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 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:17 am
Quote: 1. In order to comply with the mass audience's tastes and expectations, it's highly likely that whatever team gets to be in charge of producing it will have to both distort the original storylines and add new twists and plots totally alien to the original Gensokyo spirit. More specifically: - Introducing love relationships; And fans don't already? This honestly I wouldn't mind too much depending on how obvious they made it.- Creating an abnormal amount of highly story-relevant male characters (******** NO); Haha no.- Changing the character's personalities to make them look either absolutely good or absolutely evil (which is something that never happened in the games - hell, the plots of most of them are based on misunderstandings and on each side thinking ill of the other); The only characters I could possibly consider to be absolute evil are Yuka and Mima. The only absolute good character really is Shikieiki.- Telling the story from the point of view of only one character (Raymoo, obviously); Of course, but there are animes that DO show the story from the point of view of the so called villains. Sure the majority of the show would take place from Reimu's POV, but not the entire thing.- And so on. Also, to wrap this all up...pretty much none of that would be anything to worry about. If there WAS an official anime, ZUN would have a say in everything that goes on. Otherwise it wouldn't be official. So there wouldn't be any problem.2. What makes all the doujin art and music possible is the high versatility, vagueness, and self-contradiction lots of aspects of the Touhouverse have. An anime would shift lots of those aspects to a rigid state. Examples: - Lots of doujin music has dialogues between characters. Guess how many doujin songs like that will be released after each Touhoe gets an official voice. None. Once again, haha no. People will still release all kinds of music anyway.- Same as above for the clothes. Say goodbye to alternate outfits art after the anime shows them with the same attire in every single episode. They wear pretty much the same things in every game anyway, so why do you care? People will still draw alternate outfits anyway.3. As Meiling said, Touhou will get lots of new fans, who (unlike most pre-anime fans) are much more prone to s**t up the whole fanbase by constantly bitching about powerlevels and making half-assed doujin art (I don't blame those who really can't draw or write; I talk about those who make a generic Walfas strip and think they're on, say, TAMUSIC or IOSYS' level). We already have stupid fans, this'll just give us more of them. As time goes on, a lot of them will probably learn about the original games, and become ehh...less stupid. Probably. Besides, the anime will still probably never be released outside of Japan, which will cut down the majority of the idiot fanbase.4. Maikaze has already shown us what danmaku will look like in TV screens. That beautiful patterns and designs we know and love will be reduced to generic explosions. The only way to show them at their full beauty would be to show spellcard battles from an above point of view (just like in the games), which would suck a** because it would imply viewing the characters from the same angle for hours on end. They just didn't do it right. If there were to be an official anime, which of course ZUN would probably offer some help with, I'm sure it'd look much better.5. Finally, and most important of all: Most new fans won't give two shits about the games. We already have fans like that. A whole shitload of themtl;dr I wouldn't mind an official ZUN-approved anime. Because if ZUN approves it, then it's up to the standard it needs to be.
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:25 am
Miasma Melancholy tl;dr I wouldn't mind an official ZUN-approved anime. Because if ZUN approves it, then it's up to the standard it needs to be. ^This.
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:33 am
Hanzo Komeiji Miasma Melancholy tl;dr I wouldn't mind an official ZUN-approved anime. Because if ZUN approves it, then it's up to the standard it needs to be. ^This. Double ^This
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:41 am
Miasma Melancholy - Introducing love relationships And fans don't already?But if any love relationship becames official, the amount of fan content involving other non-canon relationships will decrease a huge lot. Miasma Melancholy The only characters I could possibly consider to be absolute evil are Yuka and Mima. The only absolute good character really is Shikieiki. Yea. Only three in about a total of +90 characters. Hence why I think the producers will want to have more heroes and villains. Miasma Melancholy - Lots of doujin music has dialogues between characters. Guess how many doujin songs like that will be released after each Touhoe gets an official voice. None. Once again, haha no. People will still release all kinds of music anyway.I'm only speaking about non-instrumental music. I don't think doujin songs with alternate character voices will be very well-received. Miasma Melancholy We already have stupid fans, this'll just give us more of them. As time goes on, a lot of them will probably learn about the original games, and become ehh...less stupid. Do you think so? I'm pessimistic about it. Miasma Melancholy Most new fans won't give two shits about the games. We already have fans like that. A whole shitload of them...so? Do you want even more of 'em? Miasma Melancholy If there WAS an official anime, ZUN would have a say in everything that goes on. [...] if ZUN approves it, then it's up to the standard it needs to be. I don't think ZUN will involve himself in the making of the anime. He'll probably just sell the full production rights and sit back.
