|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:20 am
iRoseThorn_xXx My friend and I saw your video of you training your horse in the canter. We have been riding with the same trainer for over 6 years, not to mention we have had much experience before hand with several types of horses (including trouble horses much worse than yours and we have trained horses that our trainer has sold for good money), so this is our critique... 1.) You CANNOT be nervous when you ride your horse. If you feel nervous or scared, you should not be riding that horse. If you feel nervous already, you have no reason to be training her because a horse like that needs confidence and precision, especially horses in training need a rider that can tell the horse with assurance what, when, and how to do something. I'm only nervous when I canter her. And I don't canter her often. The video was the first time I had cantered in probably a year or just slightly less. Honestly, I've gone through so much with this horse that I'm the ONLY ONE who can get on her back without her having a hissy fit.2.) You need to learn your leads. The first direction you were trotting in, you were posting on the wrong diaganol. This does not only confuse the horse, but it can hurt their back. As I said, I was never taught which diaganol to trot on. I'm trying to keep it in my head to rise with the outside. Right?3.) Your hands are too far forward and too high up. This is what makes your horses head come up and forward. This could make then head-shy and nervous of the bit and this also screws up their neck muscles. So, hands should be down, steady, and positioned (not rested on), near the front of the pommel of the saddle. When you hold the reins, you should have your two second nuckles touching. Mkay, I can understand how that would keep her head up. But she isn't, nor has she ever been head shy. She was at one point refusing the bit (When I first got her) because she was abused and didn't want her ear touched. She'd been tied by her ears. Anyway, I'll lower my hands.4.) You MUST work on your seat! If you have to, practice this at a REALLY slow pace. Bad seat can lead to the horse being confused with aids and you will screw up their back muscles. Before you EVER canter, you MUST have a proper seat. We speak from experience. One of our friends actually had to put her horse down because her seat was so bad, it screwed her horse's back up so terribly, that she became useless. I've been working on my seat for as long as I've owned her. She is the hardest horse to work with simply BECAUSE all she wants to do is go fast.5.) Before giving the aid to canter, you must SIT three strong beats, preferably using your back a potential halfhalt to, three beats are minimum, but as our training, our trainer made us go over an hour lesson ONLY sitting trot, NO posting. 6.) DO NOT CANTER YOUR HORSE EVER, IF THEIR HEAD IS UP. I don't care how badly you want to canter, you CANNOT make your horse canter if their head is up. I do not care if you takes you weeks to accomplish this without any canter, but do not try cantering if you have a horse with a high head or if the head is too far to the outside. If the head is to the outside, it could throw the horse off balance causing them to falter and tweak the shoulders and ankles. Somebody looking to buy my horse did this, and they screwed his ankle and now he is ruined and can never preform the same again and he was brilliant, but now, I am out a perfect show horse. Okay. How do you expect me to get her head down, when I've had her for 5 years and her head has dropped.. five times while I was riding? Throughout the course of the 5 years? I'm exadurating, but it's true that she does not drop her head very easily. I'm aware that her head needs to be down, but it really isn't as easy as you expect it to be. I try to make the adjustments, and it only makes her crazy.7.) You need to have a slow trot, pre-canter. Do not ruch the horse into it by constant kicking and such. Before you canter and give the aid, it is best to give a strong, firm, but NOT violent halfhalt using the inside rein. Then, sit back, press your seat-bones into the saddle, swing outside leg back only a few inches, no more than 3. Throughout canter, (assuming you have accomplished getting your horses head under control), you should be giving slight, but firm halfhalts through the entire canter, if needed. If your horse does not know how to canter with the aid, then begin to practice giving the aid, but at the same use a whip (not hard, but so they can feel it, maybe even a firm tap), until your horse knows how to do this without the whip. First of all, I don't kick her into it. I barely give her any pressure with my legs when I ride. I NEVER kick her. Ever. 'Assuming I have gotten her head under control'? I'm sorry, your critique is fine and dandy, but you're very discouraging. If I use a whip, no matter how light the tap is, how little I use it.. Ruby will explode. I have used that kind of aid before, my old trainer was a dressage trainer, and it does NOT work with her. I don't know why people expect it to work with her when all it does is make her worse.8.) DANGER!!!! AH!!! We saw you cantering and then suddenly change direction through the cavaletti's (poles on ground), and this can seriously ruin your horse. You can never do this (unless you have advanced skills), without your horse being flexed, supple, and understanding through the neck. Not to mention, UNDER CONTROL. And knowing what you're doing as a pair, horse and rider. Did you think that I told her to suddenly change direction? (I know they're cavaletti's btw) I didn't tell her to change! She did it herself, and I was trying to keep her from doing it!9.) The arena is no problem. The low fencing is typical dressage show material, and