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 Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:39 am
I'M LOVIN' IT *grammatically incorrect!*
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:14 am
Out of the goodness of my heart I decided not to make a private forum for these matters.
Please respect the rules and refrain from posting in here unless your name appears on the list, or future endeavours will be restricted access.
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:01 pm
At least my version do. ^_^
It gives Vayan and Meta extra kick range and strength, but if they make one wrong move they can break the joint.
AWRIGHT! Here's the idea responses.
1. Path limitations.
I'm not sure the Path limitations are the way to go. They would need to be implemented if we do indeed decide to stick with the path system, but if we go with a Class system, then they become... well, bluntly, irrelevant. >_>
If we do decide to go with that, I'd suggest 7 Paths as the limit.
It's just such a nice number~.
2. Inter-path limitations.
Much as it seems like a decent idea, the inter-path limitations seem like they might be more work than they're worth. I think we might need to wait to see what comes up with other things before we make a decision on this.
Will discuss more of this later on.
3. Minor tweaks.
Minor tweaks definitely needed! :3
I like all the proposed tweaks, and especially the tag tweaks ya did. ^_^ Mutual idea feeding, ne~?
4. Racial bonuses!
LOVE the Racial Bonuses ideas~. Like I said in my last post~.
5. Change to the rolling system
I second Brain's rolling ideas. The only problem I see is when a person more powerful fights a person less powerful; what would happen then?
Zat might be solved by what Feline suggested!
6. The way the system is explained!
Really need this. XD
It's a good start whatcha have, but.... yeah. I think we should run our stuff by a non-gamer before we post it, say... actually, I don't know anyone here besides me, and this isn't good for me to do 'cause I'm one of the team. >_>
7. New magic pools (and the Class System idea)
Personally, I like the idea of doing a class system the most out of any of the ideas.
It'd take a regrouping of the skills, partially, but the SubPaths could essentially become Classes under a Path. The Paths would essentially become categories.
And I'd still suggest the Support Path...
How's that sound for now?
*currently in food coma after brunch*
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:33 pm
((holy crap, its long))Seems to me like the first order of business is completely revamping the skill organizations, am I right? 1. Path limitations.yes, though it would probably need to be decided after the rolling system and overall skill structure are decided 2. Inter-path limitations.again, yes. I think a class-based system would work well. again, the major problem always seems to be the balancing of 1-'older' players need something to do and 2-'younger' players being able to get skills fast enough that they don't spend a month being defenseless perhaps a 'first' class or skill tree that a character gets no penalty for using, a 'second' tree that they aren't penalized for but they can't learn as many skills as they did in their 'first' one, and 'other' trees that they take 'learning penalties' (tree 2) and 'use penalties' (roll reductions or a more elegant solution) 3. Minor tweaks.I guess we'll deal with these when we finalize any major system changes. Perhaps a 'Test RP' should be made where characters are given a set of experimental skills and rules that they can mess around with. If we see a problem in the test RP, we should then be able to fix it 4. Racial bonuses!I want to say yes because it makes perfect sense to do it, but I'm leaning towards no. This is because some races are just ridiculously overpowered, and the only way to balance that would be to tack on equally ridiculous downsides. My first and -for the time- only example is the drow. In the books I've read, drow are naturally superior to pretty much everything. their only real downside is the whole sun thing, but that isn't much of a problem in a large building (like a basement or non-window room) besides, the sun is only out for about half of the day, meaning, at the very least, a drow character is only limited for half the day [edit] or maybe all characters are human by default, and any special races need to be approved by the mods? 5. Change to the rolling systemYes. definitely a system where type of roll is determined by skill, power, or rank of some sort. Also, what if an anti-spamming rule was 'Intermediate skills: After using an intermediate skill, you cannot use that same skill on your next turn. Advanced skills: After using an advanced-level skill, you must wait 2/3 turns before you can use that skill again. during the in-between period, you may use any skill but those forbidden by the above limitations' 6. The way the system is explained!I probably can't help with this, I'm an overcomplicating-things gamer and you all probably know that 7. New magic poolsDefinitely. We're probably going to need to organize the types somehow. An example would be that water magic would include ice magic and a few storm-like spells my thoughts on the class idea right now are: ideas? We need an 'essentials' group of skills that everyone and anyone can learn. This would include such things as basic fighting (ordinary 'I hit you' skills) , support (first aid), and possibly intellectual (pre-magic) abilities. Among others of course,
After that, a character could specialise into one of those. If they chose to fight, they could begin learning 'run-of-the-mill soldier'-type moves. They would also get basic training in every type of weapon. do something similar with every class type, then go to:
Specialized types: where a character chooses a certain weapon/spelltype/medicinal type to perfect. This would be like when a character goes from trainee-type class to archer, lancer, thief (knives) and similar classes. For the other trees, it would be type of magic (elements are the only thing i can think of at the moment) or type of support (enemy debuff, ally buff, wide-area battle healing, focused specialilzed healing, etc.)
