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 Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:44 am
Digital Malevolence Volvy My Hollow Digital Malevolence Metal has really lost the appeal it used to have for me. THIS. Metal is boring. Nobody is doing anything different, nobody is pushing the envelope. Even staple bands are now just ripping themselves off instead of doing something ..... good. I'd argue that it all depends on how deep you're willing to dig. I don't know....I've dug pretty deep, really. I bet I've had heard 8 out of ten bands you could name, unless they were Thrash, Speed or Heavy Metal bands. 8 out of 10 still leaves 20% unexplored. Besides, any genre that's got enough music in it to even BE a genre has to have a generic bulk, almost by definition. I defy you to name even 1 genre of music that doesn't have too many bands making the same sounds.
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:37 am
My Hollow Digital Malevolence Metal has really lost the appeal it used to have for me. THIS.
...d.
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:48 pm
Volvy Digital Malevolence Volvy My Hollow Digital Malevolence Metal has really lost the appeal it used to have for me. THIS. Metal is boring. Nobody is doing anything different, nobody is pushing the envelope. Even staple bands are now just ripping themselves off instead of doing something ..... good. I'd argue that it all depends on how deep you're willing to dig. I don't know....I've dug pretty deep, really. I bet I've had heard 8 out of ten bands you could name, unless they were Thrash, Speed or Heavy Metal bands. 8 out of 10 still leaves 20% unexplored. Besides, any genre that's got enough music in it to even BE a genre has to have a generic bulk, almost by definition. I defy you to name even 1 genre of music that doesn't have too many bands making the same sounds. Every genre is going to have that problem, to a degree. But with all of metal's subgenres, one would think diversity would be its strong point. In the end it is its downfall. With such diversity, bands dont feel preasured to push the enevlope. They dont feel as though they need to put in the effort to do something new. As long as they sound not so bad, it should be good enough. Why should Digital or Ash or I sit there and dig through mindless band after band after band, trying to find the oen underground band thats not seeling a demo, just because they have a decent sound. In the long run, it's not worth it. Metal is as dead as the subforums in this guild. Unless there is a big rejuvination (which I highly doubt will happen) Metal is not going anywhere. The so called "die hards" will stay within the genre because of the culture, the status, the mystic, the idea of metal but not because it is actually something worth identifying with. I strongly feel as though metal is a DIA at this point. Will I still go to shows? Sure. Will I still support my local scene? You bet. Am I willing to dish out $50 to go to a concert to see some big bands? Not on your life. When metal proves that it is worth the time and effort, then I'll recant. Until that day, I will get along just fine with Aggrotech, goth/country, Americana, and American Folk.
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:30 am
My Hollow Volvy Digital Malevolence Volvy My Hollow Digital Malevolence Metal has really lost the appeal it used to have for me. THIS. Metal is boring. Nobody is doing anything different, nobody is pushing the envelope. Even staple bands are now just ripping themselves off instead of doing something ..... good. I'd argue that it all depends on how deep you're willing to dig. I don't know....I've dug pretty deep, really. I bet I've had heard 8 out of ten bands you could name, unless they were Thrash, Speed or Heavy Metal bands. 8 out of 10 still leaves 20% unexplored. Besides, any genre that's got enough music in it to even BE a genre has to have a generic bulk, almost by definition. I defy you to name even 1 genre of music that doesn't have too many bands making the same sounds. Every genre is going to have that problem, to a degree. But with all of metal's subgenres, one would think diversity would be its strong point. In the end it is its downfall. With such diversity, bands dont feel preasured to push the enevlope. They dont feel as though they need to put in the effort to do something new. As long as they sound not so bad, it should be good enough. Why should Digital or Ash or I sit there and dig through mindless band after band after band, trying to find the oen underground band thats not seeling a demo, just because they have a decent sound. In the long run, it's not worth it. Metal is as dead as the subforums in this guild. Unless there is a big rejuvination (which I highly doubt will happen) Metal is not going anywhere. The so called "die hards" will stay within the genre because of the culture, the status, the mystic, the idea of metal but not because it is actually something worth identifying with. I strongly feel as though metal is a DIA at this point. Will I still go to shows? Sure. Will I still support my local scene? You bet. Am I willing to dish out $50 to go to a concert to see some big bands? Not on your life. When metal proves that it is worth the time and effort, then I'll recant. Until that day, I will get along just fine with Aggrotech, goth/country, Americana, and American Folk. Well you're going to feel how you feel. I can't really argue with that. I just think that the same basic argument could be made against any genre of music. But whatever. You have to listen to what you enjoy, and if you don't enjoy metal anymore then guess there's not much reason to listen to it. It just feels like you're trying to condemn an entire genre because of your personal preferences, though, and I guess that's the part of your statements I object to. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:21 pm
I take a slightly different approach from Hollow's explanation, Volvy.