you will ALWAYS find this. The horse could care less about fence or no fence. We rode our untrained horses in a OPEN field (no fences whatsoever) in 20 meter circles BAREBACK. We know that this sounds like we're boasting, but it's possible. My other horse, a Quarter Pony blind in one eye, didn't know left from right when I first got her. She was literally un-rideable, but I trained her bareback in the open fields until she got the picture. She now can canter from a calm walk instead of rushing and she can successfully keep her canter smooth and flowing. I know you can do it, trust me- my horse was worse. Even on her best day she was absolutely HORRIBLE!! I realize that the arena is dressage show material, but I don't ride dressage. Don't say that the horse could care less about the fence. You don't know my horse. Ruby has taken me out of that arena so many times just at a trot. And I honestly don't care about how you can get your horse in a field with no fences. I can't do that. And I know I'll be able to do it. Eventually.10.) TO STARGAZER42: DO NOT TELL HER TO DROP THE REINS AND LET THE HORSE FALL ON HER FACE!!!!!!!!!!!! We know that dropping the reins works on most horses, but for this horse, its not a matter of leaning on the hands! She has no contact in the hands, which is ruining the horse and the rider's style. By dropping the reins, if dropped too fast, the horse can scrape up their face, make them head-shy, possibly break a jawbone, etc.! If dropped too slow, skin near the mouth will rip and other injuries will also occur. The rein-dropping is a tad too risky.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:29 am
AriaStarSong I'll have to watch the video again tomorrow when I can concentrate on it, my friends are trying to distract me at the moment razz Does she know the one-rein-stop? Honestly, the biggest thing that I'm getting from this video and the other ones that you've posted is that she scares you. And I'm not saying that to be mean or to say that you shouldn't ride her. That's the last thing I mean. The reason I'm the rider that I am today is because I rode horses that scared the crap out of me when I was younger and learned how to get past that, to be able to control my nerves and use the energy that created for my own purposes instead of letting it inhibit my riding. You'll get better at that as you go, it just takes time and practice. smile Anyway, back to the one-rein stop. You're biggest fear issue seems to stem from not being able to stop her. I know you don't mean it in a mean way. I don't think she knows the one rein stop. And it isn't really that she scares me.. it's just, the fact that I know if she gets out of control I won't be able to stop her. That's what really scares me. Because I love her to death and I wouldn't trade her for the world. Start at the halt, and make sure that you can isolate her flexing her neck either side. Don't do anything with your legs, just pull one rein back to your hip while leaving the other rein slack. She'll probably turn in circles at first, but just hold the tension on that rein until she stops moving and gives to the pressure. As soon as she does, drop the rein, and rub her on the neck. Practice both ways until she can easily give to pressure both directions without spinning in circles. Once you have her doing at the halt, move to trying it from the walk. It should get to where pull her head to the side and she immediately gives to the pressure and halts. Once you have it mastered at the walk, move to doing it at the trot. I wouldn't practice it at the canter, because it' a lot harder on her and will likely throw her off balance, but practice it often at the walk and trot as an "emergency brake" so that she will know to associate it with stopping. Okay, I've done what you're talking about before. The chiropractor that we had come out told me to do it exactly how you're suggesting, so I know what to do. But I've never done it at the walk. Do you mean to do it the same way? Won't she just turn in circles while she's at the walk or trot? I know she'll eventually get it, but still. razz Okay, back to the video. Don't let her stop to itch like that. It's rude. I know that being itchy is annoying, but to slam on the brakes like that while your riding to itch is completely rude and unacceptable. She can scratch when you stop for a break. When she does that, send her forward. Stargazer had some really good suggestions to about desensitizing her sides a little, which will help you. You need to be able to have a solid leg, or you can't affect her movement. She needs to know that pressure does not always mean GO. Alrighty, I won't let her do that. She doesn't usually, mind you. But yeah, I agree that it's rude. And I will try that desensitizing. I was going to go lunge her today, but it rained. But I'll try that, and I hope it will work.As for the canter transitions, Pianoangel is exactly right about not posting into the canter. You seem to have kind of a circular problem between the two of you in the canter, however. Because she is tense, she goes faster, which causes you to tense and not be able to follow her movement as well, which causes her back to hollow, her head to come up, and her to run on her forehand. You pull back on the reins in an attempt to slow her, which just pulls her head farther up, hollowing her back more and making it impossible to sit on, which leads to you bouncing, which makes her more tense... I think you get my point. So I'm going to suggest something that goes against my dressage world. Don't sit the canter. I used to be a huge advocate for always sitting, but after more research into biomechanics and learning more about how your seat affects your horse's movement, and training a few more horses, I'm becoming a bigger fan of getting off