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 Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:50 pm
Obscurus Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Can you explain to me why Christianity is any more valid than any other world religion that has come before or since? It is the only one that believes in salvation by grace, by the doing of God, not by good deeds. And explain why all of this is lining up so perfectly with the book of revelation if it isn't true...you realize in 1948 Israel became a nation again just as it was prophesied in the Book of Ezekiel. And another thing....the bible is the only one that goes into the future such as the book of revelation. Furthermore...since the old testament has been in existence so much longer then the old testament when it says this prophecy? Isaiah 53: 1-10 Quote: 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. Do you realize how far back the book of Isaiah was written? Long before the gospels...do you realize that this is referring to Jesus long before the gospels right? It isn't possible for anyone to be able to trick people with such an elaborate trick such as trying to write something based on an old prophecy that was a lie. What good what that do? Why would anyone have been martyred for someone who they knew was a liar? Why would Jesus's deciples have been willing to die for what he said if they thought it were a lie? I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, I'm not. But I'm just trying to bring up points, the thing is Biblical Christianity isn't a religion, it is a RELATIONSHIP. That is accepting God's son as savior and Lord. I was so confused before I said that prayer, but you got to understand that it is by faith...not because of what we see...when I said that prayer God entered me...That is about as good as it can be explained in the logical mind.... Don't think that I'm attacking you either. I just needed to ask that question. Don't mistake me for someone that doesn't have faith because I believe in a great many things that most people don't, but I don't really see why Christianity is any better than any other religion that's out there. How do I know that Isaiah was written before the birth of Christ? How do I know that prophecy in the Revelation of John is coming true? The language is so vague that it could almost apply to anything, similar to the quatrains of Nostradamus. For the record, I could probably be considered a pantheist and I tend to see the worth in all paths.I see, and I understand what your trying to come to, However have you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? These date back to 100B.C. That is over 500 years before Jesus was said to walk the earth. And there are several other valid reasons to believe it; look up more about this. It is well known that most of Isaiah refers to that. I understand you weren't attacking me, I didn't mean to come off as rude. :swear:
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:09 pm
Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Can you explain to me why Christianity is any more valid than any other world religion that has come before or since? It is the only one that believes in salvation by grace, by the doing of God, not by good deeds. And explain why all of this is lining up so perfectly with the book of revelation if it isn't true...you realize in 1948 Israel became a nation again just as it was prophesied in the Book of Ezekiel. And another thing....the bible is the only one that goes into the future such as the book of revelation. Furthermore...since the old testament has been in existence so much longer then the old testament when it says this prophecy? Isaiah 53: 1-10 Quote: 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. Do you realize how far back the book of Isaiah was written? Long before the gospels...do you realize that this is referring to Jesus long before the gospels right? It isn't possible for anyone to be able to trick people with such an elaborate trick such as trying to write something based on an old prophecy that was a lie. What good what that do? Why would anyone have been martyred for someone who they knew was a liar? Why would Jesus's deciples have been willing to die for what he said if they thought it were a lie? I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, I'm not. But I'm just trying to bring up points, the thing is Biblical Christianity isn't a religion, it is a RELATIONSHIP. That is accepting God's son as savior and Lord. I was so confused before I said that prayer, but you got to understand that it is by faith...not because of what we see...when I said that prayer God entered me...That is about as good as it can be explained in the logical mind.... Don't think that I'm attacking you either. I just needed to ask that question. Don't mistake me for someone that doesn't have faith because I believe in a great many things that most people don't, but I don't really see why Christianity is any better than any other religion that's out there. How do I know that Isaiah was written before the birth of Christ? How do I know that prophecy in the Revelation of John is coming true? The language is so vague that it could almost apply to anything, similar to the quatrains of Nostradamus. For the record, I could probably be considered a pantheist and I tend to see the worth in all paths.I see, and I understand what your trying to come to, However have you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? These date back to 100B.C. That is over 500 years before Jesus was said to walk the earth. And there are several other valid reasons to believe it; look up more about this. It is well known that most of Isaiah refers to that. I understand you weren't attacking me, I didn't mean to come off as rude. :swear: I didn't think you were being rude. Don't worry about it. Discussing religion is usually a minefield though, so I wanted to make sure you knew that I wasn't trying to offend you and that you hadn't offended me. I understand that some Christian/Judaic writings go back thousands of years, but what about religions like Hinduism that go back something like four to six thousand years? Is age the indicator for what is the most valid?
