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 Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:56 pm
Okay. I only read the first few paragraphs, I admit. The point over the bible bothers me, however. Yes, the bible says that, but, to all of these regime faithfuls out there, didn't "god" make them homosexual? didn't "god" condemn them to this earth "knowing" that they'd go to hell because his "word, the bible" condemns them?
It's such bullshit. I thought that God was *supposed* to be kind and innocent because he does no wrong. rolleyes
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:15 pm
God is a vengeful creation, inspiriting people to do good out of fear. "Don't do this or you'll go to HELL!" they cry. Yeah right.
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:19 pm
Cathl Peabody The issue is not that homosexuality is wrong or right; the issue is that the bible is dumb, and the people who follow it are irrational. By the way I'm against homosexual marriage. I'm against all marriage.
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:20 pm
Soleq God is a vengeful creation, inspiriting people to do good out of fear. "Don't do this or you'll go to HELL!" they cry. Yeah right.
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:25 pm
CrossYourHeart Okay. I only read the first few paragraphs, I admit. The point over the bible bothers me, however. Yes, the bible says that, but, to all of these regime faithfuls out there, didn't "god" make them homosexual? didn't "god" condemn them to this earth "knowing" that they'd go to hell because his "word, the bible" condemns them? It's such bullshit. I thought that God was *supposed* to be kind and innocent because he does no wrong. rolleyes
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:30 pm
Teh Sena ButterBalls "Ever hear that homosexuals don't have the same rights as heterosexual people?" I don't even remember saying that but if I did then it was probably because I was just saying that generally homosexuals have less rights than heterosexual people. And I didn't use all biblical interpretation for it. I more talking about how people say that gay people don't have as many rights as straight people. Everyone has the right to get married. Yes, but not to thier gender. My point is that both have the same rights. Now, you didn't use Biblical explaination, I was just giving an example of something that has been used to justify anti-gay marriage sentiment. I think the reason some homosexuals don't agree with gay marriage is because they know that they love the person that they are with. If you love the person you're with, why do you need marriage to deepen your love or to show the commitment if it is in your heart? I think there would be more religious guilt on those unmarried than those married. Which makes me wonder, do people really want to get married to feel less guilty? Some, perhaps.
Anyway, that's not the same rights as someone else. That would mean if that person wants to marry in the same sex they wouldn't have that right. It would ultimately deny them the right to marry and not give them the same rights as other people. It seems like that's just another way to make it seem like they have rights.
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:58 pm
Pauperes Spiritu Forgive me. I havn't read the whole thing, but of what I have read, I can answer some. I'm also sorry if some of this has been previously stated.
I don't use the Leviticus quote when talking about how homosexuality is wrong. DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME: I do not hate homosexuals, nor would I avoid making friends with someone who is one. I am not homophobic, I just think that, as smoking is wrong, so is homosexuality. It's like lying. It's just a sin. I'm not against the person, just against the act. That being said, this is my verse from the Bible...
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:8-10
I think that's pretty black and white.
Aside from that, all I've got to say is, from what I've read and what I'm interpreting, most of that is just how you feel about Christianity and the Bible in general, using the topic of homosexuality as an example. We already know that a lot of people who claim to be Christians actually aren't at heart--most really are hypocrites. Don't judge all by those who are like this. We do believe that everything in the Bible is true, and we have our own reasons for believing this. The Bible clearly states homosexuality is wrong (as I've just pointed out) and thus anyone who believes in the Bible must believe that, too. There's nothing more to that. However, why people hate homosexuals I can never understand. It's like hating me because I have a swearing problem: that's just stupid. It's a sin, we all sin, why do they treat them so differently? That I don't understand.
Tear up my argument all you want. But please don't make this another religious debate thread asking how people know the Bible is true.
I'd have to slightly agree with you. We all make a reference to what's bad and what's good. There are things that are good and there are things that are bad. Someone isn't bad if they have sex with the opposite sex. However, someone is bad if they have sex with the same sex. It sub-consciously and consciously plays with your mind. If someone does wrong they're ultimately lesser people to society and individual people. They think less of you for it. That's why it's so important to people if tey commit a sin, or wrongdoing. That would ultimately lead to what sin is and what things are sins. It would lead to not liking people that commit other sins like murder, stealing, and others.
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:04 pm
Vannak I'm finding more and more that as more adults begin to accepct homosexuality, bisexuality seems to become worse off. Greed seems to come to words more often than not. It is almost as if homosexuality is fine, because you can pretend the people of such sexuality are not like you, however with bisexuality, they are included in your sect of our nice little species. Just my thoughts.