My impression is that I've pretty much dug out the best of each subgenre of metal. When you've heard and absorbed the best, what else is there? There are precious few recent albums I'm at all interested in. It seems the best has already come and gone. It's a matter of uncovering and savoring it. The root of this problem is what Hollow mentioned - a lack of originality. Most of the contemporary acts that ARE worth hearing are more or less rehashes of the classics. For example, the stoner/doom kick (e.g. Electric Wizard) you're on right now is essentially just a rehash of music pioneered in the '70s and '80s. Am I saying that it's not quality music? No, not at all. But it's just a regression to the established standard of quality instead of an attempt to innovate. I've mentioned this before, but some of my favorite metal bands are those that borrow and use elements from numerous subgenres and even outside the genre of metal writ large. It just seems like there's precious few of those.
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:44 pm
Volvy I defy you to name even 1 genre of music that doesn't have too many bands making the same sounds. Powernoise, Power Electronics, and Psytrance.
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Digital Malevolence Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:57 pm
Digital Malevolence Volvy I defy you to name even 1 genre of music that doesn't have too many bands making the same sounds. Powernoise, Power Electronics, and Psytrance.
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:03 pm
Shadowlit Facade Digital Malevolence Volvy I defy you to name even 1 genre of music that doesn't have too many bands making the same sounds. Powernoise, Power Electronics, and Psytrance. I don't know, it seems like most artists in IDM have very similar sounds....
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Digital Malevolence Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:40 am
Well of course elements are taken. Every piece of music, going back hundreds (probably thousands) of years, has taken elements of music that came before it. Hell, Beethoven stole from Bach... that doesn't make his symphonies a "rehash", it just means he built on what was already there, just like anybody else in any creative field in human existence. As King Buzzo said, the most important part of becoming "great" in the world of music is to hide who you're stealing from really well. That's just the nature of the beast, and it applies to all fields of music, painting, literature, architecture, etc.
So of course there are tons of metal bands that sound the same (though I can't think of a 70's band I could mistake for Electric Wizard, I'd be interested if you can point me to one) but as you get more familiar with any other genre you get the same deal. Maybe you haven't had the time to explore enough of your newer music genres to see it, but rest assured you'll run into the same thing.
I mean, if you're bored with metal it's not like I'm going to change your mind. And to be honest I don't really care, I just find it humorous, ludicrous, and slightly annoying that you can take an essential flaw of ALL music and then pretend like it only applies to the types of music that are no longer interesting to you personally.
And I'm sorry you guys, but in my rather limited explorations of powernoise I've already run into so many bands that sound like each other that I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one. In fact, I'd argue that most bands I've heard in the heavily electronic styles of music are probably MORE similar to one another than is the case in many other genres. That doesn't make them bad, and if you like them better than other music then by all means enjoy. Don't pretend like your personal interest somehow makes them more original or unique though.
This is all just my opinion, and I'm aware that it's no more valid than anybody else's, so don't get offended or anything (though I'm guessing at least one of you will). It's just that a few statements on this subject have come across as rather pretentious. It feels like: "I'm not interested any more, so obviously your music is not as good as my new interests are and anybody who doesn't see that just isn't as smart as I am." And I have to be honest, I'm just bored and sleep deprived enough right now to find that a little irritating. If that's not what is being said then I apologize for taking it the wrong way, but right now that's what I'm hearing.