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:18 am
Obscurus Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Can you explain to me why Christianity is any more valid than any other world religion that has come before or since? It is the only one that believes in salvation by grace, by the doing of God, not by good deeds. And explain why all of this is lining up so perfectly with the book of revelation if it isn't true...you realize in 1948 Israel became a nation again just as it was prophesied in the Book of Ezekiel. And another thing....the bible is the only one that goes into the future such as the book of revelation. Furthermore...since the old testament has been in existence so much longer then the old testament when it says this prophecy? Isaiah 53: 1-10 Quote: 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. Do you realize how far back the book of Isaiah was written? Long before the gospels...do you realize that this is referring to Jesus long before the gospels right? It isn't possible for anyone to be able to trick people with such an elaborate trick such as trying to write something based on an old prophecy that was a lie. What good what that do? Why would anyone have been martyred for someone who they knew was a liar? Why would Jesus's deciples have been willing to die for what he said if they thought it were a lie? I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, I'm not. But I'm just trying to bring up points, the thing is Biblical Christianity isn't a religion, it is a RELATIONSHIP. That is accepting God's son as savior and Lord. I was so confused before I said that prayer, but you got to understand that it is by faith...not because of what we see...when I said that prayer God entered me...That is about as good as it can be explained in the logical mind.... Don't think that I'm attacking you either. I just needed to ask that question. Don't mistake me for someone that doesn't have faith because I believe in a great many things that most people don't, but I don't really see why Christianity is any better than any other religion that's out there. How do I know that Isaiah was written before the birth of Christ? How do I know that prophecy in the Revelation of John is coming true? The language is so vague that it could almost apply to anything, similar to the quatrains of Nostradamus. For the record, I could probably be considered a pantheist and I tend to see the worth in all paths. I see, and I understand what your trying to come to, However have you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? These date back to 100B.C. That is over 500 years before Jesus was said to walk the earth. And there are several other valid reasons to believe it; look up more about this. It is well known that most of Isaiah refers to that. I understand you weren't attacking me, I didn't mean to come off as rude. :swear: I didn't think you were being rude. Don't worry about it. Discussing religion is usually a minefield though, so I wanted to make sure you knew that I wasn't trying to offend you and that you hadn't offended me. I understand that some Christian/Judaic writings go back thousands of years, but what about religions like Hinduism that go back something like four to six thousand years? Is age the indicator for what is the most valid?Yeah I hear you, but no, the age isn't as important as what had occurred. You see Jesus is said to be from about 2000 or so years ago (a few more now) But if you to look to what that Isaiah text is referring to, it is saying referring to what Jesus will do, before it happened...not just in date, but in the date it was written. And I understand that you're trying to refer to Nostradamus as a means of saying it could be a similar case to refer to many things but there is a difference that is clear. First of all there are parts of truth in many religions...but several wrongs in it as well, nonetheless the most valid separation between Biblical Christianity and other cultures, I'm not speaking of all Christianity as biblical, there are denominations of Christianity that don't accept the true practices, and these are generally referred to as in the doctrines of demons. What makes Isaiah so valid is that it refers to who the Messiah will be for Israel and the world before he even appears, 500 years before he appeared in fact. But John's sayings in Revelation differ in the way it is written then the way Nostradamus speaks, (granted that I haven't seen everything he wrote) but I've seen specials that may refer to history, and the way Nostradamus did things could be considered occultic correct? Quote: Well there was a demon that allowed a lady to tell the future in the bible before Paul cast it out in the name of Jesus. To some extent, that could mean that some demons understand parts of the future...anyways these are said in the bible to be things to lead those astray away from God, in fact God openly condemns such practices in the bible Isaiah 47: 10-14 In fact all through the bible, (Deuteronomy 18:10-12; 2 Kings 21:6; Micah 5:12; Isaiah 47:12; Ezekiel 13:18, 20; Acts 8:11-24; Leviticus 20:27; Exodus 7:11; Revelation 9:21; 22:15) speak clearly about these subjects. The thing is, the law of sin and death was because Adam and Eve sinned, many people died because of the law in the old days, the thing is because Jesus died for us we are redeemed from the law; the unclean foods spoken of in the bible's old testament are now allowed, but you see that doesn't change the fact that sin is deadly, fatal, poisonous after awhile, examples in this case would be Possession, addiction, harlotry, fornication, and adultery, bondage, these are sins and effects that they cause. John was told by God, obviously the way he saw things was different as well; for example John the revelator said that God showed him these things, Isaiah also mentioned seeing God with flaming eyes, and armor, and white hair correct? Did Nostradamus see what God showed him or what a devil showed him? Come on now, if he was dabbling in astrology and such things which are clearly condemned in the bible, then the way it is done is a shear indicator of difference, if this were true, then why would one trust Satan's words over God's when he explained why Satan fell from Heaven. (He's a fallen angel because he stopped worshiping God, fell in love with himself, and wanted worship, when that is clearly God's right.)
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:31 am
So how do the prophets and apostles and all that know they were communicating with God? How could they tell the difference between God and a demon trying to trick them if demons can mimic angels, etc.?
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:43 am
Silent Harry Mason Captain_Shinzo I'm seeing a common fallacy here.
It is true science can't solve everything.
( Or atleast, it hasn't solved everything to this moment. )
However, why should an incomplete clause be proof for another incomplete clause?
Just because science hasn't proved where we came from doesn't mean that religion is the ULTIMATE answer.
It just means we don't know where we came from.
Sure, I don't know where or what caused everything to be,
but I'm sure as hell not going to believe an entity from out of nowhere made everything or some other kinda of out-there belief on our creation.
So before I'm asked if I've ever asked if I've seen ourselves made, evolved, etc etc...
I would like the answer as to why I would need to physically SEE something if the physical remains were already left behind.
