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I agree. Every culture does have its share of persecution. Like I said I am glad that you hold the view of tolerance. And maybe I wasn't paying close attention, but are you religious?

I see. Well, that is cool. I consider myself an open-minded atheist. I can hold conversations with Christians and such without going overboard considering that they are a respectful Christian who wants to listen to my questions and complaints in the first place...

As long as no one is forcing an opinion down my throat...I have no objections in listening to what you have to say, but I will disagree if I find something that bothers me. Like with you, Exile, it seems I can have a civil conversation with you, even if we were in a heated debate like a couple posts before...about the gays. It seems we can have a civilized heated debate without getting stupid and obnoxious like many people seem to do...

I have not read all of this, but I sure as heck p[oint out from what I thought.
From what I read this thread opened up to a lot of religious debate.
And the fact of Christians are forcing down their beleifs.
I can give you the exact reason for doing so.

Christian belief is that if you are "Gay" then you will go to hell because it against god's will and original plan.

They do not force their beliefs because they want you to feel inferior or them to feel they are right.
They are doing it because they believe they are saving you from eternal pain and suffering.
Gay's usually go against a Christian's belief because the religion in itself is against that sort of thing.

I myself have actually had plenty of gay's rag on me for being a christian, even if I said nothing.
The battle goes both ways.
People just take things the wrong way, I can understand how just the presence of Christianity insults them, it's completely anti-gay.
But I can also understand the point of view of a Christian thumping a bible to a gay.

It is of no intention to insult them at all, what so ever.
That was never the intent of a Christian, the intent of them was to help them.
because they believe that the direction gays are going they will have nothing but hell awaiting them.
And in a reaction of this, they want to help them and save them from eternal pain, to allow them to be happy in the after life.

I might be going in circles but I'm sure you guys get my point now.
Christians don't do it because they want to make themselves feel better.
They do this because they want to help someone out of the goodness of their heart.

Ok, I disagree with a lot of what you said but I really appreciate you being respectful and you meaning well. Let me start being specific about what I disagree with. I know you have admitted you did not read all of this thread and I appreciate your honesty. I hope you have at least read my entire first post and my response to you so you have an idea of what it feels like on the other side. I will respond to your first post also, but this one really upset me so I felt I needed to address it first.



So just because someone's intentions are not to be hurtful, it is fine for them to act in hurtful ways that they are aware are hurtful? I say, put some effort in and switch to language that wont offend and cause people a lot of pain.



It's not like they are hearing it now and then like the N word. It is constant, form everyone. That is far too overwhelming to take lightly. By using gay to mean bad it is very clear there is no worse thing to use as the word bad.



Ok so, first of all your stereotyping a bit when you say that the other 15% (which is a scarily low number) of gay individuals "have realized and taken in the fact that they aren't saying to insult gays." Please don't speak for an entire group. You did the same thing with Christians as a whole in your prior post and again when you say that "None of which was meant to insult gays directly." because plenty of people do mean to insult gays directly. The gay bashing is not just using the word gay as bad. Way to frequently direct insults in school are about calling people who are not gay, gay, so that they feel insulted. It is a deep insecurity among many of the straight people who use that slang and that causes them to lash out against it. Anyhow, going back to the 15% of gays who do not try to kill themselves. It doesn't mean that they believe using the word gay as bad is not meant to be insulting, it could be that they have a slightly thicker skin and can tell themselves even though it hurts a lot, other people's opinions don't are foolish and shouldn't be taken seriously, just because they are idiotic.



I'm glad you sympathize. That is a very good first step. But of course there is plenty people can do. People can do what I'm doing and talk about it and try to open people;s minds so they are aware of how much damage hey are doing and how they can put effort in to help the future. think about how terribly women used to be treated and how much progress has been made there. It still isn't perfect, but over time things can change for the better so people are tolerant and peace exits more and more. when you say that " it will always be used in that kind of manner" I disagree with you based on the past. I already spoke about how women are regarded now. African Americans still have a long way to go to be treated right, but compared ot the way it was, things have improved tremendously. Now a days more and more tv shows and such are doing what they can to spread open mindedness about gay people. I feel even though it will be very difficult, a lot of progress can and should be made.