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:32 pm
AraTeran I like many of your points, I am simply pointing out a few parts that I think are weak. And I support gay marriage. That's not a very good arguement. I understand what you mean, but there are a lot of things people could be doing in their own private homes that should be oppressed. It needs to be stated differently. Well, that would have to say what you think is wrong and what you think shouldn't be happening in the privacy of someone's home. I suppose if you wanted to be a**l about the question (no attack intended) it would be necessary to state it differently. However, this wasn't a formal speech nor was it a formal essay of any sort. Most of it was just an opinion on what I thought as far as an update on homosexuality. The last one that I made was about a year ago and if you read it, it's a lot worst than this one and it's filled with a lot of anger. I think I greatly improved since the last one. I think if I were to change the question I would make it directed towards sexual acts in the home. Though, that would lead to rape, molestation, and the likes. Quote: *points to bold* Sorry, I hate being a spelling nazi, but you had the wrong word there. I don't really know if people were concerned with populating the earth to stop themselves from going extinct. I would need some sources to find this arguement valid, because I think it was more likely that people had many children because many died. I don't quite understand what you mean. I don't know which one would actually be right or if any of them were right. I was just simply stating a theory that has potential to be right. Quote: The number of people who got divorced might increase, but I doubt the rate of divorce would go up. I disagree that homosexuals would have a lower divorce rate, seeing how I am sure they would be just as prone to arguements/cheating/other stressors as any heterosexual couple. I wouldn't doubt that either. Maybe you're right though. Maybe you're wrong. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. That is, if homosexual marriages are ever legal throughout the United States. Quote: I also agree with this point. However, I have to bring something up because my friend mentioned it. Would you have a rule stating: "2 consenting adults", but also have a clause about incest (which could be 2 consenting adults)? Yes, two consenting adults would make more sense because that would outrule people that don't want to do it and child marriages unless emancipated. Also, no clause about incest. Quote: I agree that homosexuals are just as good of parents (heh, we just had a lecture on this today in human sexuality class). However, I disagree that homosexuals would have a lower incidence of abuse/neglect/etc. I would argue that it would be about the same, seeing how they are no different from heterosexuals other than sexual orientation. Yeah, I agree with that too. Though, if I had to choose I would say that homosexual unions (whatever that implies) would have less potential to do so. That's just me. Quote: I really don't like the idea of splitting it into two sides. It's just like your basic psych question of "nature vs. nurture", and I think a lot of people consider it a combo of both. Personally, I think it is partly genetic, partly choice. In identical twins, when one is gay there is a higher chance of the other twin being gay too, but it is only about a 50% chance, not 100%. 100% would infer that it is completely genetic. I think this infers partially genetic. Also, in my class today my teacher mentioned a study where a group of homosexual people were asked how they came to their current orientation. Some said they were born feeling that way, some said it was due to trauma, some said it was purely a choice. If you want, I can email my teacher and get more specific info on the study. Your arguement on hermaphrodites is poor. There is an actual, biological deviation that can be clearly seen with a hermaphrodite. Studies are being done on homosexuality, and while there are some correlations to biological differences, these are not clear and have not yet been proven. I'd just like to note that those are studies. Yep, but I think that could also come from knowledge that the person just didn't know they were homosexual or maybe they really aren't homosexual and things like that. I think that's what makes it so hard for people because there's a lot of confusion about it. It wasn't intended to be a strong one. It was just a thought. Quote: I think it would be better to compare homosexuality to being transgendered (being born in the "wrong" sex body) if you want to make your arguement. In each case, there may be some biological correlations, but it is not as clear cut as having both a p***s and v****a. (Of course this would also require the belief that being transgendered is something you are born with and not a choice). True, true. Quote: All societies are unaccepting. Sadly it seems to be a part of human nature. And I tried to get the limegreen color, but my compy hates me. Yeah, I know. Fact of life. It's cool.
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:49 pm
ButterBalls CrossYourHeart Okay. I only read the first few paragraphs, I admit. The point over the bible bothers me, however. Yes, the bible says that, but, to all of these regime faithfuls out there, didn't "god" make them homosexual? didn't "god" condemn them to this earth "knowing" that they'd go to hell because his "word, the bible" condemns them? It's such bullshit. I thought that God was *supposed* to be kind and innocent because he does no wrong. rolleyes -Sigh-. I hate what people make Christianity out to be (I'm talking about those who claim to be Christians but actually aren't). Those who know the answers to the questions your asking will never say that a person is a mutation. You see, to a Christian, God made people with certain personalities. Some are more likely to sin in a certain way than others. For example, I have the tendency to get extremely depressed, and someone may have the temptation to have sex before marriage as a strong one while I do not. People's personalities were created by God, yes. That we do agree on. However, we do not think that certain people are created just to be sent to hell. That isn't true. A homosexual can go to heaven if they repent for what they've done and are truly sorry for it, just like a liar can do the same if he's truly sorry for lying. Get my drift? It's simply a sin. We are all prone to making mistakes, and Christians feel that homosexuality is a mistake. However, I do agree that some tend to over exaggerate what it is. I hate it how people say "Oh you're going to go to hell because you're a homosexual," or "I'm not going to be friends with you anymore now that I know." That is completely and utterly retarded, because they are just as bad as the person for judging them. Retarded morons. All of them. But yes.. see now I'm just as wrong for judging the people judging the homosexual. x_x. Alright enough of that. Well I have a feeling I've just proved how homosexuality is only a sin, but yes. This isn't a religious debate. If you want to know why I believe in God, I can't direct you to a book that you can find all the answers to why God is real, because if I did you'd probably ask how I know that book is real. There's really nothing I can say to make you change your mind. I believe because I've seen things that cannot be coincidences, I believe because I can feel a presence above me. I've studied ways to defend God, and prove to you that there is a God philosophically, but no matter how much I argue, I know you won't listen. Thus, there's really no point in me arguing. So yeah...
