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Hect

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:27 pm


The world is perfect to me, too. It has to be.

I was just arguing the point that it's impossible for it to be anything more than what it is due to inherent human qualities (that are essentially unchangeable).
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:37 am


Don't try to patronise me. Just because my opinion is different to yours doesn't mean I pulled it out of my arse.

First off, I have to say that wars rooted in religion or 'love of one's country' have very little to do with love. Religious wars are caused by arrogance and the certainty of being right (lmao context much?), or else the desire to be in the right, to win one's place in heaven - or to follow one's peers. Religion often serves, socially, more as a way to define who is 'in' and who is 'out', to give people a reason to band together. As for war over one's country, that's not love: it's territorial. Simple as.

To argue that love causes hate seems pretty one-dimensional to me. You oversimplify human emotions: on the first count, by treating all feelings of love as the same, on the second, by assuming all react negatively to this generic emotion that you've created. Would you say that affection creates the sort of anxiety that results in hate crime?

To be honest, what I have the hardest time understanding is why on earth your perfect society is completely free of emotion. The idea is not to turn humanity into peaceful, non-violent robots, but to have them working well together, to the point of mutual gain. You wouldn't argue that the ideal friendship or relationship was, by nature, devoid of any sort of disagreement - so why the ideal society?

"Nothing exists in a vacuum" just doesn't make a lot of sense in the context in which you used it. And there's more to art than merely 'making statements'.

Apologies on the literal/literary front: I'm used to people being stupid with words like those.

This world is not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination. It's good, yes, but to state that something is perfect merely because it suffices as it is is ridiculous. Yes, obviously, perfection is unattainable. However, improvement, clearly, is not. Compare today's society to that of the 13th century and you will see a thousand ways in which humanity's living conditions have been improved - and perhaps another thousand ways in which they have declined, but I know I'd rather live now than then. Human nature, perhaps, can never be changed, but you can't really argue that human society can't be bettered.

hellosara


record city afterworld

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:58 am


Homophobia was very strong where I lived.
Half of the reason why I dropped out of school was over the
fact that my life was threatened due to my sexuality.

|:

Northeast Connecticut isn't a good place to live at all,
and it basically consists of racist, religious, homophobic assholes.

I live in Washington state now, though..
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:12 am


I think you missed the point on the whole "perfect" idea.

This is our reality, therefore, by nature, it has to be perfect.

It's more of a philosophical idea, but most of them are anyways.

Hect


London Eyes
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:06 am


hellosara
This world is not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination. It's good, yes, but to state that something is perfect merely because it suffices as it is is ridiculous. Yes, obviously, perfection is unattainable. However, improvement, clearly, is not. Compare today's society to that of the 13th century and you will see a thousand ways in which humanity's living conditions have been improved - and perhaps another thousand ways in which they have declined, but I know I'd rather live now than then. Human nature, perhaps, can never be changed, but you can't really argue that human society can't be bettered.


What I meant was that the world is as perfect as it gets at any given moment. The universe is inherently a balanced entity, not in some silly philosophical yin and yang context, but in a scientific action/reaction way. I am a strong believer in determinism and am firmly invested in the idea that things could not be or happen any other way. So, there is my 'perfect world', to clear things up.

Obviously, it's not any reason to stop campaigning against the ills of society, but some kind of comfort when things become unbearable and you realise it couldn't work any other way.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:13 pm


Quarry Eyes
hellosara
This world is not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination. It's good, yes, but to state that something is perfect merely because it suffices as it is is ridiculous. Yes, obviously, perfection is unattainable. However, improvement, clearly, is not. Compare today's society to that of the 13th century and you will see a thousand ways in which humanity's living conditions have been improved - and perhaps another thousand ways in which they have declined, but I know I'd rather live now than then. Human nature, perhaps, can never be changed, but you can't really argue that human society can't be bettered.


What I meant was that the world is as perfect as it gets at any given moment. The universe is inherently a balanced entity, not in some silly philosophical yin and yang context, but in a scientific action/reaction way. I am a strong believer in determinism and am firmly invested in the idea that things could not be or happen any other way. So, there is my 'perfect world', to clear things up.