Nothing is impossible in my opinion, and I do hope more gay people grow a tougher skin so they suffer less. However, it seems like you are saying that is the best solution because you want to shift the responsibility to gays dealing with it better. In order for there to be more understanding for African American rights, African Americans don't need to be tougher and the racists continue their hatred. Everyone needs to make effort to improve the situation the best they can. I just think even though you seem very nice and caring that the gay issue is not your problem, so it doesn't concern you all that much. It has not been your experience and it is not your fight, so why should you devote any effort to helping. Because when people turned the other cheek and said it wasn't their fight the holocaust happened. Because people are dying every day because of it. Because your a human and so are gays.

@Patience.

To your first reponse, no. I'm not saying it's okay to do it, I'm saying that because it's used so frequently and openly everywhere that it so easily becomes a part of ones vocabulary and most of the time don't realize or know they are doing such a harmful thing even though they do it blindly and unconsciously. And if they know it's hurtful, growing up around it and then trying to change later on in life after it's become an attached language is extremely difficult and most people either won't care or are too lazy. Growing up in Germany you learn German like it's the back of your hand. And then going to class after you've grown so attached to the German language, you start to learn English, and it's extremely difficult for you to even say half the words. It's pretty much the same thing.

Second response. Yes, they will hear it on a daily basis from everyone. I did not mean to compare the N word with Gay, I was only responding to how you responded with it about blacks. The gay word is one of the most over used words to degrade something, and most of the time people don't know they are hurting someone. Sure you can go around and tell people on by one, but I can tell you now that more then half of the people will realize it, say they are sorry and carry on with it. Or just flat out won't care. It's hard to think about it but as the human race stands that would most likely be their response.

Third response. My apologies if I offended you but as you stated, they either have a tougher skin or actually did realize that, which still gets my point through, those gays have taken in certain facts about the whole thing. And most of the time if not all. Christians can seem insulting, but how can you know their true intentions without knowing exactly what they are thinking. And yes, people will take being called gay as an insult if they aren't because it's not what they are. If a girl was called manly, she would be insulted, if a man was called a girl, he would be insulted. If someone smart was called stupid, he would be insulted. Unless you are saying something that they are better then what they really are. Most people will take it as an insult.

Forth response. I do agree with you things can change for the better. But because everyone is different and shares different views. Will always be that person or group of people who will willing express their hate for thing. Racism will always be there because people will always have a hate for something. The hate for gays will always be there because there will always be that someone who dislikes what they do. It can't be stopped, someone, somewhere, will always be there to shoot it down.

Fifth response. Don't take my words the wrong way. I not once said I was never going to do anything or would completely disregard it, I merely stated that as it stands that is most likely the ideal to happen first. As I said above, someone will always hate, no matter what, because people share different views. I would be more then happy to help the gay community, I have nothing against them. I'm actually for their rights even if I'm a christian. My reasoning behind this is because god gave us a free will to do as we please, because of this I see no point in trying to change someone after they made up their mind. it's just going to a battle back and forth, if the gays wish to be gay, then let them be gay. I know that what I say can't change what they love. But I can say that people yes are dying everyday because of it. But here is a stand point in which I see this. People are dying from many other things, one of the biggest things ever. Is war. The hate for gays is a war in itself. To make people stop insulting gays is to make the world stop insulting each other. It can be improved, but it can't be stopped.

@Santin.
Actually it's not. I did not mean it in that kind of way. I meant it as, they aren't doing because they wanna go "Haha I'm right your wrong. Stupid"
They are doing it because they want to help.

Second. Yes some gays are Christian, thats why I said "Usually" I did not say all of them do.