of your horse's back in the canter, especially if they're tense or green. Now, I'm not talking a full two-point or galloping position, I'm thinking just raise your weight slightly out of the saddle so you're staying balanced over the saddle, but not bouncing on her back. Some horses, this is all that they need to be able to stretch over their back. Not always, but if you're not bouncing on her, she'll have more opportunity to relax her back and start properly cantering rather than doing what is known by many trainers as the "pony gallop" canter. Another thing that can be very useful for controlling a canter that accelerates like hers does is "posting" the canter. Now, this does not mean posting into the canter. What you do is you move in and out of two-point with every stride. So you sit for one stride, then "rise" into a sort-of two-point for a stride, then sink back into your seat the next stride, so it's not really a proper post, but it's a rising action. I used to use this with my thoroughbred on cross country, and the rhythm of my posting was able to help regulate his stride and we might have a prayer of coming in within time. You can also use your posting to help slow the stride. If you slow your posting by being almost a little sluggish to rise again, most horses will regulate their stride to match what you're doing to make it more comfortable for her. It feels awkward at first, but once you get the feel of it, it's almost easier than the posting trot. It was also the only way to regulate my thoroughbred's pace. He was off the track, so whenever I got up into two-point, he would accelerate, no matter how carefully I rode my half-halts. Alright, I get what you're saying. I suppose it makes sense to keep off of their backs when they're cantering. I'll definitely stop posting into the canter, but I'll try what you're saying as well. After a while that is. I wasn't planning on cantering any time soon after this video was taken.I still think that you need to spend a lot more time in the trot perfecting your transitions and getting her bending and supple over her topline and throughout her body. I think I've given you exercises for that before? I can also give you some more, but not tonight, because I'm really distracted. I'll have to come back tomorrow. Oh I agree. And yes, I have those excersies. I think I'll print them out when I get the chance so I don't have to get online just to refer to them.Looking back through that, I realize that I might be being a little harsher than I normally am. I hope you don't get discouraged by that. As I've said before, you've got some good things going for you, and since you're showing a real hunger to learn, I'm going to try to help as much as I can. Ask lots of questions and keep working on it, you're improving more and more every time! No no, I'm not discouraged. You gave/give great critique. Really, I just want Ruby to be a good horse. She is really responsive (although it doesn't look that way in my videos). I just want to get her to a point where I can ride in groups and I don't have to worry about her bolting or getting out of control. I really love her. smile
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:47 am
I would realllly suggest trying to get a coach and take consistant lessons for a while. The biggest issues your having right now are that both you and your horse are tense, and your horse is ignoring your aids. Does she leg yeild? Latteral work is your BEST friend. Being able to controle the horses ribs is your safety belt. If she leg yeilds, do a llot of it at walk and trot, keeping the same pace and not letting her run forward when you put your leg on. When she does bolt forward (while trotting, or hops up into trot while your walking), half halt, do a small circle (dont wip her off her feet, but do about a 10m circle if you can), bringing her back to the pace you want during the circle. Then carry on ahead as if nothing has happend. If she serges forward, circle and half halts again. This is a really simple way to teach your horse to half halt. Make sure you half halt before you circle, if she doesnt come back from that, then you circle and give stronger half halts, or even bring her down a gait. She'll learn that its easier to just respond to the first half halt. Take the cavellettis out before you ride, it'll give you more room. If she doesn't leg yeild, you'll probably need help from a coach for that. One thing you can do is teach her a turn on the forehand. Start on the ground, holding the inside rein, and with your other handtouch her mid barrel and get her to swing her hing end around. When she does, loosen the rein (you can have it quite short at first, so shes looking at you, often ill hold the saddle at the same time because sometimes the horse tries to fight it and pull forward), and take your hand off her side. Work on this until you can make her turn on her forehand both directions with a loose rein without stepping forward. Then youre ready to try it on her back. When riding, after walking around a bit, stop her. Hold your right rein still, take a little bit with your left rein, and slide your left leg back and ask her to move her haunches around. If she does, loosen your reins a little and allow her to walk forward. your right rein is to keep her straight and keep her from moving forward, your left rein is to help turn. Viceversa left/right for the other way. Once you have it both ways, you can start walking 'boxes', where you stop, turn 90 degrees, and walk on again, and do that over and over. Making sure to do it both ways. Once shes really good at this, when you ask her to turn normally, you put your inside leg on and she should soften in her ribs a little and move her hanuches around. This is the beginning of leg yeilding, bending, and going round.
