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Which Theory Do You Prefer for Cybertronian Reproduction?
  Spark Sharing
  Assembly Line
  Primus
  Protoforms
  All Spark
  Quintessions
  Lolwut!!?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:30 am


Recca Hino
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Reproduction

I've not good at explaining all that myself.


it's informative, but still, given the lack of retcon with some of that material after Sparks were added into the mix, I think there is some credibility to other theories posted.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:37 am


Wow Autobot Beat that was very detailed. Where did you get these ideas and supporting facts? Because any one of those 3 theory would work and makes sense.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:17 pm


DevilsLight
Wow Autobot Beat that was very detailed. Where did you get these ideas and supporting facts? Because any one of those 3 theory would work and makes sense.

Aah, you're making me blush.
These ideas are actually all random stuff I thought of one day while reading several fanfics. Though I haven't been with Transformers forever (Just since 07 to tell the truth) I read through all the fannon/cannon had to say on it, from the extremely weird (A fanfiction involving interface cables of the human-esque kind) and the more widely accepted (spark merge, etc) to the cannon (which is all over and not very helpful) until in the end, I sat down, took a peice of paper, and wrote down everything I though tmade the most sense and kind of made up that. It was really hard, because I wanted to make sure it could be accepted without clashing too bad with fannon or cannon, and it took a few days, but that's about it.

sweatdrop Yeah, that's about all I did for about a week when I was really bored; come up with the cybertronian version of 'the talk'... I'm glad you think it makes sense though ^.^
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:54 pm


@Autobot Beat: I agree with DevilsLight with the theories you have about Cybertronain reproduction. Impressive too.

And I find it somewhat amusing of how much time you took to come up with the cybertronian version of the talk. No offense really, I just find it a little amusing yet impressive.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:05 pm


Do Transformers have families?

In Beast Wars they mention having relatives and then in other series they say things "he was like a son to me" or "he's sort of a father figure" and sometimes refer to their creator(s).

But do you think they have families? And in what sense?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:29 am


I'm not rly sure about reproduction.
There must be a sensitive subject dealing with reproduction or something???
It's a sensitive subject among some cultures and races...usually.
At one point, some bot out there must have gotten a smack in the face by a female bot because he made a sexual comment. lol.

super sad artist

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:54 pm


Ratrap says Arcee is his great aunt.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:35 am


go to lilformers

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:16 pm


Pumkinn
Do Transformers have families?

In Beast Wars they mention having relatives and then in other series they say things "he was like a son to me" or "he's sort of a father figure" and sometimes refer to their creator(s).

But do you think they have families? And in what sense?


Family may be a concept that they didn't consider until after the first great war, when the Autobots and Humans interacted on a much more.. cooperative scale. You know, sort of like how Jazz or Blaster picked up alot of Earth customs and lingo. Stuff like that.

Just a thought.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:54 pm


Realistically?

I see protoforms (empty shells) recieving a spark from Primus/The Allspark/Vector Sigma.

I like the idea of spark sharing, but it's mostly fanon speculation.

I think spark sharing can happen with any 'gender'. I prefer to think of transformers as genderless, truly autonomous; they just took on whatever voice/appearance suited them and their purposes best... the physical resemblances like 2 eyes, nose, etc was purposefully chosen to be able to better relate and communicate with humans. I think they're much less human looking then they let on and simply chose their human appearances. I very much doubt that robots would be human looking or take on a humanoid form for many other reasons...

There's a solid reason why decepticons are less human looking, simply because they chose not to 'soften up' in order to relate.

I also think family is more of an emotional bond between transformers. I think they can have a nuclear family ("mother", "father", "children") unit, but it's just not common. The upper class probably had the money and resources to pour into a couple of young over the years (think about how old cybertronian can get... raising a child could take hundreds of thousands of years and many expensive upgrades to adult form!) but the majority of cybertronians were sparked as adults on assembly lines. It would be a waste of resources to wait for the children to grow up, get schooling and become mature/useful to society when they could have them immediately intelligent and ready to contribute. They wouldn't age, so the fact they're already so old wouldn't matter at all.

Who knows, though? If a spark is your most basic 'soul', spark merging could be used to pass information and memories through a first person point of view in a totally unprecedented way; to get to the absolute truth if you think someone is lying to you. /cough/starscream/cough/ I think there's a whole multitude of uses outside of just sex... Imagine bearing yourself to someone, entirely and the kind of trust that would imply.

woah.

Random fact for you;;

Sigma is a math term. A 'sigma' is statistical term otherwise known as a standard deviation.

For example: if I were to produce 200,000 cars and I estimate that 35 of my cars were to get damaged on the production line, therefor, 190,965 would be the amount of cars that I would successfully produce.

A low sigma value (35 cars) indicates that the cars tend to be very close to the car I want, the ideal car, undamaged; whereas a high sigma (say... 535 of my cars were damaged) indicates that the cars are very poorly made.

=]

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:04 pm


Steal_this_username
Realistically?

I see protoforms (empty shells) recieving a spark from Primus/The Allspark/Vector Sigma.

