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 Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:32 am
Shadowlit Facade Dark_Mana Digital Malevolence Are teen pregnancies not common in Finland? What does the "God Squad" have to do with getting teen girls pregnant? Or were we talking about not giving a free pass for their irresponsibility? I mean, it's not like I oppose birth control or anything, but if you're gonna screw and you're too dumb to use a condom, at least take a morning after pill or something. Don't wait until you have a baby in there and then blame Christians for your problems. I don't want to be a jerk here, but that's pretty asinine.
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:38 pm
Volvy Shadowlit Facade Dark_Mana Digital Malevolence Are teen pregnancies not common in Finland? What does the "God Squad" have to do with getting teen girls pregnant? Or were we talking about not giving a free pass for their irresponsibility? I mean, it's not like I oppose birth control or anything, but if you're gonna screw and you're too dumb to use a condom, at least take a morning after pill or something. Don't wait until you have a baby in there and then blame Christians for your problems. I don't want to be a jerk here, but that's pretty asinine. I think maybe he might have also meant the Christian opposition to teaching safer sex practices in schools. But yeah, mostly barring of abortion rights. And... ehhhh... I'm actually fine with the idea of people like that not passing on their genes yet, if at all. Also, at least you're taking a somewhat more pragmatic approach to it, whereas many Christians ardently deny abortion rights under any circumstances, including rape victims. neutral
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:26 pm
Rotting Gnarl Volvy Shadowlit Facade Dark_Mana Digital Malevolence Are teen pregnancies not common in Finland? What does the "God Squad" have to do with getting teen girls pregnant? Or were we talking about not giving a free pass for their irresponsibility? I mean, it's not like I oppose birth control or anything, but if you're gonna screw and you're too dumb to use a condom, at least take a morning after pill or something. Don't wait until you have a baby in there and then blame Christians for your problems. I don't want to be a jerk here, but that's pretty asinine. I think maybe he might have also meant the Christian opposition to teaching safer sex practices in schools. But yeah, mostly barring of abortion rights. And... ehhhh... I'm actually fine with the idea of people like that not passing on their genes yet, if at all. Also, at least you're taking a somewhat more pragmatic approach to it, whereas many Christians ardently deny abortion rights under any circumstances, including rape victims. neutral Well to be honest I can't say that I APPROVE per se of abortion under any circumstances, but in some cases (rape for instance) I can at least understand it. Ultimately, though, I don't really give a crap what other people do, it's their life, not mine. I just hate when people want to blame all their problems on somebody else instead of owning up to their mistakes. Sometimes I think if all I ever said was "You deserve it", "You're right", and "It's not your fault" I'd be the most popular guy on earth. It seems those are the only things anybody wants to hear anyway. As for the Christian activists thing; Well, I'm Christian so I tend to get a bit defensive about blanket statements with regard to my faith. But believe me when I say I know EXACTLY the kind of people you're talking about, and that they piss me off too.
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:02 am
I am sorry if my glib remark offended you, Volvy. I really ought to take care to qualify statements such as these. That said, however...
It's certainly true that some percentage of people will do stupid things regardless of what you do or don't tell them. That's just the law of averages; there's always going to be some deviation from the norm. But, as Gnarl mentioned, my beef is when personal beliefs start intruding into public policy and causing harmful effects. Dogmatic promotion of abstinence-only sex education (or opposition to having any at all) has real, harmful consequences--just look at what the Catholic Church's campaign against contraception has wrought in Africa. Similarly, I find a similar campaign of misinformation and puritanical bullying unacceptable here in the States.
As for the abortion thing, you'd be hard-pressed to deny that pro-life movements include a heavy religious component. I'm not willing to open that can of worms here, but it probably wouldn't be hard for you to guess at my thoughts on this. I'll just say that I find the notion that a zygote which lacks so much as a rudimentary nervous system possesses a "soul" patently absurd, and that babies born to teenage mothers overwhelmingly constitute a burden on the mother, the family, and society (not to mention are more likely to suffer birth defects and premature birth).
Once more, allow me to qualify what I mean by "God Squad." I mean fundies. Insane, theocratic loons who presume to push their beliefs on others through intimidation, threats, political pressure, and/or violence. This militant arm exists in any religion, so don't interpret me as singling out Christianity for rebuke. You already expressed your own dislike for this sort of people, so there's some common ground.
Anyways, hopefully this mea culpa of mine helped clarify my meaning. I meant no affront to sane adherents of Christianity, such as yourself.
@Gnarl: Kind of a left-field question, but have you ever read Aldous Huxley's book Island? I'm almost certain you would enjoy it.
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:40 am
Shadowlit Facade I am sorry if my glib remark offended you, Volvy. I really ought to take care to qualify statements such as these. That said, however...
It's certainly true that some percentage of people will do stupid things regardless of what you do or don't tell them. That's just the law of averages; there's always going to be some deviation from the norm. But, as Gnarl mentioned, my beef is when personal beliefs start intruding into public policy and causing harmful effects. Dogmatic promotion of abstinence-only sex education (or opposition to having any at all) has real, harmful consequences--just look at what the Catholic Church's campaign against contraception has wrought in Africa. Similarly, I find a similar campaign of misinformation and puritanical bullying unacceptable here in the States.
As for the abortion thing, you'd be hard-pressed to deny that pro-life movements include a heavy religious component. I'm not willing to open that can of worms here, but it probably wouldn't be hard for you to guess at my thoughts on this. I'll just say that I find the notion that a zygote which lacks so much as a rudimentary nervous system possesses a "soul" patently absurd, and that babies born to teenage mothers overwhelmingly constitute a burden on the mother, the family, and society (not to mention are more likely to suffer birth defects and premature birth).
Once more, allow me to qualify what I mean by "God Squad." I mean fundies. Insane, theocratic loons who presume to push their beliefs on others through intimidation, threats, political pressure, and/or violence. This militant arm exists in any religion, so don't interpret me as singling out Christianity for rebuke. You already expressed your own dislike for this sort of people, so there's some common ground.
Anyways, hopefully this mea culpa of mine helped clarify my meaning. I meant no affront to sane adherents of Christianity, such as yourself.
@Gnarl: Kind of a left-field question, but have you ever read Aldous Huxley's book Island? I'm almost certain you would enjoy it. I have not, but now I shall. I just haven't had much time for reading lately. Still gotta get through Dalton Trumbo's Johnny Got His Gun before I add yet more books to my "to read" list. It's quite long already. But since you just now made that recommendation, it goes very close to the top. wink
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:37 am
I may just check that out too. I loved Brave New World, but I've never read any of his other books.
I thank you for the clarification. I try not to get my panties in a wad over every little remark, but as I said it's always a bit annoying to feel you are getting lumped in because of an artificial similarity. Anyhow, no worries. I have no more interest than you do in a political argument.
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