Once you have a half halt and controle of the ribs, often the horse will drop into your hand pressure (not dump down into it, but start to carry herself better and on contact). Once this happens, it's easier to controle the horses body and speed, because the horse is between your hand and leg. When you get your horse soft in your hand at walk and trot, and responding to a half halt (and going forward without bolting off) youre ready to canter again. But yeah, I still think it would be best if you could find a coach. They'll be able to help you as the problem comes up.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:28 pm
1.) I'm only nervous when I canter her. And I don't canter her often. The video was the first time I had cantered in probably a year or just slightly less. Honestly, I've gone through so much with this horse that I'm the ONLY ONE who can get on her back without her having a hissy fit. I can tell you right now, I feel your pain. My trainer has a Quarter pony mare and she is a PAIN IN THE a**. I will admit, she is much worse than your horse and your horse is an Arab mare. Your pony is an angel compared to mine. I too, am the only one that can ride her, because I'm the only one that has the patience. So, even if you haven't cantered in awhile, you still have to work up to it.
2.) As I said, I was never taught which diaganol to trot on. I'm trying to keep it in my head to rise with the outside. Right? Close. You have to rise to the inside leg.
3.) Mkay, I can understand how that would keep her head up. But she isn't, nor has she ever been head shy. She was at one point refusing the bit (When I first got her) because she was abused and didn't want her ear touched. She'd been tied by her ears. Anyway, I'll lower my hands. We said that she can BECOME head shy, if the bit is being pulled too much or if there is too much tension through the hands and arms. My pony I am training (mentioned in answer 1), was also tied by the ears and I have a hell of a time getting the crown piece over her ears and then that spooks her and gets her riled up and then my ride will be all over the place. With a horse like that, I would do A LOT of trotting as a warm-up until you can trot her at a steady, forward pace, with the reins lose and held only at the buckle.
4.) I've been working on my seat for as long as I've owned her. She is the hardest horse to work with simply BECAUSE all she wants to do is go fast. Read above answer. A lot of hard trotting and firm halfhalts should help your pony learn a steady pace. And if she is smooth enough, try a good 30 minutes of sitting-trot.
5.) Before giving the aid to canter, you must SIT three strong beats, preferably using your back a potential halfhalt to, three beats are minimum, but as our training, our trainer made us go over an hour lesson ONLY sitting trot, NO posting.
6.) Okay. How do you expect me to get her head down, when I've had her for 5 years and her head has dropped.. five times while I was riding? Throughout the course of the 5 years? I'm exadurating, but it's true that she does not drop her head very easily. I'm aware that her head needs to be down, but it really isn't as easy as you expect it to be. I try to make the adjustments, and it only makes her crazy. We were only trying to help and we are sorry if that came out rudely on our part. We understand. The aforementioned pony I am training is the EXACT same way. I would try the advice I gave on 3.). Having a light hand and lose reins (WITH CONTROL) will always presuade them to reach their head down. Once they do, don't try cantering. Just keep in the same, steady trot for another 10-15 minutes or so. After this is becoming a habit, try gathering up the reins inch by inch for more of a collection through the neck muscles.
