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 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:17 pm
Pyrotechnic Oracle Mcphee Pyrotechnic Oracle "My word is sufficient for you." Thats good enough for me. I've seen an experienced enough in my life to convince me the bible is true and unerring. I understand, however, that that dosn't work for "them"
I've never EVER mentioned God in any of my debates because, well, I don't believe in God. Anymore.
And even when I did, I was really too young to care about abortion.
Frankly, the Old Testament is harder to get people to swallow.
For me, the real... stuff that I hate is in Leviticus.
That chapter spits all over 'my people'. Tsk, tsk. Okay? SO what? Sorry, but I can see the relevence of what you say in the first half, but not the second. WHat does the Bible denouncing homosexuality is an "abomination of the flesh" (the language most christians use) have to do with the argument?
Hon, just... calm down.
I don't hate Christians, so there's no need to get defensive.
I hate how some people implement the Bible, but hey, I'll just ignore them.
The Bible's perfect. People are not.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:40 pm
I think this thread has gotten way off track, its not suppose to be an argument about God or the Bible, its suppose to be a place where we can help build our arguments and stop ones that are irrelevant or just plain stupid.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:44 pm
karllikespies I think this thread has gotten way off track, its not suppose to be an argument about God or the Bible, its suppose to be a place where we can help build our arguments and stop ones that are irrelevant or just plain stupid.
Let's see... Well, there's the one about how women dying in pregnancy should die because it's "God's plan" to have the baby live, and the woman die.
I've literally heard that one. Kind of a sad one.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:52 pm
Mcphee karllikespies I think this thread has gotten way off track, its not suppose to be an argument about God or the Bible, its suppose to be a place where we can help build our arguments and stop ones that are irrelevant or just plain stupid.
Let's see... Well, there's the one about how women dying in pregnancy should die because it's "God's plan" to have the baby live, and the woman die.
I've literally heard that one. Kind of a sad one.One I myself personly don't agree with. I'm not sure what to feel about this one. If it were part of "God's plan" then God wouldn't have alloud the creation of so many devices and technigues that coudl save the life of both the mother and the child.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:11 pm
Pyrotechnic Oracle Mcphee karllikespies I think this thread has gotten way off track, its not suppose to be an argument about God or the Bible, its suppose to be a place where we can help build our arguments and stop ones that are irrelevant or just plain stupid.
Let's see... Well, there's the one about how women dying in pregnancy should die because it's "God's plan" to have the baby live, and the woman die.
I've literally heard that one. Kind of a sad one.One I myself personly don't agree with. I'm not sure what to feel about this one. If it were part of "God's plan" then God wouldn't have alloud the creation of so many devices and technigues that coudl save the life of both the mother and the child. I don't think God would want everyone that is dying while giving birth to die. People try to come up new thinks, like you said to go everything they can to save both the mother and baby.
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:16 pm
As a corollary to karl's 1st example, the argument that a fetus has a soul. That can't be proven any more than god's existance can be proven, and thus for those of no faith, it has no weight.
Likewise, a day or week-old fetus does not have a brain. It cannot think or feel; I'm not saying that makes it perfectly acceptable to kill, but this is an oft-used stupid argument. Biology is your friend in arguments, so know it--an 8 month-old fetus is not a shapeless blob of cells, and a week-old fetus is not a fully formed baby.
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:42 pm
La Veuve Zin As a corollary to karl's 1st example, the argument that a fetus has a soul. That can't be proven any more than god's existance can be proven, and thus for those of no faith, it has no weight. Likewise, a day or week-old fetus does not have a brain. It cannot think or feel; I'm not saying that makes it perfectly acceptable to kill, but this is an oft-used stupid argument. Biology is your friend in arguments, so know it--an 8 month-old fetus is not a shapeless blob of cells, and a week-old fetus is not a fully formed baby. So true, saying that the fetus has a soul from conception is a matter of belief. Personally I'd think it probably wouldn't have one until near birth, but thats just me. The point is that you can't prove it so it shouldn't be used.