That's like saying fingerprints from a crime scene are invalid because we don't know where they cam from, they were just there. Again Christianity wasn't intended to be a religion (Salvation/prosperity by doing good things) It is the belief that by the Lord Jesus Christ's death and resurrection that we are made whole, and redeemed. In fact are you aware that it takes more faith to believe we weren't created by God to believe that we were? God has given evidence of his existence and of the bible's truthfulness. How is it coincidence that Sodom and Gomorrah have the amount of brimstone in it as stated? In fact in modern day society those places are nothing but ruins, another thing is that the remains of Jericho actually has a red ribbon on the remaining wall, there are scientists who have used a device (I don't know what it's called but it basically sort of checks the date of days or something like that and it shows how things look during that day. EX: the lighting, I don't mean something weird like actually time traveling or dimensional traveling.) It came out as I said above in my previous post that they found an eclipse, the eclipse lasted for 12 hours according to the bible. Furthermore explain around us why everything is coming true like the bible said? Lets face it, this one world government is setting up the stage for the Anti Christ to take control of it; another thing from a different angle now. There is a Catholic Prophecy sort of that was predicted by St. Malachy (It doesn't matter what denomination God decides to use) he said in a vision that he saw all the popes, and that the last one would be like Judas. The last one is pope #112, Yeah that may sound sketchy but look at this; the thing is St. Malachy predicted the last one's name to be Peter Romano, and recently (though my memory is slightly sketchy, but I do remember what articles and stuff I have seen) the church headlines or something said this if as close to a quote as possible, "John Paul the Venerable - we honor you! Benedict the Good Shepherd - we love you! (and the directly underneath!) Peter the Roman - we await you!" and if you dig into any of this information using google you can find more on it. But there is more to it then him simply betraying his faith, he is said to be possibly the false prophet as it was predicted that he would be the pope during Armageddon, the Tribulation Period, and the the one who associates with the Anti Christ. If your denying all of this, that is your decision but the thing is that science holds no more information then the stuff being said here. Not to mention the natural disasters and warfare is also associated with the last signs on the scale that it is on.
It all comes down to the reasons you have for believing or not believing.
For example, personal experiences.
I have NO right to deny someone's personal experience as truth or fallacy. Sure, I wont let it change my perspectives on my beliefs. That doesn't mean I can flat out say "Your vision was not true." or "You were hallucinating."
I can't see people's personal moments, so I rather not touch on those topics when I'm around others.
But when it comes to disbelieving, we come down to common grounds and reasons that can't be understood by the words of holy texts.
Like when I was Christian, I always wondered where the Bible came from, how we know God created it by his words, and how God came to be if no on created him.
( Which is the point of Christianity, considering it foretells how we were made. )
But that is besides the point.
Christianity isn't a religion? I'm not sure I quite follow. It's a belief. People follow it. It's based on entities and magical prophecies and stories. I don't understand what part ISN'T a religion.
Science actually explains many things were observe. Right now, it can't answer where we came from. I'll admit that. However, the general idea of it has caused us to advance so much, it has made us live longer than we used to. People can live to be more than one hundred years now. It's maddening. As for war being caused by science, which I don't understand why that is brought up, Science has as much do as a role as Christianity and other religions.
Sure, religions can cause war just like everything else.
( Even though I'm not one to be a Misotheist by saying all wars are created by religion. )
But I will say every war has a beginning by some end.
The Civil War was caused by economic ideas and even inventions.
Like, for example, did you know the cotton gin was actually a big movement into the civil war? It wasn't the main base, but it played a factor as it caused a more usage for slaves.
I don't see anything. Our nation is going through a s**t storm. I see that. However, that doesn't make it the worst. The world is going into Armageddon as much as my books are getting published world-wide.
( They aren't even published might I add. )
Now, I don't wish to sound like the devil's advocate, but all the prophecies and everything else you stated can easily be played off. Prophecies written down in the future to make it seem like the past was an event that was GOING to happen. It isn't that hard.
I'm actually interested in that one event in the eclipse, however.
It makes me think. Back then, Illuminati scientists and the church were kind of relating back then while those same scientists were being funded money. Back then, the scientists were studying astrology. Basic astrology, but astrology. It wouldn't be hard to predict an eclipse with astrology and play it off like a prophecy, correct?
Then again, those are just my two cents.
All in all, I'm really interested in what you have to say here. You are making more sense then the lot of the Christian spreaders here on gaia and atleast you aren't going all out and attacking a group of believers. I will applaud you on that. Get back to me on this when you can.( P.S. Please don't take this as a note of attack. I have most Christian and other religious believers here on Gaia that know me as a person who disrespects religion. Frankly, I only attack the religious propaganda that shows up in the forums attacking a specific belief and place my input. I can just sometimes come off as harsh. Not harsh like "******** you" harsh, but more as a disrespecting harsh like I don't think about others. Then again, it's a mere misunderstanding of someone's perspective but that's another tale. )
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:31 am
Captain_Shinzo Silent Harry Mason Captain_Shinzo I'm seeing a common fallacy here.
