taught was how to become free from the bondage of worldly systems and his life, death, and resurrection are describing the process of how this is a achieved or rather how the journey starts. you know I have always kind have felt that way about the OT and NT (not bothering with the names though b/c Elohim est Yahweh est Yehovah... we are the ones who forgot his name everything else is like "bob" or "jim") The God of the Old Testament was recorded through the eyes of a people estranged from him, as far apart as the earth from the moon. The God of the New Testament was recorded by people who lived with him and those who knew of him. They saw much more of him but they, being only human, could not fully understand him. I wonder if durring the thousand years their will be a third book? After that I doubt we will need it.
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:03 pm
You called? What do you need from me or my brother? XP...
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