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:22 am
karllikespies La Veuve Zin As a corollary to karl's 1st example, the argument that a fetus has a soul. That can't be proven any more than god's existance can be proven, and thus for those of no faith, it has no weight. Likewise, a day or week-old fetus does not have a brain. It cannot think or feel; I'm not saying that makes it perfectly acceptable to kill, but this is an oft-used stupid argument. Biology is your friend in arguments, so know it--an 8 month-old fetus is not a shapeless blob of cells, and a week-old fetus is not a fully formed baby. So true, saying that the fetus has a soul from conception is a matter of belief. Personally I'd think it probably wouldn't have one until near birth, but thats just me. The point is that you can't prove it so it shouldn't be used. More like in later devolpment, not nesscerly near birth but that is one thing will never know. All we do know that it is a human and a fetus is more then just cells or blobs. I think alot of people seem to confuse them with zygote cause those are just cells. then they turn to blasto-whatever (can never remember the name),embryos which are just starting to take shape then a fetus. and a fetus is anywhere from eight weeks until up to birth so people need to be abit more clear at times.
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:47 am
The bible never says that you cannot 'abort a child'
the bible says that you however cannot deny a person their right to live from their beginnings i.e. kill them without their say in it
=( This thread is really off track guys...
Anyway, I think the more or less stupid arguments we make is
"Its a child not a choice!"
A lot of people like to respond to that with "its a fetus not a child"
Well duh its a fetus, but if I've read correctly then 50 or so babies are left alive after botched abortions each year... Personally, I know for a fact that I cannot stand for these third trimester abortions. They should never have been legalized in the first place. Its almost like a woman in labor giving birth and taking some knife and stabbing her child...oh geez...I'm having ADD today and I can't think of anymore arguments. sorry sad
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:41 am
Yeah....third trimester abortions are the most detestable...
A group of girls in one of my classes had to give a presentation on the abortion debate and they had to present a united front on it. But they had very differing views. One was against it in almost all scenarios, one allowed exceptions for rape, one was much more openly pro-choice...but they all agreed that third trimester abortions were not a good thing. If they had waited that long, they may as well finish because at this point it is getting more and more possible for the baby to live outside the womb.
They ended up doing their project on partial-birth abortion because believeing it to be wrong was probably the one thing they all agreed on.
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:34 pm
Seleana The bible never says that you cannot 'abort a child' the bible says that you however cannot deny a person their right to live from their beginnings i.e. kill them without their say in it =( This thread is really off track guys... Anyway, I think the more or less stupid arguments we make is "Its a child not a choice!" A lot of people like to respond to that with "its a fetus not a child" Well duh its a fetus, but if I've read correctly then 50 or so babies are left alive after botched abortions each year... Personally, I know for a fact that I cannot stand for these third trimester abortions. They should never have been legalized in the first place. Its almost like a woman in labor giving birth and taking some knife and stabbing her child...oh geez...I'm having ADD today and I can't think of anymore arguments. sorry sad Aborting a child is denying a person the right to live. They have no say, they can't even think for themself or talk yet. Even after their born they can't talk or say they want to live or die. Partial abortions, you have Clintin to take for that. Nobody can say that they can feel no pain cause it's obviously at that point they can.
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:43 pm
I got a PM from a pro-choicer wanting to add an argument to this.
A reminder to all, third trimester abortions are NOT legal in most areas. Don't argue a point based on this. I have seen several people use this, in particular one poem talking about the killing of a third trimester baby.
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:02 pm
If its legal in some places, then its worth arguing over.
And personly, I feel that the soul exists long before conception, but it not placed in the body untill conception. Why at conception, because, by all biologicle principles, thats when a human first comes to be.
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:32 pm
karllikespies I got a PM from a pro-choicer wanting to add an argument to this. A reminder to all, third trimester abortions are NOT legal in most areas. Don't argue a point based on this. I have seen several people use this, in particular one poem talking about the killing of a third trimester baby. Some people have done it and some what it legal until their born. That's how messed up humanity is, they want to kill to limit population yet nobody is starving cause there isn't enough food, theres plenty. They'er starving cause their goverment don't care to help them and nobody bothers givng them food. It has to do with government and money issues not resorce issues.
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:46 pm
sachiko_sohma karllikespies I got a PM from a pro-choicer wanting to add an argument to this. A reminder to all, third trimester abortions are NOT legal in most areas. Don't argue a point based on this. I have seen several people use this, in particular one poem talking about the killing of a third trimester baby. Some people have done it and some what it legal until their born. That's how messed up humanity is, they want to kill to limit population yet nobody is starving cause there isn't enough food, theres plenty. They'er starving cause their goverment don't care to help them and nobody bothers givng them food. It has to do with government and money issues not resorce issues. It also has a bit to do with riligion. Many people in India are vegan. They starve because they dopn't want to eat meat, a food that is abundant there, because they beilive these animals are the reincarnations of family, freinds, and other people. I have a huge problem with all of that...my opinoin though
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