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 Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:47 am
the U.S. was created neither secular nor religious. the 1st Amendment Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. the first Ten Amendments can be found here. and no. we are NOT a Democracy, and never realy were. it's not President Obama's fault that we don't have teh Cange he Promised; I have full Faith he'd have done it all if he could. it's the Congress. however, I don't like all of Obama's Policies anyway.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:57 am
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:07 am
because it's not specifically un-religious either. it makes NO DISTINCTION whatsoever between Church and State.
of course, that's only rhetoic, but the reality is that it's difficult to sepperate Church and State. laws must be based on Ethics, and Ethics must be based on some Code. whether you get that from one religion or another, or from no religion at all, doesn't stop the fact that folks of different religions (and interpretations of those religions) will have conflict over even the tiniest little differences in minor Ethical detail.
but our 1st Amendment is meant to prevent State Bias in any direction, religious and/or secular.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:28 pm
Chieftain Twilight the U.S. was created neither secular nor religious. the 1st Amendment Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. the first Ten Amendments can be found here. and no. we are NOT a Democracy, and never realy were. it's not President Obama's fault that we don't have teh Cange he Promised; I have full Faith he'd have done it all if he could. it's the Congress. however, I don't like all of Obama's Policies anyway.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:32 pm
Chieftain Twilight of course, that's only rhetoic, but the reality is that it's difficult to sepperate Church and State. laws must be based on Ethics, and Ethics must be based on some Code. whether you get that from one religion or another, or from no religion at all, doesn't stop the fact that folks of different religions (and interpretations of those religions) will have conflict over even the tiniest little differences in minor Ethical detail.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:01 pm
Chieftain Twilight it's the principle of it. I have no problem with folks pledging allegiance, but it shouldn't be mandatory anywhere. also, it's not even just to the the Nation, it's specfically to the flag and the republic. what if I don't like the republic? what if I think that we can better uphold the Declaration of Independence in a different government system? I'm an Anarchist, I don't like the congress as we know it. the U.S.A. is just like the Ancient Roman Empire. lemme tell you something; many folks think the Holy Roman Empire was corrupt. it wasn't nearly as corrupt as teh Ancient Roman Empire, and in fact the Catholic Church did as many things for the common good and for the rights of men as they did terrible acts of political maneuvering. just like in america, the ancient roman people didn't care about their politics. citizens voted, but they voted for whoever bribed them the most. sound familiar? the Emperor had no real executive power, the Senate held all the cards. sound familiar? the Senate was just a bunch of rich cats who didn't care about it's people. they just took over land, leased it out to feudal lords, and controlled all the trade, so they could take from the poor and keep their excess luxury. sound familiar? meanwhile, they distracted the people with mindless entertainment (Whores, Blood Sports, Pornography, Comedy, Theatre, etcetera). sound familiar? republics are a problem. always have been. Interesting thought but my husband believes that the original founders of the United States intended for us to have a revolution once again if the government went corrupt, hence the right to bear arms.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:03 pm
Aakosir Chieftain Twilight of course, that's only rhetoic, but the reality is that it's difficult to sepperate Church and State. laws must be based on Ethics, and Ethics must be based on some Code. whether you get that from one religion or another, or from no religion at all, doesn't stop the fact that folks of different religions (and interpretations of those religions) will have conflict over even the tiniest little differences in minor Ethical detail. For most atheists I do believe it would be pretty accurate to say that morals are derived from those behaviors which enhance social stability or personal trust, with behaviors that cause a decay of that structure being avoided.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:05 pm
