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 Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:00 pm
Guys, read the Teacher Application. I ask them how they are experienced enough to teach the topic. Many of you are jumping the gun before you take the time to read what has been posted in the past. Teachers are not hired for no reason.
Furthermore, Anyone has the right to teach what they want, misinformation or not. I am not saying that I approve of absolute slander, but people have different views. Learn to accept it, it hurts less. The groups discussed here are all purist groups, and Wicca has evolved since then. If it helps you to accept that Solitary Wicca exists, think of it like a different sect. Look at Christianity, since we have been talking about them so much in the past month. There are Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, Baptists, and many more, all claiming to be Christian. No group accepts the other and things that their path is the right path. This only causes arguments. Look at them as different religions. Do not classify all of Wicca and "Wicca." Let Wicca and Solitary Wicca exist. They are different yet both valid paths.
We are also straying miles away from the topic. Do you want to learn from her? If yes, fill out the form, if not don't post here. You can start a new thread and we can discuss this there.
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:27 pm
Calelith And attempting to spread misinformation isn't disrespectful? rolleyes From what I've seen of this guild, the guild leader and crew wouldn't know what real Wicca was if it bit them in the a**. Every single member here is just as as fluffy as a pillow and won't listen to anyone otherwise. I'm done playing nice and speaking nicely. Maybe if I tell them ******** you a few times and be blunt about they might get out of their little defensive shell and realize that they aren't actually Wiccan. As I am, you will be I didn't say that misinformation was disrespectful, but this guild is about teaching others what information is right and wrong. And wait just a minute - I have not posted in this guild discussing what Wicca is, so how do you know that I don't know? That's called an assumption. Do you have any proof to back up that I do not know what real Wicca is, because I would really like to see it. All I'm saying is that I've seen the threads on the Gaia forums where people are extremely blunt and harsh on people who say that they are Wiccan, and it gets them nowhere. So, why not approach it from a different angle?
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:35 pm
Zab I respect you as a member of crew however I'm going to point out a few things here and now. They are really bugging me, and I'm not going to post a "new topic".
Christianity and Wicca, true Wicca are vastly different. There are WORLDS apart. I'm an ex-Catholic. Been there done that, went through CCD classes so I know how Catholicism works a bit. Within Catholicism you cannot call yourself a Catholic without going through 4 out of the 7 sacraments (Baptism, Reconcilition, Communion and Confirmation. Last I checked these are the core of Catholicism and the most important. If you don't do one, or don't do all of them you cannot call yourself a Catholic. You can be a Christian, but a Catholic you cannot). However Christianity is an orthodoxy. Wicca is an orthopraxy. Orthodoxy is right belief. Orthopraxy is right practice. Again these two are totally different from each other so it's not correct to compare one another.
That being said, Wicca is also a priesthood. When you are initiated as a Wiccan you declared a witch and a priest. A religion can be open to it's practioners, yes, however when it comes to a priesthood you need to be very selective. Which is why High Priests and High Priestess of each coven from the traditions I've listed are selective in picking who is a proper person that can initate and who is not.
In the same instance Catholic priests are very selective (or they were/should be) in who they allow to be a priest. Not everyone is called to priesthood. Those who go through the neccessary qualifications, and have studied their hardest can become a priest. You cannot simply read from a book and declare oneself a priest. Wicca is the same as that. You can't automatically declare yourself a Wiccan without going through the neccessary procedures outlined by Gerald Gardner in his laws, the Ardanes.
Solitary Wicca can be allowed as ECLECTIC NEO-PAGANISM. Which is basically what Solitary Wicca is in essence. As I stated previously there is no need for solitary Wicca. Why should there be? Because some people who made a profit of harming those who earned the title, or have had a grudge with Gardner said so?