7.) First of all, I don't kick her into it. I barely give her any pressure with my legs when I ride. I NEVER kick her. Ever. 'Assuming I have gotten her head under control'? I'm sorry, your critique is fine and dandy, but you're very discouraging. If I use a whip, no matter how light the tap is, how little I use it.. Ruby will explode. I have used that kind of aid before, my old trainer was a dressage trainer, and it does NOT work with her. I don't know why people expect it to work with her when all it does is make her worse. We did not mean "kick" or "beating". Sorry again. We just meant that you should not use hard persuasion. Again, my pony does not like the whip. I find that giving her a strong, over-corrected canter aid from the collected TROT works well. What we meant by her head being under control, is that is should be down and calm. If you don't want to use a whip, don't. Try using many methods and see what works best.
8.)Did you think that I told her to suddenly change direction? (I know they're cavaletti's btw) I didn't tell her to change! She did it herself, and I was trying to keep her from doing it! Again, sorry for the apparent rudeness. Anyway, even if your horse did change her direction on her own, you should have have pulled her back around through the jumps and continued your ground work on that side of the jumps, NOT letting her do it again, until she got the picture. I know that having a horse that is so fidgety and unpredictable can be tough, but those are the horses that need the most bossing around. Don't be afraid to get rough and tell her how it is done. But always give her a lot of praise if she does something right, even as simple as turning her ears back to hear your voice.
9.)I realize that the arena is dressage show material, but I don't ride dressage. Don't say that the horse could care less about the fence. You don't know my horse. Ruby has taken me out of that arena so many times just at a trot. And I honestly don't care about how you can get your horse in a field with no fences. I can't do that. And I know I'll be able to do it. Eventually. I have never known a horse to care about the height of an arena fence. What bothered me is that you let your horse do something so entirely rude and let her get away with it. I don't care how many times you have purposely let her trot over fence out of the arena, it is still bad manners, Dressage or not.
Agn, sorry for any rudeness, we were only trying to help you out. I have been through this and the pony I am training is SO MUCH like your Arab, I think maybe I could help. But I will try not to be snooty about it, that was NEVER my first intention anyway.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:25 pm
iRoseThorn_xXx 1.) I'm only nervous when I canter her. And I don't canter her often. The video was the first time I had cantered in probably a year or just slightly less. Honestly, I've gone through so much with this horse that I'm the ONLY ONE who can get on her back without her having a hissy fit.I can tell you right now, I feel your pain. My trainer has a Quarter pony mare and she is a PAIN IN THE a**. I will admit, she is much worse than your horse and your horse is an Arab mare. Your pony is an angel compared to mine. I too, am the only one that can ride her, because I'm the only one that has the patience. So, even if you haven't cantered in awhile, you still have to work up to it. It isn't so much that no one else has the patience, it's just the fact that if anyone else tries to ride her they give her bad comands and crap. My dad thinks he's a cowboy and tries to ride with one hand.2.) As I said, I was never taught which diaganol to trot on. I'm trying to keep it in my head to rise with the outside. Right?Close. You have to rise to the inside leg.Okay, so let me get this one straight. Rise when her inside leg is forward?3.) Mkay, I can understand how that would keep her head up. But she isn't, nor has she ever been head shy. She was at one point refusing the bit (When I first got her) because she was abused and didn't want her ear touched. She'd been tied by her ears. Anyway, I'll lower my hands.We said that she can BECOME head shy, if the bit is being pulled too much or if there is too much tension through the hands and arms. My pony I am training (mentioned in answer 1), was also tied by the ears and I have a hell of a time getting the crown piece over her ears and then that spooks her and gets her riled up and then my ride will be all over the place. With a horse like that, I would do A LOT of trotting as a warm-up until you can trot her at a steady, forward pace, with the reins lose and held only at the buckle.It took me about a year to get her over having her ears touched, but she's still flinchy if you poke the inside of her ear. She used to throw her head every time I even touched near her ears. And she wouldn't let me put on the bridle without a TON of trouble. But she's perfectly fine with letting me get it on her now and it doesn't seem to be a problem anymore.4.) I've been working on my seat for as long as I've owned her. She is the hardest horse to work with simply BECAUSE all she wants to do is go fast. Read above answer. A lot of hard trotting and firm halfhalts should help your pony learn a steady pace. And if she is smooth enough, try a good 30 minutes of sitting-trot.5.) Before giving the aid to canter, you must SIT three strong beats, preferably using your back a potential halfhalt to, three beats are minimum, but as our training, our trainer made us go over an hour lesson ONLY sitting trot, NO posting. 