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 Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:02 pm
quietstorm 2 In Medias Res IV Since when is it a sin? Better yet, since when does a toevah have ANYTHING to do with Christians? Oh Leviticus, the most raped book on Earth. When was Leviticus raped? I think the book made the subject plain and clear. Too many people substitute the word love for lust. If you think about the anatomy of the male and female there's a good reason the body parts are made diffrent; kinda like a lock and key and the mix does help the reproduction of mankind. I was taught that the a**s was the elimination canal of the body (created for elimation). It seems like our creator had an excellent idea as to our construction. If we would only follow HIS instructions we would have less physical and mental ailments. GOD also gave us the freedom to do with our lives as we choose, but with some freedoms there is a cost; one called by the name of consequences and some of those are deadly to the mind, spirit and or body. So whatever your cup of tea is; You have the GOD given right to choose your lifestyle. Oh please don't edit this. So you're saying that all diseases were created because we didn't follow God? Also Leviticus is a set of laws. You can't just follow one law in a set and not the rest. So If you follow Leviticus 18:22 then you must follow the rest as well. When you only wear cloth of two fibers and don't eat pork or shellfish then you can follow that law. Also I said before that you cannot lie with a man as you do a woman or vice versa because men and women are different therefore the sex with each is different.
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:14 pm
Wonderful timing with this topic; the Lutheran Church just decided to allow sexually active homosexuals to be clergy.
Disregard the fact that the basic moral principles behind laws in the Old Covenant haven't changed; the New Testament says:
Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female.'
Mar 10:7 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife,
Mar 10:8 and the two shall become one flesh'; [fn] so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.
Mar 10:9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."
Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
Rom 1:25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
Rom 1:27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, [fn] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; [they are] whisperers,
Rom 1:30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, [fn] unmerciful;
Rom 1:32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Seems clear enough to me. And yes, I've seen the arguments that try to twist this Scripture into something that doesn't dissaprove of homosexual activity, and I don't buy them.
Never said homosexuality was a 'choice'. Neither did the Scripture, as you can see here. That doesn't mean homosexual activity is right in the eyes of God.
I'm not going to rant that homosexuals are going to hell (all unsaved sinners will). But I will not support homosexually active clergy or vote for gay marriage. God's design is good enough for me.
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:17 pm
Mei tsuki7 quietstorm 2 In Medias Res IV Since when is it a sin? Better yet, since when does a toevah have ANYTHING to do with Christians? Oh Leviticus, the most raped book on Earth. When was Leviticus raped? I think the book made the subject plain and clear. Too many people substitute the word love for lust. If you think about the anatomy of the male and female there's a good reason the body parts are made diffrent; kinda like a lock and key and the mix does help the reproduction of mankind. I was taught that the a**s was the elimination canal of the body (created for elimation). It seems like our creator had an excellent idea as to our construction. If we would only follow HIS instructions we would have less physical and mental ailments. GOD also gave us the freedom to do with our lives as we choose, but with some freedoms there is a cost; one called by the name of consequences and some of those are deadly to the mind, spirit and or body. So whatever your cup of tea is; You have the GOD given right to choose your lifestyle. Oh please don't edit this. So you're saying that all diseases were created because we didn't follow God? Also Leviticus is a set of laws. You can't just follow one law in a set and not the rest. So If you follow Leviticus 18:22 then you must follow the rest as well. When you only wear cloth of two fibers and don't eat pork or shellfish then you can follow that law. Also I said before that you cannot lie with a man as you do a woman or vice versa because men and women are different therefore the sex with each is different. So I can't follow the law from the Old Covenant that says 'do not murder' unless I don't eat pork or shellfish? I'm pretty sure that logic doesn't hold up. There IS a difference between dietary/ceremonial laws and moral laws. The New Covenant abolishes the letter of the Law, but not the spirit/principle of it. EDIT: Also, it's quite obvious what Scripture is talking about by 'lying with a man as you would with a woman'... do you seriously want to argue that it ISN'T talking about homosexual activity?
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:18 pm
Nebulance Wonderful timing with this topic; the Lutheran Church just decided to allow sexually active homosexuals to be clergy. Woah what? Sexually active clergy? Also, I just read your sig for the first time. xd
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:22 pm
Shiori Miko Nebulance Wonderful timing with this topic; the Lutheran Church just decided to allow sexually active homosexuals to be clergy. Woah what? Sexually active clergy? Also, I just read your sig for the first time. xd Lutheran clergy, not Catholic clergy. News Article
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:04 pm
This is one thing I've always taken issue with; equating a sexuality to love. Yes, gay people fall in love, but being gay is having a sexuality. It's being attracted to a person of your same gender. Sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine.