Zab you said that the premise of the faction (I use faction in place of guild because I've been playing pwi wayyy too much) was to be respectful to others, and to be courteous. I'm sorry, but having people claim solitary Wicca is rude, disrespectful, harmful, and very much against the Rede, to those who have actually earned the title. You cannot tell us to be respectful without being respectful to those who have rightfully earned the title. So yes in a way you do seem very hypocritical.
@Kouldelka And being blunt, giving the information, actually has helped. I don't know about you kouldelka but the teachers I had were pretty blunt and straightforward with the material they were teaching. It is the best way for someone to learn. It is not the teacher's fault that some are beligerent who will go on the attack and stick their fingers in their ears. If this was of teaching is "extremely harmful" then we should eliminate schools.
The bottom line is: Misappropriation needs to stop. Period. Or do you really want me to bring up the Frosts and how vile they are to the Wiccan community as well as the Pagan community? Because I can do that. neutral
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:54 pm
Calelith ]@Too: So we're suppose to cuddle the misinformed and willfully ignorant now, because they cannot handle a bit of brutal honesty or someone being blunt? Not cuddle, but simply show some basic common courtesy. In most cases the person you are talking to (at least the first time you say something to them) probably truly doesn't know any better, so instead of automatically assuming that they are being willfully ignorant and shoving the correct information down their throats, try being a little nicer to them. Understand that it is extremely painful to realize that there are authors out there that care more about the $$$ they make, than the fact that the information that they are putting out there is incorrect. It is devastating to realize that everything you thought you knew...isn't really the way it is. Try to put yourself in their position for just a brief moment, and then speak in a manner that you would want someone to speak to you - if you were in that position. Blunt is fine, to the point is fine - outright rudeness is uncalled for. Flaming people because they are having difficulty letting go of what they thought was right, is not acceptable. Because of the way that you "speak" to people, those who might otherwise be open to listening to your message, are immediately shutting you out because of your "delivery method". I know all about running out of patience (the older I get, the less I have sweatdrop ), but yelling at everyone isn't helping. zabazor Anyone has the right to teach what they want, misinformation or not. I'm sorry...but no. Anyone can want to teach, that doesn't mean they should be allowed to teach, or that they have the right to teach. There are things called "standards", and it's not just a matter of "people have different views". It is a matter (if one is in charge of such things) to make sure that those who are teaching, are qualified to do so. Otherwise you are doing a huge disservice to your students. Let's say I woke up this morning and decided that I'm going to teach "How to Perform Open-Heart Surgery". I've been studying it in books for a number of years, and I've got a very detailed knowledge (at least on paper) of exactly how it's done. According to you, not only should I be allowed to teach it...it's apparently my right to do so. It is the same with any other class - no matter how simple or complicated the subject matter - does the person teaching it actually have the proper qualifications to be passing their knowledge on to someone else. To do otherwise, could be downright dangerous.
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:59 pm
Calelith From what I've seen of this guild, the guild leader and crew wouldn't know what real Wicca was if it bit them in the a**. Every single member here is just as as fluffy as a pillow and won't listen to anyone otherwise. I'm done playing nice and speaking nicely. Maybe if I tell them ******** you a few times and be blunt about they might get out of their little defensive shell and realize that they aren't actually Wiccan. i am VERY upset that you call every single member fluffy i am NOT a fluffy i follow wiccan ways i am not wiccan i have come to terms with that and i dont mind i am proud of who i am and like i just said in another thread everyone has free will
they have the choice to belive in what ever they wish or choose
no matter what that may be your being very disrespectful to what others believe in
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:59 pm
xLady Tsukiyox @Kouldelka And being blunt, giving the information, actually has helped. I don't know about you kouldelka but the teachers I had were pretty blunt and straightforward with the material they were teaching. It is the best way for someone to learn. It is not the teacher's fault that some are beligerent who will go on the attack and stick their fingers in their ears. If this was of teaching is "extremely harmful" then we should eliminate schools. Did I say that it's "extremely harmful"? The answer is no. I'm saying that although there are people for who it does work, there are others for who it doesn't work. Some people can accept the bluntness, but some can't. I'm assuming here that you mean school teachers? I'm not entirely sure how to describe them. They taught the subjects, but they also used different ways to get students to learn. There was the year 6 (I think that would be 5th Grade) teacher who saw that we were getting bored reading about muscles, so he rolled his shirt sleeve up and taught us by using his own muscles as an example. When we had to learn about the Victorians, we had a Victorian day. We dressed up, ate the kind of lunch Victorian schoolchildren would have, and even used slates. So, different ways of teaching can also be effective. I'm not saying that being blunt doesn't, but it doesn't work for everybody. Otherwise everybody would be the same, and that's impossible.