It is true science can't solve everything.
( Or atleast, it hasn't solved everything to this moment. )
However, why should an incomplete clause be proof for another incomplete clause?
Just because science hasn't proved where we came from doesn't mean that religion is the ULTIMATE answer.
It just means we don't know where we came from.
Sure, I don't know where or what caused everything to be,
but I'm sure as hell not going to believe an entity from out of nowhere made everything or some other kinda of out-there belief on our creation.
So before I'm asked if I've ever asked if I've seen ourselves made, evolved, etc etc...
I would like the answer as to why I would need to physically SEE something if the physical remains were already left behind.
That's like saying fingerprints from a crime scene are invalid because we don't know where they cam from, they were just there. Again Christianity wasn't intended to be a religion (Salvation/prosperity by doing good things) It is the belief that by the Lord Jesus Christ's death and resurrection that we are made whole, and redeemed. In fact are you aware that it takes more faith to believe we weren't created by God to believe that we were? God has given evidence of his existence and of the bible's truthfulness. How is it coincidence that Sodom and Gomorrah have the amount of brimstone in it as stated? In fact in modern day society those places are nothing but ruins, another thing is that the remains of Jericho actually has a red ribbon on the remaining wall, there are scientists who have used a device (I don't know what it's called but it basically sort of checks the date of days or something like that and it shows how things look during that day. EX: the lighting, I don't mean something weird like actually time traveling or dimensional traveling.) It came out as I said above in my previous post that they found an eclipse, the eclipse lasted for 12 hours according to the bible. Furthermore explain around us why everything is coming true like the bible said? Lets face it, this one world government is setting up the stage for the Anti Christ to take control of it; another thing from a different angle now. There is a Catholic Prophecy sort of that was predicted by St. Malachy (It doesn't matter what denomination God decides to use) he said in a vision that he saw all the popes, and that the last one would be like Judas. The last one is pope #112, Yeah that may sound sketchy but look at this; the thing is St. Malachy predicted the last one's name to be Peter Romano, and recently (though my memory is slightly sketchy, but I do remember what articles and stuff I have seen) the church headlines or something said this if as close to a quote as possible, "John Paul the Venerable - we honor you! Benedict the Good Shepherd - we love you! (and the directly underneath!) Peter the Roman - we await you!" and if you dig into any of this information using google you can find more on it. But there is more to it then him simply betraying his faith, he is said to be possibly the false prophet as it was predicted that he would be the pope during Armageddon, the Tribulation Period, and the the one who associates with the Anti Christ. If your denying all of this, that is your decision but the thing is that science holds no more information then the stuff being said here. Not to mention the natural disasters and warfare is also associated with the last signs on the scale that it is on.
It all comes down to the reasons you have for believing or not believing.
For example, personal experiences.
I have NO right to deny someone's personal experience as truth or fallacy. Sure, I wont let it change my perspectives on my beliefs. That doesn't mean I can flat out say "Your vision was not true." or "You were hallucinating."
I can't see people's personal moments, so I rather not touch on those topics when I'm around others.
But when it comes to disbelieving, we come down to common grounds and reasons that can't be understood by the words of holy texts.
Like when I was Christian, I always wondered where the Bible came from, how we know God created it by his words, and how God came to be if no on created him.
( Which is the point of Christianity, considering it foretells how we were made. )
But that is besides the point.
Christianity isn't a religion? I'm not sure I quite follow. It's a belief. People follow it. It's based on entities and magical prophecies and stories. I don't understand what part ISN'T a religion.
Science actually explains many things were observe. Right now, it can't answer where we came from. I'll admit that. However, the general idea of it has caused us to advance so much, it has made us live longer than we used to. People can live to be more than one hundred years now. It's maddening. As for war being caused by science, which I don't understand why that is brought up, Science has as much do as a role as Christianity and other religions.
Sure, religions can cause war just like everything else.
( Even though I'm not one to be a Misotheist by saying all wars are created by religion. )
But I will say every war has a beginning by some end.
The Civil War was caused by economic ideas and even inventions.
Like, for example, did you know the cotton gin was actually a big movement into the civil war? It wasn't the main base, but it played a factor as it caused a more usage for slaves.
I don't see anything. Our nation is going through a s**t storm. I see that. However, that doesn't make it the worst. The world is going into Armageddon as much as my books are getting published world-wide.
( They aren't even published might I add. )
Now, I don't wish to sound like the devil's advocate, but all the prophecies and everything else you stated can easily be played off. Prophecies written down in the future to make it seem like the past was an event that was GOING to happen. It isn't that hard.
I'm actually interested in that one event in the eclipse, however.
It makes me think. Back then, Illuminati scientists and the church were kind of relating back then while those same scientists were being funded money. Back then, the scientists were studying astrology. Basic astrology, but astrology. It wouldn't be hard to predict an eclipse with astrology and play it off like a prophecy, correct?
Then again, those are just my two cents.