Obviously, it's not any reason to stop campaigning against the ills of society, but some kind of comfort when things become unbearable and you realise it couldn't work any other way.


Eh, I used to be heavily stuck on determinism. I got over it though when I actually started having, you know, real problems. I can't remember his name, but one philosopher said that all of philosophy can be boiled down to word games and needless information, and that once we get over these massive ideas (that mean essentially nothing, relative to how we interact with others) we can just learn to live our lives and take things as they come.

I really kind of figured that out on my own, and I guess that everyone does one way or another, but it's definitely the way that I choose to live my life. I don't care if everything is predetermined (even though the idea of entropy states that there are possibilities (along with the newer science of quantum mechanics)) because I'm living in this universe subjectively, and that's what makes it important. These are my experiences, my decisions, and it's fine that I am potentially an extremely complex robot.

But yes, as I said earlier: the world is perfect, because it has to be. There is no other way.

Hect


London Eyes
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:32 pm


Hect
Eh, I used to be heavily stuck on determinism. I got over it though when I actually started having, you know, real problems. I can't remember his name, but one philosopher said that all of philosophy can be boiled down to word games and needless information, and that once we get over these massive ideas (that mean essentially nothing, relative to how we interact with others) we can just learn to live our lives and take things as they come.

I really kind of figured that out on my own, and I guess that everyone does one way or another, but it's definitely the way that I choose to live my life. I don't care if everything is predetermined (even though the idea of entropy states that there are possibilities (along with the newer science of quantum mechanics)) because I'm living in this universe subjectively, and that's what makes it important. These are my experiences, my decisions, and it's fine that I am potentially an extremely complex robot.

But yes, as I said earlier: the world is perfect, because it has to be. There is no other way.


Oh, completely, I'm certainly not sitting here thinking about it all day. I certainly don't see it as a philosophy, more as unproven science. I don't really expect it to instill every moment of my life with this 'meaning' everyone seems after. Life is very much like watching a really good film - even if you're aware of most of the techniques and mechanisms, it doesn't cease to be enjoyable because you know how some/all of it works. So I go and contradict myself with metaphor and simile.

I had the quantum mechanics and thermodynamics talk with a mathematician friend of mine. Apart from breaking my mind in half, it gave me some interesting food for thought. I like to think I look at the world through the eyes of a scientist. So, if it can be proven or disproven, that's fine by me and I can adjust my view on the universe accordingly.

Anyway, ladies and gentleman, I give you Lou Reed: It's such a perfect day.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:08 am


I'm not in the least bit homophobic, I don't even have problems making jokes about gay sex as if I were gay with other people who are gay. I don't mind being hit on by gay guys, I just tell them I don't swing that way.

I'm totally 100% accepting of it and believe it's nothing more then a preference of who you have sex with, so it shouldn't be as blown up of a deal as people make it to be.

I myself am not gay in the slightest tiny bit either.

Deathsensation


tiny broken fingers
Vice Captain

Tipsy Sophomore

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:34 pm


Deathsensation
I'm not in the least bit homophobic, I don't even have problems making jokes about gay sex as if I were gay with other people who are gay. I don't mind being hit on by gay guys, I just tell them I don't swing that way.

I'm totally 100% accepting of it and believe it's nothing more then a preference of who you have sex with, so it shouldn't be as blown up of a deal as people make it to be.

I myself am not gay in the slightest tiny bit either.

same.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:09 am


Nobody's 100% gay, or straight.
..I just don't believe that at all.
I think it's human nature to be, or have been curious at least a couple times.

record city afterworld


Deathsensation

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:15 pm


record city afterworld
Nobody's 100% gay, or straight.
..I just don't believe that at all.
I think it's human nature to be, or have been curious at least a couple times.


I don't believe that, I"m pretty much A-sexual unless i'm turned on. Therefore I don't consider myself to be gay in the tiniest bit. I see anything wrong with gay sex, I just don't have any urge to try it. I'm like not "Ugh ******** disgusting, I wouldn't ever touch a c**k because that's gross and gay".

It's more like "Oh, Well that's cool. See i'm just not really going out of my way to have gay sex"
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The Legion Hall. (Just general.)

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