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:06 pm
FlyingPinkElefantSaysMeow Calelith From what I've seen of this guild, the guild leader and crew wouldn't know what real Wicca was if it bit them in the a**. Every single member here is just as as fluffy as a pillow and won't listen to anyone otherwise. I'm done playing nice and speaking nicely. Maybe if I tell them ******** you a few times and be blunt about they might get out of their little defensive shell and realize that they aren't actually Wiccan. i am VERY upset that you call every single member fluffy i am NOT a fluffy i follow wiccan ways i am not wiccan i have come to terms with that and i dont mind i am proud of who i am and like i just said in another thread everyone has free will
they have the choice to belive in what ever they wish or choose
no matter what that may be your being very disrespectful to what others believe in And saying you believe in "Wiccan ways" isn't disrespectful to those who are actually Wiccan?
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:07 pm
FlyingPinkElefantSaysMeow everyone has free will
they have the choice to belive in what ever they wish or choose
no matter what that may be your being very disrespectful to what others believe in While everyone has free will and can believe what they want, I know that I for one would rather have my beliefs built on a foundation of truth/facts, rather than something that may or may not be true. If I am going to claim a title, or claim to be a member of something, I want to know that I have met all the necessary requirements, or steps necessary. To do otherwise is extremely disrespectful to the ones who are proper members, and/or the cultures/faiths/Gods, etc... involved. edit...xLady Tsukiyox And saying you believe in "Wiccan ways" isn't disrespectful to those who are actually Wiccan? Not so much, as there is published "outer-court" info that she is probably basing that statement on. If one is a seeker, then odds are they are going to believe in "wiccan" ways - even if what they later learn in training, ends up being somewhat different. Eclectic Neo-Pagans base quite a bit of what they do on the published "outer-court" material, and as has been mentioned any number of times on A&J, seekers are expected to practice that while seeking. So it's a fair enough statement to make.
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:15 pm
too2sweet FlyingPinkElefantSaysMeow xLady Tsukiyox And saying you believe in "Wiccan ways" isn't disrespectful to those who are actually Wiccan? Not so much, as there is published "outer-court" info that she is probably basing that statement on. If one is a seeker, then odds are they are going to believe in "wiccan" ways - even if what they later learn in training, ends up being somewhat different. Eclectic Neo-Pagans base quite a bit of what they do on the published "outer-court" material, and as has been mentioned any number of times on A&J, seekers are expected to practice that while seeking. So it's a fair enough statement to make. Wouldn't it be better to say pagan ways instead of Wiccan. Regardless if outer court material is published or not.