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:54 pm
ButterBalls Cathl Peabody The issue is not that homosexuality is wrong or right; the issue is that the bible is dumb, and the people who follow it are irrational. By the way I'm against homosexual marriage. I'm against all marriage. If there's something I said that was illogical or irrational, please do tell me.
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:13 pm
ButterBalls Pauperes Spiritu Forgive me. I havn't read the whole thing, but of what I have read, I can answer some. I'm also sorry if some of this has been previously stated.
I don't use the Leviticus quote when talking about how homosexuality is wrong. DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME: I do not hate homosexuals, nor would I avoid making friends with someone who is one. I am not homophobic, I just think that, as smoking is wrong, so is homosexuality. It's like lying. It's just a sin. I'm not against the person, just against the act. That being said, this is my verse from the Bible...
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:8-10
I think that's pretty black and white.
Aside from that, all I've got to say is, from what I've read and what I'm interpreting, most of that is just how you feel about Christianity and the Bible in general, using the topic of homosexuality as an example. We already know that a lot of people who claim to be Christians actually aren't at heart--most really are hypocrites. Don't judge all by those who are like this. We do believe that everything in the Bible is true, and we have our own reasons for believing this. The Bible clearly states homosexuality is wrong (as I've just pointed out) and thus anyone who believes in the Bible must believe that, too. There's nothing more to that. However, why people hate homosexuals I can never understand. It's like hating me because I have a swearing problem: that's just stupid. It's a sin, we all sin, why do they treat them so differently? That I don't understand.
Tear up my argument all you want. But please don't make this another religious debate thread asking how people know the Bible is true.
I'd have to slightly agree with you. We all make a reference to what's bad and what's good. There are things that are good and there are things that are bad. Someone isn't bad if they have sex with the opposite sex. However, someone is bad if they have sex with the same sex. It sub-consciously and consciously plays with your mind. If someone does wrong they're ultimately lesser people to society and individual people. They think less of you for it. That's why it's so important to people if tey commit a sin, or wrongdoing. That would ultimately lead to what sin is and what things are sins. It would lead to not liking people that commit other sins like murder, stealing, and others. Someone is bad if they have sex with the opposite sex out of the context of marriage. Remember that. People just don't seem to point it out because they're too busy doing it themselves. It's much easier to pick on the people who are a "minority" -rolls eyes-. Yes humans in general are idiots, we've already seen that many times in many situations.. need I even mention that? (I mean we are in the LIH right now). Though people are judging others, we all know that we shouldn't. I mean think about it. When you judge someone for looking fat, don't you morally feel it's wrong? It's the same with their actions, if you're saying that this person is a terrible person for lying, then aren't you, in a sense, committing something just as bad (judging)? It's a downward spiral that never seems to end. The only thing I'm trying to show you is that the people who do judge are just as bad as the offenders and you're right to say they're complete hypocrites, because they are. I don't even bother listening to them anymore, and am so sick of hearing their claims to being Christian. Because really and truely, they have no idea what being a Christian is about. And it's those hypocrites that everyone sees, thus making the people who are actually devout look bad.
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Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:42 pm
Pauperes Spiritu ButterBalls Cathl Peabody The issue is not that homosexuality is wrong or right; the issue is that the bible is dumb, and the people who follow it are irrational. By the way I'm against homosexual marriage. I'm against all marriage. If there's something I said that was illogical or irrational, please do tell me.
For the record, that reply wasn't directed towards you but I suppose I could let you know.
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Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:58 pm
First, to get my rant on religion over with, I don't think that -anyone- should pay attention to what the Bible thinks when debating on a matter of Government policy. They should just take a Purtian view of marriage and just consider it a Civil Contract. I don't pay any heed to a book that says 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' when their God is indirectly and directly responsible for over 2 million deaths. *could rant on, but will stop*
The only reason that I can see why people would want Gay marriage is just for legal coverage. If they are in another country and get hurt, I'm not entirely sure they'd get the same treatment as someone saying 'That's my wife, can I please go in with her.' instead of 'That's my life-partner, may I see her?'