All in all, I'm really interested in what you have to say here. You are making more sense then the lot of the Christian spreaders here on gaia and atleast you aren't going all out and attacking a group of believers. I will applaud you on that. Get back to me on this when you can.( P.S. Please don't take this as a note of attack. I have most Christian and other religious believers here on Gaia that know me as a person who disrespects religion. Frankly, I only attack the religious propaganda that shows up in the forums attacking a specific belief and place my input. I can just sometimes come off as harsh. Not harsh like "******** you" harsh, but more as a disrespecting harsh like I don't think about others. Then again, it's a mere misunderstanding of someone's perspective but that's another tale. ) Well you see, the thing is that I'm trying to say you see is that we all deserve hell for our sins, no Christian deserves any different, the grace stated in the bible is what separates biblical Christianity from other branches, as I said not every branch is true. There isn't life in every church, that is to say they aren't all speaking the truth. Christianity is often misinterpreted as a religion because there are those who say you have to work to get to God, when in reality we can't move any closer to God because of how good he is, on our own we have no chance due to anything bad we have done, Jesus is the only way. Meaning that only Jesus himself can get anything accomplished in us, eternal life can't be obtained on our own, a lot of denominations state that you have to get rid of this, or do this more, or sit down and do this and while I'm not saying it is bad to be kind to others or to improve, but even that isn't good enough. The standard for being worthy of Heaven is absolute perfection, that is impossible for us to accomplish, and we would all be doomed to hellfire if it weren't for Jesus. As for proof, physical evidence, i have mentioned things before, but you can't technically be an atheist, let me explain to you what that means, you're basically saying in a sense that there is no God absolutely, however you still haven't seen everything, and people probably know in a total percentage about 1% of the information throughout all of time, and everything else, the proper term would be Agnostic which says that I don't know if there is a God, because atheist means that you know with absolute certainty. For example say someone says there is no gold in China, you then have to check 100% of the land to see if that is true, again that is still impossible. If there is even 1% then it means that the person's statement was false you see. If we even committed one sin no matter how small we deserve hell, what caused me to repent was realizing that I would have to stand before God. Heck maybe a few years ago you could have called me Agnostic, but still what changes all that is what he did for me, God can be felt if you want him, however if one doesn't want to believe he can't help them now can he? A lot of people don't want to believe there is a God because of what he said about the coming Judgment. It is hard to believe there is a God in a world that is polluted with murder, death, natural disasters, and other things but those are also a result of sin. No, if God gave us what we really deserved, every last one of us would be swept into hell by a big disaster. To some extent you are right about evolution as there are small changes, but unless you literally saw a dinosaur, or a Monkey change all 360o how can you be entirely sure? Now about that eclipse, do you understand what event I'm talking about right? I'm referring to the darkness that extended for 12 hours after Jesus died. Many other countries saw this darkness and have even written about it, it spread all across the Roman Empire if I'm not mistaken. But one more thing, have you ever heard of the near death experiences people have been having? If I'm not mistaken Ronald Reagen saw hell, here is a story. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU7q4HSnm24 This is often argued to be a chemical that causes these experiences, but how does any chemical cause something like this huh? How do you explain a women having a near death experience during surgery where she was hooked up, and furthermore she saw a shoe on the roof of the hospital during this time, and having them find it afterwords?
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:00 am
Actually that was only part 1, watch all of these:
http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/u/17/LY4eduFR0mI
http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/u/16/JlA0XDgFpwg
http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/u/15/O-3bDwaI9w0
http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/u/20/YU7q4HSnm24
http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/u/19/p_uIQP3nD58
http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/u/14/w-v1Fppjlvc
http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/1/OnVhKH2C1Jw
http://www.youtube.com/user/XtremeRealityCheck#p/search/0/5HbtoX3Q5OI
This should be about all of them.
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:25 am
Silent Harry Mason I don't think that anyone has seen a whale or Monkey or Human morph 100% from one creature to another Oh wow ignorance. Well tell me if I haven't seen a god then why should I believe in him?
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:56 am
Official Sasuke Uchiha Silent Harry Mason I don't think that anyone has seen a whale or Monkey or Human morph 100% from one creature to another Oh wow ignorance. Well tell me if I haven't seen a god then why should I believe in him? You're right, you haven't, but then again you can't see him so you can't prove he doesn't exist. God isn't someone who is just going to appear because you want to see him, he is only pleased by faith. So what you're saying is that he can't exist because you haven't seen him right? Well then I'm giving you reasons all throughout this thread why he exists, in fact this guild's front page helps in proving that because of the similar list of events listed throughout the bible are in front of you. Evolution can be no more proven then God can, you can look at animals that look similar just as you can look at changes in our world, just as you can point to the amount of people who have had near death experiences. Tell me, have you lived several thousands of years ago? No you have not. Have I, no I have not. But then again just by a list of data you believe that evolution is real, when they haven't established any links, they have only made guesses, so I assume that you know more then everyone or that science has no possible flaws in its calculations? As for why I believe? That is because he saved me, I feel him, several millions of people who have truly accepted him feel him. If you were to surrender your life to him, and actually wanted to, he could help you as he helped me. Whether you believe it or not, fact is fact, because you choose not to believe it won't change it, however while I seek to challenge your reasoning, I intend to do it respectfully, and I hope that you would do the same, I didn't mean anything disrespectful to you in this, so I would hope that this discussion remains positive, without vulgar language being used, and without any rudeness being involved in it. Thank you.