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:18 pm
I believe I said less diease, and there are a few other places in the bible that speaks of sodomy. There is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah where GOD allowed Lot and his family to leave the city. All the men of the town wanted to have sex with the angels that were sent there to warn Lot of the upcoming destruction.( A lot of lust going on) Anyway GOD destroyed the WHOLE CITY because it was infested with homosexuals/gays. I guess it was one of those times when GOD heard the cries of his people. something else intresting about the story is that the dead sea was near by. Gosh it seems like GOD was angry.
Also Leviticus is a set of laws. You can't just follow one law in a set and not the rest. So If you follow Leviticus 18:22 then you must follow the rest as well. When you only wear cloth of two fibers and don't eat pork or shellfish then you can follow that law.
Also I said before that you cannot lie with a man as you do a woman or vice versa because men and women are different therefore the sex with each is different.
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:23 pm
Mei tsuki7 quietstorm 2 In Medias Res IV Since when is it a sin? Better yet, since when does a toevah have ANYTHING to do with Christians? Oh Leviticus, the most raped book on Earth. When was Leviticus raped? I think the book made the subject plain and clear. Too many people substitute the word love for lust. If you think about the anatomy of the male and female there's a good reason the body parts are made diffrent; kinda like a lock and key and the mix does help the reproduction of mankind. I was taught that the a**s was the elimination canal of the body (created for elimation). It seems like our creator had an excellent idea as to our construction. If we would only follow HIS instructions we would have less physical and mental ailments. GOD also gave us the freedom to do with our lives as we choose, but with some freedoms there is a cost; one called by the name of consequences and some of those are deadly to the mind, spirit and or body. So whatever your cup of tea is; You have the GOD given right to choose your lifestyle. Oh please don't edit this. So you're saying that all diseases were created because we didn't follow God? No MEI TSuki I believe I said less diease, and there are a few other places in the bible that speaks of sodomy. There is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah where GOD allowed Lot and his family to leave the city. All the men of the town wanted to have sex with the angels that were sent there to warn Lot of the upcoming destruction.( A lot of lust going on) Anyway GOD destroyed the WHOLE CITY because it was infested with homosexuals/gays. I guess it was one of those times when GOD heard the cries of his people. something else intresting about the story is that the dead sea was near by. Gosh it seems like GOD was angry. Mei Tuski wrote: Also Leviticus is a set of laws. You can't just follow one law in a set and not the rest. So If you follow Leviticus 18:22 then you must follow the rest as well. When you only wear cloth of two fibers and don't eat pork or shellfish then you can follow that law. Also I said before that you cannot lie with a man as you do a woman or vice versa because men and women are different therefore the sex with each is different.
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:47 pm
Mei tsuki7 Someoneiknow my thoughts on the subject of homosexuality. I do not condone, nor condemn homsexuals, but I do not agree with their actions either. Well they can't have sex within marriage because they can't get married. By not allowing them to get married you are forcing them to sin therefore forcing them away from God. (This only applies if you feel sex outside of marriage is a sin.) Well apparently you haven't read the post. You should go back and try again at reading it more carefully.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:45 am
A gentile CANNOT commit a Teoyvah, therefore, Leviticus is NOT applicable to non-Jews.
Period.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:19 am
In Medias Res IV A gentile CANNOT commit a Teoyvah, therefore, Leviticus is NOT applicable to non-Jews. Period. Just because Leviticus doesn't directly apply to Gentiles doesn't mean there's nothing we can learn from it... Regardless, that's why I brought up the two New Testament passages, which should have been included in any discussion of homosexuality from the beginning.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:37 am
Nebulance In Medias Res IV A gentile CANNOT commit a Teoyvah, therefore, Leviticus is NOT applicable to non-Jews. Period. Just because Leviticus doesn't directly apply to Gentiles doesn't mean there's nothing we can learn from it... Regardless, that's why I brought up the two New Testament passages, which should have been included in any discussion of homosexuality from the beginning. some of you guys have no idea what you're talking about. NO, a gentile has no right in Leviticus, please learn what a toeyvah is. NO, the NT passages have nothing to do with homosexuality. You win a cookie if you tell me the Greek word for homosexual. Why should those passages be including anyways? I think the NT is complete and utter bullshit.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:33 am