Lateralus es Helica Chieftain Twilight it's the principle of it. I have no problem with folks pledging allegiance, but it shouldn't be mandatory anywhere. also, it's not even just to the the Nation, it's specfically to the flag and the republic. what if I don't like the republic? what if I think that we can better uphold the Declaration of Independence in a different government system? I'm an Anarchist, I don't like the congress as we know it. the U.S.A. is just like the Ancient Roman Empire. lemme tell you something; many folks think the Holy Roman Empire was corrupt. it wasn't nearly as corrupt as teh Ancient Roman Empire, and in fact the Catholic Church did as many things for the common good and for the rights of men as they did terrible acts of political maneuvering. just like in america, the ancient roman people didn't care about their politics. citizens voted, but they voted for whoever bribed them the most. sound familiar? the Emperor had no real executive power, the Senate held all the cards. sound familiar? the Senate was just a bunch of rich cats who didn't care about it's people. they just took over land, leased it out to feudal lords, and controlled all the trade, so they could take from the poor and keep their excess luxury. sound familiar? meanwhile, they distracted the people with mindless entertainment (Whores, Blood Sports, Pornography, Comedy, Theatre, etcetera). sound familiar? republics are a problem. always have been. Interesting thought but my husband believes that the original founders of the United States intended for us to have a revolution once again if the government went corrupt, hence the right to bear arms. I think it may happen if the American people are pushed too far.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:39 pm
Shadows-shine Lateralus es Helica Chieftain Twilight it's the principle of it. I have no problem with folks pledging allegiance, but it shouldn't be mandatory anywhere. also, it's not even just to the the Nation, it's specfically to the flag and the republic. what if I don't like the republic? what if I think that we can better uphold the Declaration of Independence in a different government system? I'm an Anarchist, I don't like the congress as we know it. the U.S.A. is just like the Ancient Roman Empire. lemme tell you something; many folks think the Holy Roman Empire was corrupt. it wasn't nearly as corrupt as teh Ancient Roman Empire, and in fact the Catholic Church did as many things for the common good and for the rights of men as they did terrible acts of political maneuvering. just like in america, the ancient roman people didn't care about their politics. citizens voted, but they voted for whoever bribed them the most. sound familiar? the Emperor had no real executive power, the Senate held all the cards. sound familiar? the Senate was just a bunch of rich cats who didn't care about it's people. they just took over land, leased it out to feudal lords, and controlled all the trade, so they could take from the poor and keep their excess luxury. sound familiar? meanwhile, they distracted the people with mindless entertainment (Whores, Blood Sports, Pornography, Comedy, Theatre, etcetera). sound familiar? republics are a problem. always have been. Interesting thought but my husband believes that the original founders of the United States intended for us to have a revolution once again if the government went corrupt, hence the right to bear arms. I think it may happen if the American people are pushed too far.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:40 pm
Lateralus es Helica Aakosir Chieftain Twilight of course, that's only rhetoic, but the reality is that it's difficult to sepperate Church and State. laws must be based on Ethics, and Ethics must be based on some Code. whether you get that from one religion or another, or from no religion at all, doesn't stop the fact that folks of different religions (and interpretations of those religions) will have conflict over even the tiniest little differences in minor Ethical detail. For most atheists I do believe it would be pretty accurate to say that morals are derived from those behaviors which enhance social stability or personal trust, with behaviors that cause a decay of that structure being avoided.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:10 pm
Aakosir Shadows-shine Lateralus es Helica Chieftain Twilight it's the principle of it. I have no problem with folks pledging allegiance, but it shouldn't be mandatory anywhere. also, it's not even just to the the Nation, it's specfically to the flag and the republic. what if I don't like the republic? what if I think that we can better uphold the Declaration of Independence in a different government system? I'm an Anarchist, I don't like the congress as we know it. the U.S.A. is just like the Ancient Roman Empire. lemme tell you something; many folks think the Holy Roman Empire was corrupt. it wasn't nearly as corrupt as teh Ancient Roman Empire, and in fact the Catholic Church did as many things for the common good and for the rights of men as they did terrible acts of political maneuvering. just like in america, the ancient roman people didn't care about their politics. citizens voted, but they voted for whoever bribed them the most. sound familiar? the Emperor had no real executive power, the Senate held all the cards. sound familiar? the Senate was just a bunch of rich cats who didn't care about it's people. they just took over land, leased it out to feudal lords, and controlled all the trade, so they could take from the poor and keep their excess luxury. sound familiar? meanwhile, they distracted the people with mindless entertainment (Whores, Blood Sports, Pornography, Comedy, Theatre, etcetera). sound familiar? republics are a problem. always have been. Interesting thought but my husband believes that the original founders of the United States intended for us to have a revolution once again if the government went corrupt, hence the right to bear arms. I think it may happen if the American people are pushed too far. In my opinion the Tea Parties were a start to the movement, but I think if Americans want more change for the better, instead of the change for the worst that we received under Obama, then we need to do some thing else or more.