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:32 am
Obscurus So how do the prophets and apostles and all that know they were communicating with God? How could they tell the difference between God and a demon trying to trick them if demons can mimic angels, etc.? First of all the prophets and apostles wouldn't even be those for real had it been that God spoke to them, there are blessings that have followed these people so how would they have that if they were talking to Satan? You have a good point there though. The prophets would have been striked down under the law if they were doing the will of Satan(back in the old testament days, not to say any of them were perfect. The apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit( a trait to those who are saved) and they probably often read the teachings prior to what was going on around them, God helped them to understand what they were taught in their everyday practices.That is another way things can get mixed up because people believe it sometimes that they are seeing the will of God and are doing his will, such as the story behind the person who started Jehovah's witnesses, the thing behind it rips and changes the meaning of the bible basically completely. Definitely by what God had written down before them, the bible says to put on the whole armor of God so that you can stand in the evil day, they would probably stay close to God, if they were hearing or seeing something that was in opposition to what was written down, they would know to stay away from it because it doesn't line up with what they already know God said. God doesn't allow Satan to deceive his people if they stay close to him.
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:09 am
Silent Harry Mason Official Sasuke Uchiha Silent Harry Mason I don't think that anyone has seen a whale or Monkey or Human morph 100% from one creature to another Oh wow ignorance. Well tell me if I haven't seen a god then why should I believe in him? You're right, you haven't, but then again you can't see him so you can't prove he doesn't exist. God isn't someone who is just going to appear because you want to see him, he is only pleased by faith. So what you're saying is that he can't exist because you haven't seen him right? Well then I'm giving you reasons all throughout this thread why he exists, in fact this guild's front page helps in proving that because of the similar list of events listed throughout the bible are in front of you. Evolution can be no more proven then God can, you can look at animals that look similar just as you can look at changes in our world, just as you can point to the amount of people who have had near death experiences. Tell me, have you lived several thousands of years ago? No you have not. Have I, no I have not. But then again just by a list of data you believe that evolution is real, when they haven't established any links, they have only made guesses, so I assume that you know more then everyone or that science has no possible flaws in its calculations? As for why I believe? That is because he saved me, I feel him, several millions of people who have truly accepted him feel him. If you were to surrender your life to him, and actually wanted to, he could help you as he helped me. Whether you believe it or not, fact is fact, because you choose not to believe it won't change it, however while I seek to challenge your reasoning, I intend to do it respectfully, and I hope that you would do the same, I didn't mean anything disrespectful to you in this, so I would hope that this discussion remains positive, without vulgar language being used, and without any rudeness being involved in it. Thank you.
Both have the argument that you haven't SEEN the object.
However, just as you stated in there being evidence, so is there evidence in evolution.
( Although the evidence in evolution seems to be a bit more believable and less he-said-she-said related. )
Now I wont agree with Sasuke's approach nor will I agree with your personal relationship with your beliefs. I'll state this.
But, Sasuke has a point. Evolution has much more than just "guesses". The fossil links, pre-historical fossils, and everything else leading to evolution looking to be actual fact.
I'm exaggerating a bit but my point is still valid.
People's personal experiences and claims are shaky and can't really be taken too far into consideration. Physical evidence not of someone's word? That's something that can't be denied.
However, it all takes beliefs.
Your beliefs are plausible to you because you wish it to, right? It comforts you and you like it. Some people don't care for comfort if they already have it. Infact, some find comfort just within truth That in itself is what drives people to believe.
I'm only bringing this in because evolution was brought into topic somehow, and I as well as others like the idea that evolution should not destroy the ideas of religion as it can fit into religious beliefs.
Although, personally, I find the topic growing out of bounds for me. As I've stated before, I'm not one to debate on personal beliefs and personal experiences. Although, this part did string my interest.
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:47 am
Captain_Shinzo Silent Harry Mason Official Sasuke Uchiha Silent Harry Mason I don't think that anyone has seen a whale or Monkey or Human morph 100% from one creature to another Oh wow ignorance. Well tell me if I haven't seen a god then why should I believe in him? You're right, you haven't, but then again you can't see him so you can't prove he doesn't exist. God isn't someone who is just going to appear because you want to see him, he is only pleased by faith. So what you're saying is that he can't exist because you haven't seen him right? Well then I'm giving you reasons all throughout this thread why he exists, in fact this guild's front page helps in proving that because of the similar list of events listed throughout the bible are in front of you. Evolution can be no more proven then God can, you can look at animals that look similar just as you can look at changes in our world, just as you can point to the amount of people who have had near death experiences. Tell me, have you lived several thousands of years ago? No you have not. Have I, no I have not. But then again just by a list of data you believe that evolution is real, when they haven't established any links, they have only made guesses, so I assume that you know more then everyone or that science has no possible flaws in its calculations? As for why I believe? That is because he saved me, I feel him, several millions of people who have truly accepted him feel him. If you were to surrender your life to him, and actually wanted to, he could help you as he helped me. Whether you believe it or not, fact is fact, because you choose not to believe it won't change it, however while I seek to challenge your reasoning, I intend to do it respectfully, and I hope that you would do the same, I didn't mean anything disrespectful to you in this, so I would hope that this discussion remains positive, without vulgar language being used, and without any rudeness being involved in it. Thank you.