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:51 am
Come now, plenty of anime series don't include very many 'canon' relationships, and Touhou would almost certainly be included in this list. Even if otherwise, there are plenty of people, myself included, who ship non-canon pairings from their favorite series. Loknar Yakyumo Ran 1 way to annoy ZUN: take away his alcohol. Absolute Victory.^ This... gonk
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:08 pm
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:56 pm
Ok so I reviewed Wotan's reason as to why he thinks a Touhou anime would be bad. I'm really not seeing it from his point of view though. To be exact:
Point 1 (catering to the masses)
-introducing relationships
-changing personalities
-singular character point of view
You're clutching at straws here mate. All of that is pure story telling. Touhou is all about incidents. If anything ZUN could write an incident based story and make the anime a very short OVA, or even a single movie length anime. With the longevity gone then all reason for throwing in a relationship suddenly vanishes.
Point 2 (vagueness in stories)
-doujin music
-alternate clothing
Somehow I doubt that anyone who would be in production of anime will care about doujin voices, I doubt ZUN himself cares about them. There will still be doujin music and who's to stop anyone from imitating the voices? And as for the clothing thing, is this a real reason? How many times has Reimu's outfit had variations? How many times has Flandre's outfit never changed? If you're that worried about changing outfits over a time period then think again about the short OVA and kiss this thought goodbye.
Point 3 (expanded but ignorant fanbase)
....Yeah that's already happening. But some fans are willing to learn. I was a bad fan at the start, I just came into touhou because someone mentioned Cirno day last year, I didn't even know who Reimu was till 3 months later (met Marisa 1st). Let's leave this point alone.
Point 4 (Danmaku application)
That one is definitely a massive obstacle, probably the only valid point of the group. Maybe if there's a very creative art director it could be done. 3D danmaku has been done before, but in doujin games. I don't mean that jump and shoot one with the boxy graphics, it's a different game which is actually a scrolling (ascending) shooter but your movement is basically around a cylindrical environment. That's all just conjecture but if there really is a clever art guy doing it then who knows.
Point 5 (Fans who don't care)
Shouldn't that have been a subsection of point 3? I'm pretty sure there's already fans like that already. An anime would cause more so more reason to keep it short.
In the end this is all jabber, the ZUN of ZUN has said no anime. So let's just make another SWR style game and make Byakuren playable!
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:35 pm
If I was going to annoy ZUN it would probably come in the form of poking him with a stick telling him to hurry with the next game.
