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The Mary-Sue Litmus Test Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2

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Javier Cross
Captain

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:10 pm


Marila123
22. yay. border-sue. this took a lot of time though. It's a good thing you have this, and you should probably make new members take it before posting (if you haven't already) and so, now I will go draw my one character and think about adding another ^^ this is a wonderful test, mostly because it was fun in my opinion and most roleplays like this could really use it!


Do not thank me directly, thank The Sweet Irony for it, instead, please.
But yes, the score does its job well.

Also if i had to admit, Mistress Black is essentially a deus ex machina life-form of some sort, kind of like the Old Ones from the Dark Is Rising series by Susan Cooper, in fact.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:18 pm


So I haven't made a character yet, and honestly, I'm still looking around and deciding where and when to, but even so, I feel like I should post somewhere so I'm not being an entirely inactive member.

I gotta say, I'm glad that this thread hasn't been posted in in a while, because this test is rather.... biased. I mean, think about it- what is it that makes a Mary Sue? What's the definition? The general textbook term seems to be 'a character who's perfect in every way and has no flaws', but then again, a character who's universally hated by all other characters is generally labeled as a 'Sue' as well. In fact...

If one creates a unique female character: "Well, she's way too out there, she must be a Mary Sue."

An average female character: "She's way too boring! What a Sue!"

A strong, independent female character: "She's way too overdone, what a Mary Sue!"

A weak female character: "That's degrading to women! What a Sue!"

...So what is it really that makes a Sue? Because clearly everyone has different definitions of it and loves to point fingers simply because they dislike a character. If one tries to defend their character, or simply ignore the obscenely baseless accusation, they are ridiculed.

I mean, let's be real here, is having a character named Raven or Hunter something that makes them a Sue? Is having a common spelling or an unusual spelling of a name of all things going to make them fit the bill? And what's wrong with having a character with good physical characteristics, really?

Having people constantly preach about Mary Sues, when there's really no definite term beyond their own personal feelings, just makes people hesitant to make a character in the first place. Who can blame them, when they just run the incredibly high risk of being falsely labeled and urged to kill off their own creation?

There are character types that I don't like, and there are OCs that I would probably like a lot more if they were more well written- but that does not make one a Mary Sue or Gary Stu. It's true that fiction is based in realism, and that characters have to have realistic emotions and abilities- obviously god-modding is bad, for example; however, fiction is also not real. It's a world of fantasy and things that couldn't happen, and people make OCs because they want to enjoy that world- those fantasies.

Considering that, maybe we should consider that Sues are neither as good or bad as people make them out to be, maybe we should consider the fact that there's actually no such thing, and maybe we should realize that reprimanding people because you dislike a character that they like is both futile and mean.

People will develop characters on their own, and those characters will grow as the creator's writing and personal experiences grow- that's the natural way for OC character development to occur. They shouldn't have to change something they went out of their way to create for fun simply because it's labeled too 'Sueish' by someone else's standards.

tldr; There's no such thing as a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.

'Nuff said.

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Javier Cross
Captain

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:32 pm


Wrath_of_Bahamut
So I haven't made a character yet, and honestly, I'm still looking around and deciding where and when to, but even so, I feel like I should post somewhere so I'm not being an entirely inactive member.

I gotta say, I'm glad that this thread hasn't been posted in in a while, because this test is rather.... biased. I mean, think about it- what is it that makes a Mary Sue? What's the definition? The general textbook term seems to be 'a character who's perfect in every way and has no flaws', but then again, a character who's universally hated by all other characters is generally labeled as a 'Sue' as well. In fact...

If one creates a unique female character: "Well, she's way too out there, she must be a Mary Sue."

An average female character: "She's way too boring! What a Sue!"

A strong, independent female character: "She's way too overdone, what a Mary Sue!"

A weak female character: "That's degrading to women! What a Sue!"

...So what is it really that makes a Sue? Because clearly everyone has different definitions of it and loves to point fingers simply because they dislike a character. If one tries to defend their character, or simply ignore the obscenely baseless accusation, they are ridiculed.

I mean, let's be real here, is having a character named Raven or Hunter something that makes them a Sue? Is having a common spelling or an unusual spelling of a name of all things going to make them fit the bill? And what's wrong with having a character with good physical characteristics, really?

Having people constantly preach about Mary Sues, when there's really no definite term beyond their own personal feelings, just makes people hesitant to make a character in the first place. Who can blame them, when they just run the incredibly high risk of being falsely labeled and urged to kill off their own creation?

There are character types that I don't like, and there are OCs that I would probably like a lot more if they were more well written- but that does not make one a Mary Sue or Gary Stu. It's true that fiction is based in realism, and that characters have to have realistic emotions and abilities- obviously god-modding is bad, for example; however, fiction is also not real. It's a world of fantasy and things that couldn't happen, and people make OCs because they want to enjoy that world- those fantasies.

Considering that, maybe we should consider that Sues are neither as good or bad as people make them out to be, maybe we should consider the fact that there's actually no such thing, and maybe we should realize that reprimanding people because you dislike a character that they like is both futile and mean.

People will develop characters on their own, and those characters will grow as the creator's writing and personal experiences grow- that's the natural way for OC character development to occur. They shouldn't have to change something they went out of their way to create for fun simply because it's labeled too 'Sueish' by someone else's standards.

tldr; There's no such thing as a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.

'Nuff said.


No wonder why writing in the U.S has generally went so stagnant.
That and regards to checking as to whether or not the waterfalls of Consequences is still flowing correctly.

Without the two things to know, the stagnation will continue and we will be stuck with the free-for-alls with no credibility.

Thank you.

P.S: There may be Original cast members who are naturally terrifying as hell, but most of the time its for actually good reasons if the consequences are operating fine.
For cases that are terrifying without good reasons, that warrants its own thread for discussion.
P.P.S: If that term is mis-used, either someone is a jaded closet tinfoiler or a troll in disguise, we have too many of either to go around and the former needs to get help to get a grip and the latter is to be ignored at all costs.  
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The Fleet Station and Recruitment Center!

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