Both have the argument that you haven't SEEN the object.
However, just as you stated in there being evidence, so is there evidence in evolution.
( Although the evidence in evolution seems to be a bit more believable and less he-said-she-said related. )
Now I wont agree with Sasuke's approach nor will I agree with your personal relationship with your beliefs. I'll state this.
But, Sasuke has a point. Evolution has much more than just "guesses". The fossil links, pre-historical fossils, and everything else leading to evolution looking to be actual fact.
I'm exaggerating a bit but my point is still valid.
People's personal experiences and claims are shaky and can't really be taken too far into consideration. Physical evidence not of someone's word? That's something that can't be denied.
However, it all takes beliefs.
Your beliefs are plausible to you because you wish it to, right? It comforts you and you like it. Some people don't care for comfort if they already have it. Infact, some find comfort just within truth That in itself is what drives people to believe.
I'm only bringing this in because evolution was brought into topic somehow, and I as well as others like the idea that evolution should not destroy the ideas of religion as it can fit into religious beliefs.
Although, personally, I find the topic growing out of bounds for me. As I've stated before, I'm not one to debate on personal beliefs and personal experiences. Although, this part did string my interest.Well yeah there are things around us that are true, and also false. What I'm trying to say here is if you want to even find God he has to guide you, your right about not simply trusting words either. Now you're right you can see fossil links in creatures, some of them are a similar race after all right? And I agree, I don't see why science and religion can't co-exist with each other, it doesn't help to separate them because it only brings division, to be honest no one believes every of the same things after all, and you're right that science can show many things based on where things have been. I didn't mean to sound rude if I did. sweatdrop Anyways you are also wrong about one thing, I'm not simply comforted by reading, or by doing anything, there are even people around us in the churches who are deceived about what it means to truly have God. Some people see heaven as clouds and harps, that would suck wouldn't it to sit on a cloud all day. That is a false concept as well, now I don't want to denounce everyone's beliefs, or culture, but we all just aren't going to come to an agreement because someone says something, or someone says another. I mean, not everyone thinks that they need to know God, even though I've come to the conclusion that is incorrect, people like the stuff that they can do and do on a day to day basis because it is appealing to them sometimes, and the concept of having to follow a set of guidelines and having to control themselves on what they do, and having to be ruled over is not fun to them. I agree to some extent, being limited, isn't fun (Note: in noway am I applying my beliefs to socialism or dictatorship rule) However either way according to God we are going to confess him. How can I prove that my faith is correct? I cannot. It is by an act of faith, I've been saying the same thing, you can look at evidence, but not everyone will believe it. And let me clarify what I mean by an act of faith, all I am saying in that, is if you were to try to open yourself (not saying that to you only, but in general) up to him, and give him a chance, he would reveal himself in time. May I ask you a question instead of just going on with reasoning?(This is not rhetorical) Why do you think people consider that the bible contradicts itself?
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:03 am
Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Can you explain to me why Christianity is any more valid than any other world religion that has come before or since? It is the only one that believes in salvation by grace, by the doing of God, not by good deeds. And explain why all of this is lining up so perfectly with the book of revelation if it isn't true...you realize in 1948 Israel became a nation again just as it was prophesied in the Book of Ezekiel. And another thing....the bible is the only one that goes into the future such as the book of revelation. Furthermore...since the old testament has been in existence so much longer then the old testament when it says this prophecy? Isaiah 53: 1-10 Quote: 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. Do you realize how far back the book of Isaiah was written? Long before the gospels...do you realize that this is referring to Jesus long before the gospels right? It isn't possible for anyone to be able to trick people with such an elaborate trick such as trying to write something based on an old prophecy that was a lie. What good what that do? Why would anyone have been martyred for someone who they knew was a liar? Why would Jesus's deciples have been willing to die for what he said if they thought it were a lie? I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, I'm not. But I'm just trying to bring up points, the thing is Biblical Christianity isn't a religion, it is a RELATIONSHIP. That is accepting God's son as savior and Lord. I was so confused before I said that prayer, but you got to understand that it is by faith...not because of what we see...when I said that prayer God entered me...That is about as good as it can be explained in the logical mind.... Don't think that I'm attacking you either. I just needed to ask that question. Don't mistake me for someone that doesn't have faith because I believe in a great many things that most people don't, but I don't really see why Christianity is any better than any other religion that's out there. How do I know that Isaiah was written before the birth of Christ? How do I know that prophecy in the Revelation of John is coming true? The language is so vague that it could almost apply to anything, similar to the quatrains of Nostradamus. For the record, I could probably be considered a pantheist and I tend to see the worth in all paths.I see, and I understand what your trying to come to, However have you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? These date back to 100B.C. That is over 500 years before Jesus was said to walk the earth. And there are several other valid reasons to believe it; look up more about this. It is well known that most of Isaiah refers to that. I understand you weren't attacking me, I didn't mean to come off as rude. :swear: Are you a moron? The Dead Sea Scrolls were in the 900AD era. Long after Jesus and Constantine.