(I will be back later, as I really want to put in my two yen on the touhou anime idea)
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:23 pm
Yakyumo Ran a bunch of stuff I'm not writing to avoid unnecessary post length. First, keep in mind I'm basing my opinions on the assumption that ZUN will most likely leave everything into the producer's hands, and you're basing yours on the assumption that ZUN will be supervising even the tiniest detail. Thus, regarding point 1, and part of 2 and 5, both your conclusions and mine are valid; it all depends on how things finally end up happening. I guess we can't tell for sure until ZUN announces they're going to do an anime and spares us fans the details about it. An OVA would be ten thousand times better, in my opinion. As for point 3 and the first part of point 5, it's rather simple, just like I've said before: An anime will make the willingly ignorant type of fans grow much faster. Well, actually, I don't mind if they content themselves with fan videos and Pixiv. But that kind of fans are the exact same type that is much more prone to start repeating memes endlessly in any type of discussion, bragging about how they "know more about Touhou than you" and treating fanon and canon like the same thing. I have nothing to say about point 4, and I agree on the need of a new SWR style game. With Ichirin + Unzan in it, if possible. 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:28 pm
Whoa, I'm expecting lolz, not a discussion about this surprised . I can't believe you guys take this over too seriously but oh well, I think a discussion would arise in this situations. Just keep in mind, if you guys ARE talking about the anime project based on the STUDIO FJ productions, then that i'll Ignore. Touhou had a huge demand for it's anime version, I don't blame the fans if they keep asking TSA(Team Shanghai Alice) if they keep asking to make the series, but if there were to be a poll, and TSA makes it official, then they'd actually do it. All they need is that if fans ARE indeed loyal. There is no point arguing about it. sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:40 pm
I think I had WAY too much fun with this. I am going to seperate it in to three posts to make it alittle more manageable ^ ^'
Hmm, where to begin...well the anime industry isin't hollywood, so there is at least some hope. Though creating a Touhou anime would have to be a delicate process as there are both very high standards and several diffrent expectations from fans. They could probably make it work with three simple guide lines.
1. A pointless story. There is no need for twists or overly complicated stories in a Touhou anime, the characters is whats going to cause the sells. So long as they don't try too hard to make Touhou into something else (Youkai civil war, brink of Gensokyo apocalypse, etc), it shouldn't be too bad. Idealistically the story should take the form of "just another incident" as if it were the story of the new game, a retelling of certain game stories, or a collection of one shot just for fun stories (Think galaxy angel)
2. Make it look good. Self explanatory, and so long as they don't try to milk the series by stretching it out or cutting animation costs, seems like the most likely they would do right.
3. FANSERVICE! I don't mean "So Reimu wears a dress and flies high in the sky..." kind of fan service, I mean they need to add in many of the jokes and quirks well known among fans. Simply adding something like Rumia saying "So nanoka", a simple line on Sakuya's bust change, Kaguya falling back on the help of Eirin when in trouble, and etc would make a huge diffrence with the fans. It would not be hard to do, disarm some skeptisism as it would give the new format a vaguely familiar tone, make the fans feel apreciated, and add material for anyone who watches in general.
I get the feeling I got off track. We weren't talking about how to make a Touhou anime good, but what would make a Touhou anime a bad thing if made. So in response to Wotan's list...
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:45 pm
1. As I said, they arn't hollywood, they arn't trying to sell it to the general public, but to Otakus, which tend to overlap with people who are into Touhou anyways, so this probably won't be so bad. The selling potential for some one seeking to cash in on the Touhou franchise in an anime market would be cute girls, super power battles, and whimical fun story/comedy. My biggest concern is if they try to overplay the story in attempt to make Touhou seem more exciting, while the most likely change they will make is adding in some "Aya" shots.
- Introducing love relationships - More likely not, unless the character is specifically there as a love interest or it is one of those type of stories, I think producers like to keep cute girls single, to give them that kind of "their available" feel, so you could date them if it wasn't impossible! Not unlike some popstars. The only one I think in danger of doing this would be Marisa and Rinnouske, using their past as a platform of making them each others love interests.
- But if any love relationship becames official... - If you were pick up a doujinshi of most offcial anime, chances are it is Hentai. Hentai placing any character A with Character B who have parts that fit together, and many times even when they don't. So I don't think that is too much of a problem. I mean look at the mess that is Naruto -_-
- Creating an abnormal amount of highly story-relevant male characters (******** NO) - Again more likely not. It is possible as an attempt to make a character the males can "relate" to, but simply cute girls make for a better marketing buissness (No one buys merchandise of the guy from a harem anime) so they would probably try to stick to that formula
- Changing the character's personalities... - In a general sense, I would say this would be more likely for a game than an anime. In a game you want the player to want to kill the enemies. The obvious way to do this is make the player the "good" guy and the enemies the "bad" guy. That way when the player slaughters a couple hundred mooks to save ONE girl, they don't only not feel bad, they feel happy to have killed off so many. and in anime you run to several cases of the antagonists having noble goals, for example "We need kill off the humans cause...*tear* they are killing this beautiful planet" (Hell, even the genecidal mindless bugs in Blue gender used that damn excuse).