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:17 pm
xLady Tsukiyox FlyingPinkElefantSaysMeow Calelith From what I've seen of this guild, the guild leader and crew wouldn't know what real Wicca was if it bit them in the a**. Every single member here is just as as fluffy as a pillow and won't listen to anyone otherwise. I'm done playing nice and speaking nicely. Maybe if I tell them ******** you a few times and be blunt about they might get out of their little defensive shell and realize that they aren't actually Wiccan. i am VERY upset that you call every single member fluffy i am NOT a fluffy i follow wiccan ways i am not wiccan i have come to terms with that and i dont mind i am proud of who i am and like i just said in another thread everyone has free will
they have the choice to belive in what ever they wish or choose
no matter what that may be your being very disrespectful to what others believe in And saying you believe in "Wiccan ways" isn't disrespectful to those who are actually Wiccan? i believe in the 3 fold law,the summerland,the five elements, i pray on the Sabbats and esbats what should i call it then? what should i name my beliefs? i am a Neopagan but i am not wiccan i do believe in what mostly falls under wicca i do not wish to become wiccan when i am older, or become a part of a coven because i like connecting to the earth, the god and the goddess on my own, i feel alot more connected i do not mean to disrespect wiccans in any way
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:23 pm
FlyingPinkElefantSaysMeow xLady Tsukiyox FlyingPinkElefantSaysMeow Calelith From what I've seen of this guild, the guild leader and crew wouldn't know what real Wicca was if it bit them in the a**. Every single member here is just as as fluffy as a pillow and won't listen to anyone otherwise. I'm done playing nice and speaking nicely. Maybe if I tell them ******** you a few times and be blunt about they might get out of their little defensive shell and realize that they aren't actually Wiccan. i am VERY upset that you call every single member fluffy i am NOT a fluffy i follow wiccan ways i am not wiccan i have come to terms with that and i dont mind i am proud of who i am and like i just said in another thread everyone has free will
they have the choice to belive in what ever they wish or choose
no matter what that may be your being very disrespectful to what others believe in And saying you believe in "Wiccan ways" isn't disrespectful to those who are actually Wiccan? i believe in the 3 fold law,the summerland,the five elements, i pray on the Sabbats and esbats what should i call it then? what should i name my beliefs? i am a Neopagan but i am not wiccan i do believe in what mostly falls under wicca i do not wish to become wiccan when i am older, or become a part of a coven because i like connecting to the earth, the god and the goddess on my own, i feel alot more connected i do not mean to disrespect wiccans in any way All of those things are more basic neo-pagan things than actually Wiccan. .___.
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:31 pm
why are we arguing? this thread should be locked and we all should move on
if she wishes to become a teacher and is accepted than let her
i am not going to let this upset me or anyone else from here on
because i am VERY upset right now emo
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:41 pm
In any case, I'm going to revoke my membership. I thought this was the place to learn. But I'm afraid this isn't the case.
See ya.
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:00 pm
After reading through this thread, I am also going to revoke my membership. I don't think those at the head of a head, the authority figures, should encourage the spread of misinformation. I've seen groups on other sites torn to shreds over this same problem, and I'm not going to be a part of that again.
Good-bye.
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:08 pm
*So much for getting everyone back on topic*
The type of teaching method that is blunt and to the point, regardless of other peoples feelings and opinions, tends to not work very well online. There is no sense of tone online. No one can tell if you are using harsh words in a calm tone or a mean one. With this, we must use calm diction to express ourselves if we want others to listen to us. Also there is one big problem with talking to people online. There is no proof that anyone should listen to you, as a teacher or otherwise. There is no way to prove that you are who you claim to be. For all you know I can be a woman who is secretly a convict. Now if that were the case, less people would believe just because I was a convict. But I am not either, but how can you know that? The only thing we can rely upon is trust. However, trust can not be founded upon disrespect. That only causes more hate. Lastly, because there is no proof as to who you are, it is impossible to obtain the same level of respect that you would otherwise have in the real world. The reason that teachers, in the real world school systems, can be blunt, and their students believe them, is because they have a degree and because they have been put there because they are credited in their field. As just any member of a guild, you can not expect to have that level of respect just because you post something as "fact." Without respect, people tend to react to bluntness poorly. That is why we are asking you to write cautiously. Do not swear, it shows a negative tone, which will get you a negative reply. Do not tell someone that they are completely wrong. Redirect them. Give them your side of the argument in a kind way and tell them that they are not all wrong, just slightly less perfect. That should not hurt anyone to much. Be thoughtful is all I can say.
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Reply
