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Heaven, Reincarnation, and Life After Death Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2

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Life after death?
  Some variety of reincarnation
  Reincarnation, but with the hope of someday going to an otherworld
  Immediately going to the afterlife
  There is no life after death
  Other
  I'm not entirely sure
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Indigo Guardian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:20 am



razz Well I am a spiritualist and I believe that when we die, we go straight to the afterlife not in the traditional 'heaven' 'hell' or 'other world', but that we remain with the ones we love. I believe that our spirit is simply released from our material body and becomes a free roaming consciousness, totally unrestrained. I also believe in Angels, although again not in the traditional sense. I think of 'Angels' as mature spirits who's sole aim is to help people, and that this way of life is chosen by spirits just like a person may choose to be a doctor or vet when they grow up!

Maybe we do undergo reincarnation after death, but I think that this would be a matter of choice rather than being forced to come back as something else.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:58 am


xxEternallyBluexx
Hey, I'm just kinda wondering, what would be the force behind people being reincarnated?


Not that this is what all Pagans think, but it could be that after death souls are directed by the gods into their new bodies, much like how in some Christian theology God directs people's souls into Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory. Of course, not all versions reincarnation are god/higher power driven, so I'm not entirely sure about other schools of belief on reincarnation.

Julri


CalledTheRaven

Dapper Lunatic

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:00 am


Here are some thoughts on the matter from a Heathen blogger called Hrafnkell. This is pretty much how I see things but he's says it better so I thought I'd post it here.

Quote:
I’m not afraid of dying. Even before I became a polytheist I liked what Socrates had to say about it. He provided an example for us all in his Phaedo, when he told his friends that there was nothing to fear:

Quote:
Either death is a state of nothingness and utter unconsciousness, or, as men say, there is a change and migration of the soul from this world to another. Now if you suppose that there is no consciousness, but a sleep like the sleep of him who is undisturbed even by the sight of dreams, death will be an unspeakable gain. . . . Now if death is like this, I say that to die is gain; for eternity is then only a single night. But if death is a journey to another place, and there, as men say, all the dead are, what good, O my friends and judges, can be greater than this?


My Heathen ancestors had a great many conceptions of death, and to what road it led: to the halls of our ancestors, to Hel (nothing like Christian hell but just a place you go when you die), to Valhöll if Odin chooses you. Skjöldunga Saga speaks of “going to King Odin” and “the underworld,” and there is some sense of going “into the mountains” to join your ancestors. There is also a limited appeal to reincarnation, as Ellis-Davidson puts it, “belief in the birth of the souls of dead ancestors into the living world again, in the persons of their descendants.”[1] And of course, there are the dísir, who are female ancestors who have stayed behind to help the household.

Who knows? It is difficult to know what to make of all the various ideas surrounding death. Islamic traveler Ibn Fahdlan, when watching a Varangian funeral, spoke of “paradise” which was the best he could interpret the Norse word as he was made to understand it. But anything that smacks of paradise cannot be bad.

Outside of the claim to Valhöll (a claim no mortal can make) the poem heard by Ibn Fahdlan at the chieftain’s funeral, and re-rendered by Michael Crichton in the 13th Warrior, captures the essence of Heathen ideas of death:

Quote:
Lo, there do I see my father.
Lo, there do I see my mother.
And my sisters and my brothers
Lo, there do I see the line of my people
Back to the beginning.
Lo, they do call to me.
They bid me take my place among them
In the halls of Valhalla
Where the brave may live forever.


My ancestors did not live their lives towards an afterlife, or for a hope in some afterlife, though ideas of joining their ancestors shows that they expected them to be there already, waiting for them. They lived their lives as part of a continuum, inheritors but also progenitors, descendants and ancestors to be. And they lived their lives for life, for what mark they made on this world, what they did for their families and communities – and for their gods. And for what name they left behind them. As I quote in every email I send out:

Quote:
Cattle die,
kinsmen die,
oneself dies likewise,
but good renown
will never die
for him who earns it.

- Hávamál, 76


I think this is true. And who does not want to be well thought of when they are gone? Who would choose ill-renown over good? We all want to have had a good impact on those whom we love and care for. We want that “son of” or “daughter of” to mean something.

So how have I done? Too soon to tell. As another Norse proverb tells us, “Praise not the day until evening has come, a woman until she is burnt, a sword until it is tried, a maiden until she is married, ice until it has been crossed, beer until it has been drunk.”

And I think that is as it should be. We should not be judged on our accomplishments until we are done with the opportunity to affect change – that is, when we are dead. I hope that when the day comes that I have shaped my final fate that I will have done some praiseworthy deeds. That is what we should all hope for.

Followers of the White Christ hope for some form of eternal salvation, a nebulous form of afterlife in which they will enjoy the fruits of their devotion to their god. I find there is a disconnect between “up there” and “down here.” But our gods, like us, are of this world; there is a connection that is very real between we mortals and the Otherworld.

It is only fitting that as I have lived “down here” that I be judged “down here” and by the people I have lived among, whose lives I have in some way impacted and whose lives have impacted me. I hope that my deeds will have been found worthy of my ancestors, that the good will have outweighed the bad, wisdom foolishness, and piety impiety. I would very much – like Theoden King in Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings – to go before my ancestors unashamed, just as I have hoped to live my life unashamed.

We all make mistakes. We all make decisions we are not proud of; say and do things we regret later, or fail to say or do things we feel we should have said or done. We don’t have to apologize to our gods for those oversights. Instead, we redeem ourselves here. It is redemption – not salvation – that is meaningful.

But in the end, as each of us shapes our own fate, we have nothing to complain about. Our decisions, our actions, have brought us to where we are now. If sometimes genetics jumps in with a “surprise!” then there is still no reason for complaint, no reason to rail against gods or fate.

So in the end, my concern is where it should be, not with some nebulous and unknowable afterlife or paradise but with the world I leave behind, the world I belonged to, and whether or not I’ve done enough to have made it a better place.

The gods will know, but they will not judge. That will be left to my fellow mortals here on the little island in space we call Midguard.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:59 pm


I really don't have any personal gnosis on the matter. I really like the idea of reincarnation, but in my theology, I can't find a requirement for it, as much as it would mesh with everything else.

aoijea23487


Ravenblackthorn Goblin

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:30 am


I believe in reicarnation, Karma, I guess when we have learned what needs to be learned in our many lifetimes we can finally rest in whatever it is we rest in. Heaven, The Otherworld, the land of youth whatever. Maybe what you believe is where you go I dont really know. I guess thats the fun in it-the Eternal Mystery!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:55 am


Actually, I quite like the idea of there being nothing after death. You just... die, and dissapear, and never return. Gone. Then you never have to worry about anything ever again...
But in saying that, it does scare me a little, thinking that this is "it". I would like some sort of Heaven, but really, I don't have a clue what lies beyond. My faith died, and I don't know what there is.

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