/rant.
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:41 am
tl:dr version:
All music copies other music, don't act like yours is any different.
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Digital Malevolence Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:15 am
I don't know about Hollow and Ash, but I don't believe my Aggrotech or Powernoise or whatever is better than Metal. I'm just saying the bands in them are more innovated, except maybe Aggrotech, thats a pretty repetitive genre.
Theres a few reasons I feel that way, and instead of doing what I was planning on doing, which was not even bothering to explain myself because I don't see why it matters, but it seems the wrong ideas have been made about what I was trying to say.
Powernoise, Power Electronics, and Post-Industrial Music and so forth, are all new genres. They've only been around for, maybe, twenty years for some, others less. So there is still tons to explore and develop in the genres, unlike Metal which has been around for close to 45 years. Metal uses the same five instruments in general; guitar, bass, drums, keyboard, vocals. All of these things have been around a long, long time. Except keyboards, but not a whole lot new ideas really gets put into the music for keyboardists in Metal, they all tend to have the same role for the most part. The same guitar riffs are being used over and over, or variations of them, because theres only so much you can do after 70 years of electric guitar playing.
Now, for example, Powernoise was invented around the 90's. It was mostly made back then by devices that people created and were sequenced with certain peices of hardware and such. Now computers have taken over most of those creations, but not all, computers just have a bigger part than they used to since not everyone had a computer in the early to mid nineties or the software required.
Oh, and Psytrance probably wasn't the best example I could have given in my previous post, I take it back.
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:10 am
Digital Malevolence I don't know about Hollow and Ash, but I don't believe my Aggrotech or Powernoise or whatever is better than Metal. I'm just saying the bands in them are more innovated, except maybe Aggrotech, thats a pretty repetitive genre. Theres a few reasons I feel that way, and instead of doing what I was planning on doing, which was not even bothering to explain myself because I don't see why it matters, but it seems the wrong ideas have been made about what I was trying to say. Powernoise, Power Electronics, and Post-Industrial Music and so forth, are all new genres. They've only been around for, maybe, twenty years for some, others less. So there is still tons to explore and develop in the genres, unlike Metal which has been around for close to 45 years. Metal uses the same five instruments in general; guitar, bass, drums, keyboard, vocals. All of these things have been around a long, long time. Except keyboards, but not a whole lot new ideas really gets put into the music for keyboardists in Metal, they all tend to have the same role for the most part. The same guitar riffs are being used over and over, or variations of them, because theres only so much you can do after 70 years of electric guitar playing. Now, for example, Powernoise was invented around the 90's. It was mostly made back then by devices that people created and were sequenced with certain peices of hardware and such. Now computers have taken over most of those creations, but not all, computers just have a bigger part than they used to since not everyone had a computer in the early to mid nineties or the software required. Oh, and Psytrance probably wasn't the best example I could have given in my previous post, I take it back. lol, I almost said something about psytrance too xp And yeah, I suppose a newer genre will have more room for immediate exploration. That doesn't mean that all (or even most) of the bands playing it have actually taken advantage of that room, but I get what you mean.
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:46 am
Also, I think we've drifted from the point of this thread.