In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV A gentile CANNOT commit a Teoyvah, therefore, Leviticus is NOT applicable to non-Jews. Period. Just because Leviticus doesn't directly apply to Gentiles doesn't mean there's nothing we can learn from it... Regardless, that's why I brought up the two New Testament passages, which should have been included in any discussion of homosexuality from the beginning. some of you guys have no idea what you're talking about. NO, a gentile has no right in Leviticus, please learn what a toeyvah is. NO, the NT passages have nothing to do with homosexuality. You win a cookie if you tell me the Greek word for homosexual. Why should those passages be including anyways? I think the NT is complete and utter bullshit. Most people have no idea what they're talking about since knowledge is something that can never be fully attained in life. lol, to Christians those NT passages are very relevant but within the confines of Judaism it obviously doesn't hold any weight. No ones going to get anywhere in deliberating over whether or not it's a sin since we're coming from different places on this. Then again, as a Christian I don't believe it to be a sin either. The most compelling evidence for it being a sin in my opinion comes from Romans 1:26-27. That passage starts going into how the people are evil, adulterers, and murderous and since I'm a bit disinclined to believe that all Gay people are evil and murderous and due to the fact that I also believe that God doesn't lie, I have to conclude that it is extremely likely that Romans 1 is not trying to make a point about homosexuality. In response to your original statement/question, no I don't see what ritual cleanliness has to do with Christianity.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:57 am
Semiremis In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV A gentile CANNOT commit a Teoyvah, therefore, Leviticus is NOT applicable to non-Jews. Period. Just because Leviticus doesn't directly apply to Gentiles doesn't mean there's nothing we can learn from it... Regardless, that's why I brought up the two New Testament passages, which should have been included in any discussion of homosexuality from the beginning. some of you guys have no idea what you're talking about. NO, a gentile has no right in Leviticus, please learn what a toeyvah is. NO, the NT passages have nothing to do with homosexuality. You win a cookie if you tell me the Greek word for homosexual. Why should those passages be including anyways? I think the NT is complete and utter bullshit. Most people have no idea what they're talking about since knowledge is something that can never be fully attained in life. lol, to Christians those NT passages are very relevant but within the confines of Judaism it obviously doesn't hold any weight. No ones going to get anywhere in deliberating over whether or not it's a sin since we're coming from different places on this. Then again, as a Christian I don't believe it to be a sin either. The most compelling evidence for it being a sin in my opinion comes from Romans 1:26-27. That passage starts going into how the people are evil, adulterers, and murderous and since I'm a bit disinclined to believe that all Gay people are evil and murderous and due to the fact that I also believe that God doesn't lie, I have to conclude that it is extremely likely that Romans 1 is not trying to make a point about homosexuality. In response to your original statement/question, no I don't see what ritual cleanliness has to do with Christianity. Romans 1:26 has nothing to do with homosexuality, you're right. Effeminate is not a word that means homosexuality. Thomas Aquinas came up with what is deemed as "natural" and "unnatural" Sodom & Gomorrah has nothing to do with homosexuality, nor does Corinthians and any other Torah or NT verse that has been raped. Sorry kids, within context of society, even if these passages translated into homosexuality being a sin (which they don't) homosexuality today is not the same as the beloved/pursuer relationship it was in antiquity.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:31 am
In Medias Res IV Semiremis In Medias Res IV Nebulance In Medias Res IV A gentile CANNOT commit a Teoyvah, therefore, Leviticus is NOT applicable to non-Jews. Period. Just because Leviticus doesn't directly apply to Gentiles doesn't mean there's nothing we can learn from it... Regardless, that's why I brought up the two New Testament passages, which should have been included in any discussion of homosexuality from the beginning. some of you guys have no idea what you're talking about. NO, a gentile has no right in Leviticus, please learn what a toeyvah is. NO, the NT passages have nothing to do with homosexuality. You win a cookie if you tell me the Greek word for homosexual. Why should those passages be including anyways? I think the NT is complete and utter bullshit. Most people have no idea what they're talking about since knowledge is something that can never be fully attained in life. lol, to Christians those NT passages are very relevant but within the confines of Judaism it obviously doesn't hold any weight. No ones going to get anywhere in deliberating over whether or not it's a sin since we're coming from different places on this. Then again, as a Christian I don't believe it to be a sin either. The most compelling evidence for it being a sin in my opinion comes from Romans 1:26-27. That passage starts going into how the people are evil, adulterers, and murderous and since I'm a bit disinclined to believe that all Gay people are evil and murderous and due to the fact that I also believe that God doesn't lie, I have to conclude that it is extremely likely that Romans 1 is not trying to make a point about homosexuality. In response to your original statement/question, no I don't see what ritual cleanliness has to do with Christianity. Romans 1:26 has nothing to do with homosexuality, you're right. Effeminate is not a word that means homosexuality. Thomas Aquinas came up with what is deemed as "natural" and "unnatural" Sodom & Gomorrah has nothing to do with homosexuality, nor does Corinthians and any other Torah or NT verse that has been raped. Sorry kids, within context of society, even if these passages translated into homosexuality being a sin (which they don't) homosexuality today is not the same as the beloved/pursuer relationship it was in antiquity. Well from what it sounds like to me you don't even agree with Christianity anyways, so what does it matter to you where "Christians" go to if they are gay?
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