- Telling the story from the point of view of only one character (Raymoo, obviously) - Again more likely to happen in a game, since the point of view would come from the player controlled character. Heck, in most the games the point of view simply comes from Reimu or Marisa, since they are the one you are controling. You don't see the side of Yuyuko and Youmu collecting spring, you get told about it from the perspective of the heroine. An anime may serve as a medium to spread around some air time.
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:50 pm
2. This would be the most troubling out of your reasons, however the fan doujin community is quite strong and I don't think they would suffer too much, heck the anime may serve as a source of new fan jokes for characters. For voices, as long as they match the character, I don't think they would mind much. Clothes I think have been discussed. However if your worries are about more fans who blur the line between fanon and canon, assuming ZUN gives the thumb up to accept this as an official source, most new fans would be then quoting from canon, and not fanon (though I do think fanon plays a very important part in Touhou's popularity). 3. The new fans would more likely than not be casual fans. Simply they liked an anime about a Miko in a place called Gensokyo. If more people find something to like from touhou, than thats a good thing to me. The fans that do seem disruptive are the "real" fans, who seem intent of claiming that there must be a specific way to like touhou and bash fans who do not know the series too well. I am not offended when some posts on a fan pv "Is this an anime?", cause to me that simply means some one has stumbled upon something they liked and wish to know more about it. 4. I think fans already display a number of fights in non-damuku format. However Damaku it self I think is used because it is a danmaku game, as opposed to story purposes. For example, Rumia has power over darkness and Wriggle has power over bugs, but since all combat takes the form of danmaku, it really dosen't matter. Trying to transfer danmaku fighting as is into other sources makes as much sense as trying to tranfer character lives and points. An anime would be a good source to explore character powers in a more natural setting. It would allow Youmu to use her swords as melee weapons and Mei ling to use her fists in close combat (not unlike SWR). Certain spellcards can also simply be slightly altered in order to work in a 3d enviorment, Icicle fall and Straw doll kamikaze for example has many times been shown as such, others can substitue the bottem/top of the screen with merely the ground/sky such as Delusion of Enlightenment and Colorful rain. Kinema Kan did a pretty decent job of displaying danmaku in a three dementional format. 5. the way I see it, you either have people who don't give a s**t about the games, or you have someone who dosen't give a s**t about the games, but likes Touhou as an anime. However, I get the feeling it would become heavily commercialised. On one end more touhou merchandise. Unfortuneatly producers would probably try to hijack the whole touhou project in order to get a monopoly on merchandising. I remember ZUN saying something along the lines that the Touhou is not a series, due to a series being something you market to keep getting money. A high production doujin anime would be the most ideal. Well that was fun ^ ^
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:41 am
Yakyumo Ran In the end this is all jabber, the ZUN of ZUN has said no anime. So let's just make another SWR style game and make Byakuren playable! ^This
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:53 am
Ah, this discussion is quite interesting. Shingami Hiroshi the story should take the form of [...] a collection of one shot just for fun stories This would actually prevent lots of mass catering and "mainstreamisation". I like it. By the way, Galaxy Angel was awesome. Shingami Hiroshi they need to add in many of the jokes and quirks well known among fans. Simply adding something like Rumia saying "So nanoka", a simple line on Sakuya's bust change, Kaguya falling back on the help of Eirin when in trouble, and etc would make a huge diffrence with the fans. They should be very, very, careful if they are going to do that... but it might (or might not) work.
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