I like the idea of spark sharing, but it's mostly fanon speculation.

I think spark sharing can happen with any 'gender'. I prefer to think of transformers as genderless, truly autonomous; they just took on whatever voice/appearance suited them and their purposes best... the physical resemblances like 2 eyes, nose, etc was purposefully chosen to be able to better relate and communicate with humans. I think they're much less human looking then they let on and simply chose their human appearances. I very much doubt that robots would be human looking or take on a humanoid form for many other reasons...

There's a solid reason why decepticons are less human looking, simply because they chose not to 'soften up' in order to relate.

I also think family is more of an emotional bond between transformers. I think they can have a nuclear family ("mother", "father", "children") unit, but it's just not common. The upper class probably had the money and resources to pour into a couple of young over the years (think about how old cybertronian can get... raising a child could take hundreds of thousands of years and many expensive upgrades to adult form!) but the majority of cybertronians were sparked as adults on assembly lines. It would be a waste of resources to wait for the children to grow up, get schooling and become mature/useful to society when they could have them immediately intelligent and ready to contribute. They wouldn't age, so the fact they're already so old wouldn't matter at all.

Who knows, though? If a spark is your most basic 'soul', spark merging could be used to pass information and memories through a first person point of view in a totally unprecedented way; to get to the absolute truth if you think someone is lying to you. /cough/starscream/cough/ I think there's a whole multitude of uses outside of just sex... Imagine bearing yourself to someone, entirely and the kind of trust that would imply.

woah.

Random fact for you;;

Sigma is a math term. A 'sigma' is statistical term otherwise known as a standard deviation.

For example: if I were to produce 200,000 cars and I estimate that 35 of my cars were to get damaged on the production line, therefor, 190,965 would be the amount of cars that I would successfully produce.

A low sigma value (35 cars) indicates that the cars tend to be very close to the car I want, the ideal car, undamaged; whereas a high sigma (say... 535 of my cars were damaged) indicates that the cars are very poorly made.

=]


That would make sense if the transformers didn't allready have bipedal forms with faces and what-not canonically LONG before, timeline-wise, human beings had even emerged from the primordial soup (or the Garden of Eden, whatever you believe). And granted, humans aren't the only bipedal creatures in the galaxy, as they've explored that venue during G1.

Regardless of the reason, the fems do exist as a counterpart to mechs, and it was intoned that their existance was vital to the transformers. *shrug* of course, this was just in G1. To my knowledge, the only universe where the robots have been proven canonically to actually be genderless was in IDW's iteration of Transformers.

And honestly, the IDW Transformers don't seem to have any interest in romance beyond comrades-in-arms. *shrug*

I think the solid reason that Decepticons are less human looking is because they have adopted crueler visages in an attempt to instill fear in the Autobots, and later the humans. This is a tactic that has been utilized before. Yeah, to look less "normal", but more for the case of instilling fear in their foes.

Trypticon is a REALLY good example of this. Built to destroy and scare the crap out of his foes, he's probably the least biped-form decepticon there is.

.... bad image of Tryticon humping a parking garage... *twitch*

Anyway.. That's my feeling on the whole "human form" argument. They were "human form" long before there were even humans. Sooo....

Plus, Look at Vector Prime, one of the original 13. He's pretty human form, even if he IS old.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:05 pm


To prevent quoting pages o'text,

I do understand that they are bipedal looking on their own. I just feel that it's almost... silly. They're like a parody of their weaker human counterparts, they look a like on a more then cosmetic level. They were mentioned to be genderless in movie 'verse, at least in the first one. I don't claim to understand, though. >_>

I mean, I have thought a bit about their anatomy; a spark, their most basic unit of life and sentience, a major pump and filter for energon, a major pump and filter for lubricant, a major pump and filter for coolant, all of which could be used as hydraulics, an intake valve for such energy, a central processing unit, memory files, their circuitry, some nanites to heal wounds and malfunctions.... they have very similar major organs and systems to humans, but they function on different energy sources. And don't age, obviously.

Notice I didn't mention engine? It's because they don't run on internal combustion, just energon. They could use the pumping motion of the pistons to push energon through them, mounted on either side of the engine, but none of the combustion. They're not stupid enough to set energon on fire. They would have something that looked, even pumped pistons like an engine, just not an actual functioning engine, like the ones in cars. I also think all the wires might be a bit of a give away, when it comes to functioning car anatomy. They would have a lot more, no where near the battery, then absolutely necessary in a car...

When I think about it, having a functioning car thats insides looked human and was a transformer is kind of... impossible.

Before someone says "They don't have nanites, it's not cannon!" (I'm sorry if it is cannon, but I just don't know) if they didn't, even a small wound could bleed them to death. I'm sure they could close off the valves to it (they have many and better, almost hyper awareness over their systems, far superior control to what a human would), but it would be practical to have something there to fix it so they woun't lose function of wherever they shut off power to. They would need medical attention even more then humans did and eventually grime would build up in the unmaintained parts and fill with bacteria. D: They're intensely complex, so even the smallest rupture or a gear misalignment would be disasterous without some internal repair and cleaning system.