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:16 am
God Emperor Akhenaton Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Can you explain to me why Christianity is any more valid than any other world religion that has come before or since? It is the only one that believes in salvation by grace, by the doing of God, not by good deeds. And explain why all of this is lining up so perfectly with the book of revelation if it isn't true...you realize in 1948 Israel became a nation again just as it was prophesied in the Book of Ezekiel. And another thing....the bible is the only one that goes into the future such as the book of revelation. Furthermore...since the old testament has been in existence so much longer then the old testament when it says this prophecy? Isaiah 53: 1-10 Quote: 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. Do you realize how far back the book of Isaiah was written? Long before the gospels...do you realize that this is referring to Jesus long before the gospels right? It isn't possible for anyone to be able to trick people with such an elaborate trick such as trying to write something based on an old prophecy that was a lie. What good what that do? Why would anyone have been martyred for someone who they knew was a liar? Why would Jesus's deciples have been willing to die for what he said if they thought it were a lie? I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, I'm not. But I'm just trying to bring up points, the thing is Biblical Christianity isn't a religion, it is a RELATIONSHIP. That is accepting God's son as savior and Lord. I was so confused before I said that prayer, but you got to understand that it is by faith...not because of what we see...when I said that prayer God entered me...That is about as good as it can be explained in the logical mind.... Don't think that I'm attacking you either. I just needed to ask that question. Don't mistake me for someone that doesn't have faith because I believe in a great many things that most people don't, but I don't really see why Christianity is any better than any other religion that's out there. How do I know that Isaiah was written before the birth of Christ? How do I know that prophecy in the Revelation of John is coming true? The language is so vague that it could almost apply to anything, similar to the quatrains of Nostradamus. For the record, I could probably be considered a pantheist and I tend to see the worth in all paths. I see, and I understand what your trying to come to, However have you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? These date back to 100B.C. That is over 500 years before Jesus was said to walk the earth. And there are several other valid reasons to believe it; look up more about this. It is well known that most of Isaiah refers to that. I understand you weren't attacking me, I didn't mean to come off as rude. :swear: Are you a moron? The Dead Sea Scrolls were in the 900AD era. Long after Jesus and Constantine.Why? Because you said so? Look them up more...-_- In fact the at least reach back to 200 B.C. while some speculate it reaches at least 65 A.D. at most, Some of them date back to 400 B.C. Where did you get that number huh?
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:41 am
Silent Harry Mason God Emperor Akhenaton Silent Harry Mason Obscurus Silent Harry Mason
It is the only one that believes in salvation by grace, by the doing of God, not by good deeds. And explain why all of this is lining up so perfectly with the book of revelation if it isn't true...you realize in 1948 Israel became a nation again just as it was prophesied in the Book of Ezekiel.
And another thing....the bible is the only one that goes into the future such as the book of revelation.
Furthermore...since the old testament has been in existence so much longer then the old testament when it says this prophecy?
Isaiah 53: 1-10
Do you realize how far back the book of Isaiah was written? Long before the gospels...do you realize that this is referring to Jesus long before the gospels right?
It isn't possible for anyone to be able to trick people with such an elaborate trick such as trying to write something based on an old prophecy that was a lie. What good what that do? Why would anyone have been martyred for someone who they knew was a liar? Why would Jesus's deciples have been willing to die for what he said if they thought it were a lie? I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, I'm not. But I'm just trying to bring up points, the thing is Biblical Christianity isn't a religion, it is a RELATIONSHIP. That is accepting God's son as savior and Lord. I was so confused before I said that prayer, but you got to understand that it is by faith...not because of what we see...when I said that prayer God entered me...That is about as good as it can be explained in the logical mind....
Don't think that I'm attacking you either. I just needed to ask that question. Don't mistake me for someone that doesn't have faith because I believe in a great many things that most people don't, but I don't really see why Christianity is any better than any other religion that's out there. How do I know that Isaiah was written before the birth of Christ? How do I know that prophecy in the Revelation of John is coming true? The language is so vague that it could almost apply to anything, similar to the quatrains of Nostradamus. For the record, I could probably be considered a pantheist and I tend to see the worth in all paths. I see, and I understand what your trying to come to, However have you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? These date back to 100B.C. That is over 500 years before Jesus was said to walk the earth. And there are several other valid reasons to believe it; look up more about this. It is well known that most of Isaiah refers to that. I understand you weren't attacking me, I didn't mean to come off as rude. :swear: Are you a moron? The Dead Sea Scrolls were in the 900AD era. Long after Jesus and Constantine. Why? Because you said so? Look them up more...-_- In fact the at least reach back to 200 B.C. while some speculate it reaches at least 65 A.D. at most, Some of them date back to 400 B.C. Where did you get that number huh? Point conceded, but how does that prove Christianity right when they got genesis wrong?
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