In-between 'extremely skilled' group here? where a character is amazing in one area of study, but not yet a world-renowned superpower
after that, the character could get into 'perfect' classes. This would be the ultimate peak of the class that everyone aspires to. For examples, think of the best [thing goes here] user in a particular story, such as Drizzt and swordsmanship, Archsage Athos from fire emblem, and similar characters from any games/stories you've ever seen.
As for the last skill level, this would probably be the level at which characters can begin making skills as for what happens after a class is completely mastered...I'm not sure. I'm sorta torn between a leveling-up system or letting the character begin another skill and limiting what they can choose. As for the 'stronger when leveled up,' I agree with the fact that we need one. We'll need to triple-check the specifics to make sure it feels somewhat natural to use...otherwise people might start grumbling, and then we might have to redo it Also, what should the alternate communication be, I can do email right now and IM if/when I find one to use
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:20 am
I had an idea while talking with Bapp. What if a character had a set number of points, say...4, that would eventually increase as the character gets more skilled. to use skills, they would sacrifice some points. Any number/combination of skills could be used, so long as the total 'cost' didn't exceed the character's limit. Right now, I'm torn between the ideas of 1- giving each character a smaller, constant limit that the character's points are returned to on each new turn. and 2- giving each character a set number of points when they enter battle, with small amounts being regained with every turn (1 or 2 perhaps) This -might- help make beginner's skills more useful because they can be chained. this would likely allow for immense amounts of creativity with a character. Skill Points system? Lets say this character, Bob, would like to injure other character, Fred. Bob could always use a simple attack like Fatal Blow to stun Fred (see the Arena for details on how that ended) but that would be too spammy, something that we will likely implement a restriction on. Bob shall have 3 skill points Bob, then, doesn't want to use Fatal Blow (cost 3, for example) but still wants to incapacitate Fred. Bob could decide to Travel (cost 2 lets say) to behind Fred and then make a Strike (1) to accomplish roughly the same effect. Obviously, there will be a bonus to Bob because he's attacking Fred from behind, a very vulnerable area. What/how this bonus will be determined, I'm not entirely sure. hopefully you guys have an idea. Its major downfall, that I can see, is that Spellcasting and Spiritualism characters will have greater flexibility with this. this is assuming, of course, that it were to be implemented in the RP system as it is now. we might need to expand Combat skills a lot to make up for this deficit (specialized types of strikes perhaps?) ...well, wasn't it implied to throw any ideas out here for nitpicking?
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:51 am
lol it seems like Bapp is trying to use mabo to weasel his way in...
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:57 am
I can see problems with this. 1. Inflexibility - techncially it could be less flexible than using one skill at a time, because what happens if you run out of points? I can see where you're coming from, but this is exactly the kind of system that has proved unpopular in polls. While I like the limiting factor, it seems this isn't the way to go about it. 2. Tedious addition and subtraction and opportunities for things to go wrong, see above 3. What happens when you're an advanced character and you can just blast out like 10 moves per turn? It doesn't make sense. Roleplay is too slow paced for that. 4. I like what you said about advantages and disadvantages depending on where they attack from, but really this should be down to the roleplayers to see for themselves. Perhaps this could tie in to roleplayers being given rewards for good performance, so people are encouraged to be as realistic as possible?
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:03 pm
Mabo's idea on classes:
I dunno, once again I'm trying to avoid things being too linear - I tried this the first time and failed miserably. So if possible I think we should steer away from this level ---> this level ----> this level, in terms of character advancement not the skills themselves
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:19 pm
@ panda: nah, the idea was all mine. It came about when Bapp mentioned 'obsolete skills' ...besides, any source of ideas is potential for system improvement (yes, I know he probably wants in, no I'm not going to be the conduit of the infiltration)
@ lorika: oh well, i didn't expect it to be perfect. At least it's an idea.
I still stand by the 'Everyone can learn the basics' idea though
EDIT/addition
Then again, you may have gotten yourself into a paradox Lorika. you don't want it too linear, but if the system is too non-linear, it will be difficult to make skills for every possibility. It would almost be a better idea to let each person make appropriate skills for their characters.
For that, we'd almost need an 'approval board' to determine wether a given skill is appropriately powered, and it would be a hassle for each person to make most of their skills
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:33 pm
panda was joking 03o XDD i do make my jokes seem serious don't I?