6.) Okay. How do you expect me to get her head down, when I've had her for 5 years and her head has dropped.. five times while I was riding? Throughout the course of the 5 years? I'm exadurating, but it's true that she does not drop her head very easily. I'm aware that her head needs to be down, but it really isn't as easy as you expect it to be. I try to make the adjustments, and it only makes her crazy. We were only trying to help and we are sorry if that came out rudely on our part. We understand. The aforementioned pony I am training is the EXACT same way. I would try the advice I gave on 3.). Having a light hand and lose reins (WITH CONTROL) will always presuade them to reach their head down. Once they do, don't try cantering. Just keep in the same, steady trot for another 10-15 minutes or so. After this is becoming a habit, try gathering up the reins inch by inch for more of a collection through the neck muscles.I know you're trying to help, just some of your answers seemed kind of rude and sounded like I was the complete problem. I don't plan to canter anytime soon, so don't worry. I'll try that, and thanks.7.) First of all, I don't kick her into it. I barely give her any pressure with my legs when I ride. I NEVER kick her. Ever. 'Assuming I have gotten her head under control'? I'm sorry, your critique is fine and dandy, but you're very discouraging. If I use a whip, no matter how light the tap is, how little I use it.. Ruby will explode. I have used that kind of aid before, my old trainer was a dressage trainer, and it does NOT work with her. I don't know why people expect it to work with her when all it does is make her worse.We did not mean "kick" or "beating". Sorry again. We just meant that you should not use hard persuasion. Again, my pony does not like the whip. I find that giving her a strong, over-corrected canter aid from the collected TROT works well. What we meant by her head being under control, is that is should be down and calm. If you don't want to use a whip, don't. Try using many methods and see what works best.8.) Did you think that I told her to suddenly change direction? (I know they're cavaletti's btw) I didn't tell her to change! She did it herself, and I was trying to keep her from doing it!Again, sorry for the apparent rudeness. Anyway, even if your horse did change her direction on her own, you should have have pulled her back around through the jumps and continued your ground work on that side of the jumps, NOT letting her do it again, until she got the picture. I know that having a horse that is so fidgety and unpredictable can be tough, but those are the horses that need the most bossing around. Don't be afraid to get rough and tell her how it is done. But always give her a lot of praise if she does something right, even as simple as turning her ears back to hear your voice.See, the problem with my corrections is that when I try to turn her again, she lurches forward, and because of the low fencing, she jumps and freaks out even more. But I can understand making sure she doesn't do it again. She is definitely a horse that needs constant reassurance and reinforcement.9.) I realize that the arena is dressage show material, but I don't ride dressage. Don't say that the horse could care less about the fence. You don't know my horse. Ruby has taken me out of that arena so many times just at a trot. And I honestly don't care about how you can get your horse in a field with no fences. I can't do that. And I know I'll be able to do it. Eventually.I have never known a horse to care about the height of an arena fence. What bothered me is that you let your horse do something so entirely rude and let her get away with it. I don't care how many times you have purposely let her trot over fence out of the arena, it is still bad manners, Dressage or not.I don't think it's that she cares about it, but it's that I care about it. It's one of the reasons I hate riding in there, because she tries to get out of it so much. I try not to let her, and I don't let her walk over it to get out. and she doesn't do it often anymore. The first time I started riding in it she did quite a bit. It's mainly only when I'm going Clockwise, because she seems to have the worst time going that way. Agn, sorry for any rudeness, we were only trying to help you out. I have been through this and the pony I am training is SO MUCH like your Arab, I think maybe I could help. But I will try not to be snooty about it, that was NEVER my first intention anyway.Don't worry about it. I've just gotten so much critisism when I ride Ruby, and so many people think that I'm just a horrible rider when I know that isn't the case. It's an effort me and Ruby have to make as a pair. (Still, we've come a long way since I first started riding her.)