Painful stuff.

...trypticon doing wat now??
.///.

WHYYYYYYYY.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:54 pm


Well, silly or not, they're still bipedal and for the most part human-resembling. Or should we say that we resemble them? Hmm... Too much quasi-religious arguments to be had on that. Do not bring religion into Transformers. D: Unless it has something to do with Primus.

Nanites would explain some of their self-repair, but I think it more likely that parts inside of their bodies can re-arrange, reconnect, or bypass as necessary, to prevent fatal loss of necessary fluids. I'll be honest, I have not ever heard of transformers really have organ systems that resemble our own. However, this brings a disturbing idea of a lung in the glove compartment to mind.

Obviously they will need systems to process energon, or in lieu of Energon, substances that can still fuel their bodies (this varies from universe to universe. I have seen G1 consuming gasoline, as I have seen TFA consuming Oil. Lawls Constructicons and mecha-buttcrackz.). Though I don't know if I could really classify these as "organs". However, let's say for the sake of argument that such things are "systems". Being robots, they will not require as many systmems as an organic has organs, obviously. Energy consumption/processing, internal repairs, spark chamber and laser core, back-up memory banks ( in case of immediate head seperation, lawls )

I know that by the time of Beast Wars, they have their internal systems linked to a secondary computer under their direct control. I'm not sure how G1 were able to monitor their own systems, but they seemed to manage it. Of course, there are always occasions where the damage is too severe to repair. That's where Ratchet and Wheeljack came in, I imagine (though most patients would rather wait for Ratchet to finish before letting Wheeljack take a look. Too many explosions)

That being said, with the presence of such "systems", It kind of suggests the possibility of gender differences, and sexual situations. This is all, of course, fan speculation.

Though Scrapper and Mixmaster in TFA being cat-calling perverts certainly helps my argument a tiny bit >.>

Oh, one last thing that my girlfriend called to me attention: in TFA, Their bipedal forms are even LESS likely to be based off of organics, since for the most part, the entire race seems to fear and/or despise organic lifeforms.

If I hated Captain Picard, I wouldn't dress like him, That's all I'm saying.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:40 pm


I understand its cannon that they're humanesque, it just seems kind of.... unlikely to me.

On the note about nanites, I totally understand the re-routing idea, but it doesn't really address the problem of bacteria and disease getting under their armor and into the oh-so-tiny gears/wires/what not. It would be like an immune system and repair system all at once. >>

I also think that gasoline wouldn't exist on Cybertron, simply because the largest known source of it here comes from the dead bodies of organics decomposing over millions of years under the earth's crust. We didn't make it, it simply was. They could synthesize it, sure, but it wouldn't be easy. For a population that large, it would take an incredible amount of hydrogen, carbon and oxygen. I very much doubt they have a lot of oxygen in their atmosphere, but they do have combustion which means they must have some. They could also synthesize oil, but again, it would be impractical as it too is made of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and a tad bit of sulfur. It would be very difficult to refine the process of making oil/gasoline because hydrogen, carbon and oxygen can form hundreds of different bonds, making a lot of waste when the "ideal" chemical bonds are not formed. On top of that, burning that much fuel of any kind is terrible for the atmosphere, changing weather patterns (they have water, carbon and hydrogen, they could have weather) and blocking out light/trapping heat.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:31 pm


I suppose, but remember this entire franchise was created back in the 80s. When if you wanted something to fly, you wanted to give kids heroes that they could relate to in some way.

Nanites, I suppose. But remember that these aren't biological systems per se. Germs and bacteria wouldn't be as likely to cause damage. Also, I'm sure throughout their bodies, they have several filters or like systems to filter out impurities in any mech fluid/energon flowing throught their.... "veins". That being said, however, there are situations where bacteria DOES affect them, i.e. Cosmic Rust, or the Hatred Plague. (Though the Hatred Plague is still a confusing situation, as it affected any living organism it encountered, biological or otherwise...). In these cases, would the Cosmic Rust have been avoidable if they had a nanite-based defense system? Possibly. Or it would at least be delayed.

About Gas, oil, or otherwise, Nothing is known canonically about a transformers energy processing, or "digestion". We just know they can and have consumed Oil, gas, Lead Sulfide crystals, pure electricity, mercury, to name a few. Apparently they operate under the conductivity of energy as a source of what they can and can't eat. *shrug* Again, noone knows the specifics of how they process their "meals". It's very possible that in their bodies they have some sort of system that operates like a mini-combustion engine, for the processing of materials that require such to release energy. Speculation, mind you, as again, no one has gone so far as to explore the actual "digestional" process. Probably because it would be too great a headache, I couldn't tell you.

Burning that fuel may not cause as much pollution as you think. They may have a system that can convert THAT as well. Who knows? All I know is.. oil or gas goes in, but no one mentions a thing about anything coming out. *shrug*

Impractical as this approach is, we can't forget that we're dealing with mostly alien giant robots. Something that doesn't seem possible. So I guess it's not crazy to think that more things that we would think impossible are possible.
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