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:19 pm
yes...you do
*cowers*
I also had a thought about the whole non-linear thing and came up with a great ol' metaphor...but it will probably be confusing
*returns to brainstorming*
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:26 pm
1. Path limitations. Definitely need to occur, but I think that we can do this through class restrictions. One thing to think on is that it takes a month or more to fully level up a path. So the only people who are potentially going to get overpowered characters are one’s who are dedicated enough to keep training through that whole time. It could take over a year to fully master spell casting. If someone is that diligent, they deserve some sort of reward. Just a thought that was running through my head. Personally I think that it is too much for most people to memorize every single ability and that they will find themselves limiting what they learn and use based on what ones the remember and have the patience to learn. So in a sence they will create their own path limitations. 2. Inter-path limitations. I like the sound of this. That way someone can’t eventually be the combatspellcastingspiritualism juggernaut. I CAN HAS ULTIMATE POWRERZ!!!! I think that a person should be able to if not fully master their field, at least get close to it and then if they want a little bit of another field they can maybe master one path. Or with spiritualism maybe a limited number of chosen abilities. Again class systems might be the most efficient way to do this. Lorika Perhaps... upon character creation we could implement a DIFFERENT kind of Path, which is more title than anything, or perhaps stacks on top of the current skill system... more like classes in a traditional rpg. Let's take from Cressa - Sorceress. Her class could be capable of a certain number of skills per level from any spellcasting field and any combat field. Now let's say... I don't know, Summoner. These are capable of the skills from both Aeromancy and Hydromancy along with SPECIAL skills restricted to their class which expand on the summoning and spiritual nature of the class itself. Similarly people who would wish to specialise in a class called Hydromancer would have access to a variety of water-based spells limited to that class. The fields - Combat, Spiritualism and Spellcasting - would still be the base for this new system, but their nature would change to reflect more of their nature as "skill pools" - pools where skills are found, and of course we're going to be expanding the number of skills available - as opposed to, perhaps, things that you work through in the current linear way... maybe. Obviously these suggestions imply huge revisions and a lot of work... I really like the basis of what you’ve outlined here…it is going to take a lot of work and thought, but I think that it would clear up a lot of the problems with people becoming overpowered. 3. Minor tweaks. Lorika already hit on the fact that abilities need to be explained better. I also wanted to add in with the ones she added is that how abilities that rely on other abilities work. Like with Deluge and the abilities that stem off of it. Can you cast Deluge and Shield of Water in the same post? If you do cast Deluge, how long does it last? If you can’t cast Deluge in the same post as Shield of Water then will you ever use Shield of Water since casting Deluge basically leaves you open for attack and does no harm to your opponent. 4. Racial bonuses! I personally am against this, because it would complicate what were are already trying to make more user friendly. There is also the danger of making the human race the least useful race to want to have. It always seems to turn out that way when ever racial bonuses are given in rp’s. We also run into the problem of people making their own races. For example Feline is a felinid, but she is also a winged felinid that is from another dimension. Typical felenid bonuses wouldn’t apply to her the same way as a land bound felinid. Say someone creates a reptilian character….then we have to figure out the ins and out of that… I just personally think that it will turn into more trouble and confusion than its worth. Especially since we are all kind of already writing in these special characteristics into our characters. 5. Change to the rolling system I already touched on this one in the last post. Basically we need to make it so the higher up abilities area able to be potentially more powerful that lower abilities in combat. With the bonuses that abilities give it may be a good thing to start beginner moves at 1-8 rather than 1-6 and then go up from there each time a level is gained. 6. The way the system is explained! I think we are all in agreement on this. The explanation will have to wait till we’ve overhauled everything. 7. New magic pools We could definitely look into it. Fire and earth would be good ones to add. I just hesitate to add too many new spell casting pats to keep spell casters from getting too powerful, but then again, it takes so long to go through a path that it would only be someone who was dedicated who would achieve that and I say kudos to them. I honestly don’t know how often we will actually be fighting each other, so it would only be bad guys that would get hit.
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:45 pm
likes Lorika's form of a class system (that he forgot to fully read/understand gonk ) A problem I can see would be the requirement to choose a class for your character when they are first made. We would likely need a way for classes to change over time...
What if all character's start out as a simple class, say, 'BOOdist'. Then, when their character meets some 'know these skills' requirements, they can become such classes as 'recruit' or 'acolyte'. after that, their class will continue to change and alter as they choose which skills to learn.
With certain classes, the character might be able to branch directly into a skillset from a completely different tree, because certain things just go together, like a druid/sage with simple staff-fighting abilities, or a ninja with basic illusion skill
...of course, these 'combo-tree classes' wouldn't be able to learn as many skills as one who learned them because that was their skill tree
...well, sounds like rolling systems take first priority, right?
is the following true or false? (for my brainstorming process...right now, I'm assuming that all of the following are true)
1- the 4-sided dice is off limits
2- we would like to avoid use of the 6-sided dice, but it might be needed anyway
3- the 100-sided dice will likely be used only for extremely special skills, if at all
4- rolling more than one dice per turn IS NOT a possibility
exclaim thought
what about using the random number generator? after all, Gaia's dice only have so many sides
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:14 pm
I was thinking, how about we make just a few basic classes open to everyone, and give the opportunity for exclusive classes based on participation?
*hasnt read anything else yet, too tired*
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