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:55 pm
iRoseThorn_xXx 2.) As I said, I was never taught which diaganol to trot on. I'm trying to keep it in my head to rise with the outside. Right?Close. You have to rise to the inside leg. Who in the world taught you that? I mean no offense to your coach, and maybe we're just miscommunicating, but that's wrong. We always teach our little kids the rhyme "rise and fall with the leg on the wall". You rise as the outside front comes forward and you sit as it comes back. So I suppose you are rising with the inside hind, but that's harder for most people to think about. It's usually easier to think about the front legs, especially as you're learning your diagonals. And now, for an Aria tangent on posting diagonalsTraditionally, we are always taught to post on the outside diagonal, which means that you are in the air and off of your horse's back as the inside hind comes forward. There are many different reasons for this, the most common one cited is simply tradition. As far as actual purpose in riding goes, however, the reason you rise with the outside diagonal is to allow for more freedom of movement in the inside hind. With your weight off of their back, you won't be restricting their movement at all (of course, ideally your seat should not restrict their movement in general, but people aren't perfect and that's why we post) with will allow for greater reach with the inside hind and improve the horse's gait as well as allowing for more suppleness in the bend. Diagonals, however, are a tricky thing. Traditionally, you post on the outside diagonal for the above mentioned reasons. HOWEVER, there are many cases where posting on the "wrong" diagonal is a legitimate training exercise. If you have a very secure, independent, and effective seat, posting on the inside diagonal (so you sit as the inside hind comes forward) can give you more control over the inside hind. This can be useful if you're working on the beginnings of collection but your horse isn't quite ready for the sitting trot yet. (more on my beliefs about the sitting trot later) Lateral work is an area of contention when it comes to posting diagonals. Personally, I prefer to sit when I'm leg yielding because it makes it easier to get the timing right, give me more control over my horse's haunches, and in general, is just easier for me. But not every horse is ready for that, and since leg yielding is one of my favorite suppling exercises, I often have to post in the interest of the horse. There are two different schools of thought as to which diagonal you should post on when doing lateral work. For the purpose of this discussion, let's assume that you are leg yielding from the quarter line to the wall on the long side of the arena, that way "inside" and "outside" can stay consistent. One school of thought says that you should continue to post on the outside diagonal when leg yielding because the inside hind needs that extra freedom as it crosses under the body, which is what provides the suppling part of the exercise. Again, your weight is off of your horse's back and you are therefore not restricting their movement. Another view is that you should post on the inside diagonal when leg yielding because it improves your timing. You need to be applying the leg aid as the inside hind is lifting off of the ground, and it is much easier to apply said leg aid when you are sitting. So you can get into a rhythm where you apply the leg every time you sit, which signals the horse to swing that inside hind under their body and move sideways. Both are correct. The only difference is what each individual horse and rider needs. Young or inexperienced riders, I'll often have post on the "wrong" diagonal so that they can learn the timing. If I'm working with a young horse learning the movement, however, I'll usually stay on the correct diagonal because I have more precise control over my aids (although far from perfect, I have a lot of work to do) so I can focus more on improve the freedom of movement in my horse. So, the point is, that there is no "right" or "wrong" diagonal. It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Posting on the "wrong" diagonal will not injure your horse unless you are twisting really hard or coming down hard on their back, and that will hurt them no matter which diagonal you're on. Alright, next topic. The sitting trot. A trend that I hate to see in a lot of dressage training (and I'm guilty of it too, back before I knew better) is sitting too soon, or pushing riders to sit before they and their horses are ready. You cannot sit on a tense back. You cannot sit on a hollow back. You may physically be able to, but you will not have the unity that you're looking for. The whole purpose of the sitting trot is to allow for greater precision of the aids and improved communication through the seat. If your horse is not relaxed (my definition to follow) then it doesn't matter if you glue your jeans to the saddle, you're not going to get a good sitting trot. It has nothing to do with practice, it has everything to do with preparing the horse's back to sit on. Relaxation is the state in which the horse is most willing and able to accept the rider's aids. With a high strung horse like Ruby, this means that she needs to slow down and, literally, relax. But if you have a slower, pokier horse (often seen in older quarter horses or your stereotypical "school