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I'm going to bump this thread to ask a sort of silly type of question, rather than make a new thread for it....

I'm reading "Cunning Folk and Familiar Spirits", which is quite interesting. It's a book on historical witchcraft by Emma Wilby. Ronald Hutton gave input on the draft, and it comes well recommended so I'm delighted to finally get my hands on it. The terms "cunning man" and "cunning woman" have popped up fairly early on and got me wondering.

If these terms are synonymous with witchcraft, does that mean you have to be cunning to qualify? Do you have to be, if not intelligent as such, perspicacious and thoughtful? Can we have, not to put too fine a point on it, stupid witches?

I've always understood that the term "cunning woman" was the medieval term for a herbalist (or natropath), many cunning women were accused of witchcraft because they were usually unmarried or widows, even though in some instances this may not have been the case. I dunno if that's the right way to interpret it though... confused

According to this book the terms were apparently used synonymously at the time - that is, in the 17th century - the author is detailing. The early modern period. Terms like "Cunning woman" were used to refer to people who did good work, while "witch" was someone who did bad. And that was essentially the difference then. We use "witch" differently now, but we don't really use "cunning man" at all.

And, that's sort of my point - I'm not asking whether stupid people can practice witchcraft, but whether stupid people qualify as witches - if having a brain, a sense of perspicacity, is part of the whole.

I don't think it would have to be institutionalised necessarily. I mean, I'm not advocating having some sort of system where people are assessed as to whether or not they're witches. Or that we go around telling people they're not witches because they're stupid. I was just interested.

I mean, back in The Day, you'd get plenty of uneducated people being witches... but probably not that many "stupid" ones as such.

I got into witchcraft at 14, and started out, like many do, calling myself a witch essentially sraight away. But that wore off fairly quickly, and it wasn't until I was 18 that I actually felt that I was a witch, and felt comfortable using the title. I do think it's more than just the practice of witchcraft, that it's something you become.

There's a guild floating around somewhere that mentions "cunning folk" in the title - I recall a few of us popping in for a look and leaving with the impression that the name was very ironic indeed. That's something else I'd thought of.

Could be. It's an interesting idea.

It's odd because "title" feels like a funny thing to call it. It's not like a title like "priest" or "MA" or whatever, like something you work towards, and first you aren't and then you are. No one gives it to you, or awards it. It's something you slowly become, that means different things to different people.

It's a humble title. "Priest" doesn't seem humble to me, because a priest is above the layperson in some sense. But a witch is alongside them.

I don't think all priests behave this way, just to flesh out my statement a bit. I often think of the Bishop in Les Miserables, who was humble as a curate and gave all of his things to others. But even within Paganism, even as a priest, as it were, without a flock - you're a priest for a reason, and that is that you serve your deity in a particular way. You are no longer a layperson.

I'm not sure I'm explaining well the way I feel... and don't get me wrong, I quite like priests. I like their dedication. Occasionally I feel I should like to be a priestess myself - perhaps a gythia. But in doing so I feel like I would be elevated in some sense. Not that my connection to my gods would necessarily become deeper, but within the community and in my personal practice there would be subtleties. Or something. It's something you become for or with someone else... whereas witch is something you just become yourself, for your own self's sake.

back when I was catholic I had mixed experiences with the clergy. Some were really approachable and others... less so. Maybe its because I went to catholic school and some of my teachers were actually nuns. I found them somewhat hard to relate to but I think it was mostly because I felt intimidated by their level of commitment to the religion and to God when I personally felt uncomfortable and intimidated by that religion. A lot of them were very down to earth though I do remember that much.

As far as witch as a title goes, I guess what I mean is it feels sorta like a title to me, because I don't think I'm there yet, so its something I want to be able to feel comfortable calling myself. Maybe that's why it feels that way to me.

I'll put this here because I feel like it adds on to this discussion.

So, I have a witch hangout in Heaven, and some dude came in and asked what witches believed. I said "nothing really, it depends on the witch", and he, quite rightly, called me on it and said "surely there must be SOME things all witches believe, else what is witchcraft?".

So instead of just tossing out the question I tried to compile a short list. The basis of the list is that all witches will believe most things on the list. Quite a few might disagree with one or two points, but they can't disagree on all of them as to me that would put them in the "not a witch" category - that is, I might consider what they do to be similar in some ways to witchcraft, but not witchcraft.

I am interested in input on the List. Please let me know if there's something you seriously disagree with, if you'd rephrase anything, or anything you would like to add to the List.

The List of Things Witches Believe:
- That there is energy, and that this energy can be raised, gathered, and manipulated.
- That this energy resides in oneself and in the world around one, including within objects.
- That spirits exist, whatever their nature.
- That the world, and possibly the future, can be further understood via divination.
- That there are Mysteries, and things that can be known.
- That there are other worlds, that one might be able to travel to, if one has the knack and puts in the work.

I am also interested in compiling a list of Things Witches Do, if you would be interested in suggesting items for that list.