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:11 pm
Aakosir Lateralus es Helica Aakosir Chieftain Twilight of course, that's only rhetoic, but the reality is that it's difficult to sepperate Church and State. laws must be based on Ethics, and Ethics must be based on some Code. whether you get that from one religion or another, or from no religion at all, doesn't stop the fact that folks of different religions (and interpretations of those religions) will have conflict over even the tiniest little differences in minor Ethical detail. For most atheists I do believe it would be pretty accurate to say that morals are derived from those behaviors which enhance social stability or personal trust, with behaviors that cause a decay of that structure being avoided. Well is it a matter that they "can't" or they "won't" follow the rules?
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Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:29 pm
Shadows-shine Aakosir Lateralus es Helica Aakosir Chieftain Twilight of course, that's only rhetoic, but the reality is that it's difficult to sepperate Church and State. laws must be based on Ethics, and Ethics must be based on some Code. whether you get that from one religion or another, or from no religion at all, doesn't stop the fact that folks of different religions (and interpretations of those religions) will have conflict over even the tiniest little differences in minor Ethical detail. For most atheists I do believe it would be pretty accurate to say that morals are derived from those behaviors which enhance social stability or personal trust, with behaviors that cause a decay of that structure being avoided. Well is it a matter that they "can't" or they "won't" follow the rules? Personal interpretation and value has a lot to do with variances in morals and mythos has a lot more to do with them than anyone takes into consideration. As Robert Pirsig roughly put it to travel outside the mythos is to head into insanity.
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Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:35 pm
Shadows-shine Lateralus es Helica Chieftain Twilight it's the principle of it. I have no problem with folks pledging allegiance, but it shouldn't be mandatory anywhere. also, it's not even just to the the Nation, it's specfically to the flag and the republic. what if I don't like the republic? what if I think that we can better uphold the Declaration of Independence in a different government system? I'm an Anarchist, I don't like the congress as we know it. the U.S.A. is just like the Ancient Roman Empire. lemme tell you something; many folks think the Holy Roman Empire was corrupt. it wasn't nearly as corrupt as teh Ancient Roman Empire, and in fact the Catholic Church did as many things for the common good and for the rights of men as they did terrible acts of political maneuvering. just like in america, the ancient roman people didn't care about their politics. citizens voted, but they voted for whoever bribed them the most. sound familiar? the Emperor had no real executive power, the Senate held all the cards. sound familiar? the Senate was just a bunch of rich cats who didn't care about it's people. they just took over land, leased it out to feudal lords, and controlled all the trade, so they could take from the poor and keep their excess luxury. sound familiar? meanwhile, they distracted the people with mindless entertainment (Whores, Blood Sports, Pornography, Comedy, Theatre, etcetera). sound familiar? republics are a problem. always have been. Interesting thought but my husband believes that the original founders of the United States intended for us to have a revolution once again if the government went corrupt, hence the right to bear arms. I think it may happen if the American people are pushed too far. It would happen if our value system changed. Right now I think there's entirely too many people out there that place value on material comforts, having a stable household and financial situation, etc. It's what fueled our economic system into the behemoth it is in the first place, we're easily encouraged that it is better to live an easier, more comfortable life in which our whims can be taken care of at the drop of a dime. Why look at society as a whole when there's materialistic wealth to pursue and then enjoy? Why should we have to make complicated decisions about what is best when we can just decide on what is easiest?
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Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:45 pm
:sighs.: .... look to the past, people. none of this stuff is new. it's all happened before. non of these "revolutions" are just starting. this has all been going on for hundreds of years, maybe thousands of years. it stretches back far before the U.S. was even founded. don't get so caught up in the current events that you forget History. but don't ignore Current Events either.
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