I still think a cruise ship full of heavy music and chilling with bands I like would be awesome. dramallama
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:17 pm
Volvy I mean, if you're bored with metal it's not like I'm going to change your mind. And to be honest I don't really care, I just find it humorous, ludicrous, and slightly annoying that you can take an essential flaw of ALL music and then pretend like it only applies to the types of music that are no longer interesting to you personally. I'd like for you to point out exactly where I said this didn't apply to all music. Please, I would really like to see that bolded. Thing is though, I didn't. The fact of the matter is, what I said is true. Nobody is doing anything fresh, everything is sounding the same. When's the last time you heard a Goth, Folk, Death, or Power metal band that sounded really great an original. VERY, VERY few bands from the 2000's have come out with something new to put on the table. Yes, music before it will spark ideas and you will try to emmulate those you look up too, but we have a problem when all you do is found like some half-breed between your favorite bands. Take folk metal. I can tell you in pretty much any band, what bands they are trying to copy. Death metal is all starting to become bland in it's specific subs. Blackended Death all sounds like this.... thrashy death all sounds like this..... death/doom all sounds like...... There is no originality. And Metal is specifically suffering from this flaw, so YES. I AM going to say it applies to metal and YES I am going to say its metal's problem because the scene is floundering. Now I liked metal, no I freaking loved metal. Enough to devote a metal guild to it and sucessfully lead it. Enough to get myself envolved with the scene. Enough to buy magazines about it. Enough to have over 300 physical copies in my current possession- not including those I gave lost, broken, or given away. Not including my mp3 collection which is ridiculous. Enough to spend HOURS (more hours than I would ever care to admit) getting familiar with the entire scene as a whole, to make sure that I new this genre inside and out. Now, I have some major problems with metal, enough to the point where I can honestly say, when I go into a record store, I dont walk out with a metal cd anymore. I am not willing to waste my money on metal cd's, because in the end, usually it's a bust. I stopped taking chances because I have been so disapointed with it recently, it isnt worth it. It's a bold statement to tell me that I am not interested in it. It's not that I am not interested in it, it's that it's disapointing and I'm fed up with being diapointed. If I wasnt interested, I would just say "Metal sucks and I'm closing down the guild like I have been talking about for ages." I also said in my post that if metal starts doing something new, I will gladly recant and get more involved again. Does that sound like someone who is personally shutting it off for blatant reasons? No, it doesn't Volvy. Get your facts straight before you start making accusations. I have put my time and my effort into exploring all of the genres, and I have made conclusions based on my research. I am not alone in my thinking, clearly. But I have never been one to follow the norm, and I am not satisfied with mediocre music, but hey, that's just me, apparently.
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:17 pm
My Hollow I am not satisfied with mediocre music, but hey, that's just me, apparently. See? There's that attitude I was talking about. That statement would be pretty easy to interpret as "Anybody who disagrees with me on this clearly just doesn't know as much as I do." And I find that annoyingly arrogant. And no, you didn't say that these problems applied only to metal. But you singled out metal as redundant while talking about enjoying aggrotech (which even most fans of will admit mostly sounds the same). In fact, you're STILL pretending like it's a problem which mostly just applies to metal: "Metal is specifically suffering from this flaw, so YES. I AM going to say it applies to metal and YES I am going to say its metal's problem" And you didn't say you're not interested in metal in those exact words, but you'll have to forgive me if such statements as "Metal is boring" and "Metal is as dead as the subforums in this guild" pretty much give one that impression. In the end, I really don't give two craps whether you like metal or not. I'm just saying it's both arrogant and obnoxious to stand in the middle of a metal discussion in a metal guild and make statements like those. I hate soccer. But you know what I DON'T do? I don't stand in front of the tv while the World Cup is on, telling all the people trying to watch how stupid the game is and how they should be watching hockey instead. Rather, I go find something to do somewhere else, because in the words of Uncle Rico "If you don't like it... you can leave." So, as usual you'll probably now start acting like I'm the bad guy for "calling you out" and whining about how you get picked on when you try to express your opinion. And just like last time you'll ignore the fact that this discussion started due to me pointing out your obvious arrogance and assumed superiority. So yeah. I knew you would get offended (since you get offended by everything) and I assume you'll probably ban me for so openly attacking your views (despite the fact that you freely do the same to everybody else). And, my guess is that ~20 years of being a somewhat spoiled only child have so deeply ingrained your own self-importance that you'll walk away from this whole thing without ever once giving any genuine consideration to the possibility that you could be at fault in any way. I'm sorry if that's harsh, but I've been knocking around this guild for a pretty long time now, and I've had ample opportunity to see the way you behave. But whatever. I came to this guild to find other people who I could talk to about music we mutually enjoyed. Obviously talking about events and interests in the world of metal isn't ok here anymore, though, so if I do get banned I guess it won't be much of a loss at this point.
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