Oh well... I'm just tired and ranting xd
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Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:59 pm
Pauperes Spiritu ButterBalls CrossYourHeart Okay. I only read the first few paragraphs, I admit. The point over the bible bothers me, however. Yes, the bible says that, but, to all of these regime faithfuls out there, didn't "god" make them homosexual? didn't "god" condemn them to this earth "knowing" that they'd go to hell because his "word, the bible" condemns them? It's such bullshit. I thought that God was *supposed* to be kind and innocent because he does no wrong. rolleyes -Sigh-. I hate what people make Christianity out to be (I'm talking about those who claim to be Christians but actually aren't). Those who know the answers to the questions your asking will never say that a person is a mutation. You see, to a Christian, God made people with certain personalities. Some are more likely to sin in a certain way than others. For example, I have the tendency to get extremely depressed, and someone may have the temptation to have sex before marriage as a strong one while I do not. People's personalities were created by God, yes. That we do agree on. However, we do not think that certain people are created just to be sent to hell. That isn't true. A homosexual can go to heaven if they repent for what they've done and are truly sorry for it, just like a liar can do the same if he's truly sorry for lying. Get my drift? It's simply a sin. We are all prone to making mistakes, and Christians feel that homosexuality is a mistake. However, I do agree that some tend to over exaggerate what it is. I hate it how people say "Oh you're going to go to hell because you're a homosexual," or "I'm not going to be friends with you anymore now that I know." That is completely and utterly retarded, because they are just as bad as the person for judging them. Retarded morons. All of them. But yes.. see now I'm just as wrong for judging the people judging the homosexual. x_x. Alright enough of that. Well I have a feeling I've just proved how homosexuality is only a sin, but yes. This isn't a religious debate. If you want to know why I believe in God, I can't direct you to a book that you can find all the answers to why God is real, because if I did you'd probably ask how I know that book is real. There's really nothing I can say to make you change your mind. I believe because I've seen things that cannot be coincidences, I believe because I can feel a presence above me. I've studied ways to defend God, and prove to you that there is a God philosophically, but no matter how much I argue, I know you won't listen. Thus, there's really no point in me arguing. So yeah...
Well, then, I think that's another one of the contradicting theories that Chrstians or people who believe in the bible have. I don't think you can have a creator that can know your future but not be able to predict or say what you're going to do. I think that's impossible. If they were to already know then they would define your future, whatever your future may be.
That's just another thing that doesn't make sense to me and why people follow it. Here we have an entire universe and an entire way of life. We have on average 70-+ years of life to live it. In all that time, I just don't see why people are willing to follow such a strict set of rules. Why are they willing to go through that when life could be so much better otherwise? Why not have sex before marriage? Why not eat meat? Why not act on temptations that you have? Why not have same-sex marriages? Why not have homosexual sex? Why not transform your figure?
Also, before I forget, I'd like to just make a statement about some of the proclaimed Christians and science. What I don't get is that someone will absolutely hate a "fortune-teller" or things that are scientific and then they'll go hop in a car and go home. People get plastic surgery which changes the features god gives them. People say "let god decide" in all these things like PVS patients, death penalty, and abortions but wouldn't God have decided even if we killed them or something? What if one of them was a profit to kill a new Hitler?
I'm sorry. I'm not answering that comment because I have somewhat of a reputation to uphold in this community.
Yeah, and that's what they said about pork. Slavery was alright and now it's not. Women oppression was apparently right and now everyone hates it. Black people were worst than dogs and now dogs suck. Apparently, they seem to be wrong A LOT. But that's just me. Seems like God didn't intend for those things to happen but rather the people themselves. So, maybe it's the people that don't like homosexuality and maybe they're committing libelous actions towards God.
Now, if God exists and for the sake of this argument I'm going to say he does. I'm also going to say that he was a human since he technically existed. Therefore, I don't see any problem in taking Christians and Catholics to court for the bible for: slander and libel and fraud. You know? I'd probably do it just to see how it plays out.
Oh, no no no. You've got me all wrong. I'll listen to you and I'm totally willing to debate it. Though, I have no problem in laughing at you nor do I have a problem with you laughing at me for what I believe. I don't care if you think the bible exists or the things that it says are great. Though, I will say now that I think most of what you're feeling is because you want it so badly to exist that you sort of... Hallucinate. I don't know all the medical mumbo jumbo but I know the scientific reasoning by it.
The main, main, main, main, main, main problem I have with religion especially in reference to the bible is how they mix and confuse religion and spirituality. I absolutely despise and hate the religion of Christians and Catholics, most of the time but I like the spirituality of Christianity (not catholicism).
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