horse) then you have to light a bit of a fire underneath them before you achieve relaxation. Where was I going with this? Oh, yes, I remember now. Sitting trot. Your goal is to get your horse working over their topline with a relaxed and swinging back, reaching under their body and carrying their weight in balance. Most horses move with a hollow back and a high head for two reasons (which are often related) 1) poor balance or 2) pain. Neither of these problems are helped by the rider grinding their seatbones into the horse's back and bouncing on them. If the problem is balance, suppling exercises are your friend. Leg yielding, as Brat suggested, is perfect. Lots of serpentines, figure eights, circles, and transitions both between the gaits and within the gaits, will help improve their balance. If the problem is pain, then trying to sit on them REALLY won't help, and you may want to consider a chiropractic evaluation as well as checking your saddle fit. Watching Ruby go, she doesn't look like "pain", she looks more like balance. I know a lot of people will disagree with me when I make this statement, but I urge you, DO NOT sit on your horse's back until they are able to bring their back up and work over their topline, and until they are evenly supple throughout their body. If you bounce on your horse's back, it's only going to create more tension. Okay, so the biggest obstacle when you have a horse like Ruby that has always carried themselves high-headed and hollow in the back, is that all of her muscles are developed for carrying her that way. Even if she suddenly had an epiphany and decided that she was going to collect herself and bring her back up and do everything perfectly, she is probably only physically capable of carrying herself like that for a few strides. Collection is HARD. It's like lifting weights. It requires a high level of fitness on the part of the horse and proper development of their musculature. Next time you're out at the barn, look at the muscles in her neck. I can't really see in the video, but I can be about 90% certain how the muscles are going to lie. Where is the largest bundle of muscles? Where does she look weakest? Lets look at some pictures.  This horse is a dressage prospect. Look at his neck and topline. See where the muscular definition lies? The muscles are heavily developed along the top of the neck, and there is little definition along the bottom. The muscles along the bottom of the neck are the "pulling" muscles, they're the ones that allow her to yank the reins out of your hands and pull you out of your seat. The topline muscles are the carrying muscles. Those are the ones that allow a horse to lift their shoulder and move in balance with a soft and supple back.  Here's another one. The definition is not as apparent because he's not being flexed for a pose, but you can definitely see where the muscle is more developed along the crest and the topline. This is Idocus. He's a very pretty boy with some very nice muscling.  Here you can see him in work and you can see how those muscles are used to help carry him.  This horse has a ewe neck, or an "upside down" neck. You can see how the muscular definition is mostly on the underside of the neck. This allows the horse to carry their head higher and hollow their back while pulling like hell and bracing against you.  a less severe example, but you can still see the poor muscle definition. It's a lot harder to find horses with bad conformation that don't look beaten and abused. The nice thing about a ewe neck, is that, for the most part, it's correctable with proper training, conditioning and development. These horses may never be Olympic dressage horses, but that's okay. They can still improve their muscle definition and become better riding horses, more pleasurable for both the horse and the rider. There are LOTS of gadgets and training aids available to help you "get the head down". Some of these products are better than others. NONE of them should EVER be used without the direct supervision of an experienced and knowledgeable professional. It is very easy to do serious damage to your horse by not adjusting or using these devices correctly. Lunging in a side reins is often a key component in conditioning for me as it helps the horse develop the muscles that they need in order to carry themselves and respond to my aids. It is not EVER a substitute for good, solid training and it should NEVER be seen as a "shortcut". Different people have strong opinions about different items. I am very strongly opposed to draw reins, myself, because I have seen them so frequently abused, but I do know people who can use them effectively in the right circumstances. But I can name at least four horses off the top of my head who were ruined by the improper use of draw reins. The same can be said about any training aid (although draw reins are the ones that I see most often abused and most often ruining horses) which is why it is ESSENTIAL to not experiment on your own! The other thing that can help with this is the bending and suppling exercises. As they get the horse to release tension in the back, they will naturally stretch their head and neck down. This is NOT the same as the horse ripping the reins out of your hands and "rooting" or "diving" their head down.  Here is a horse correctly stretching down into the contact. I saw Ruby grab the reins and dive a few times in the video you posted, so I think you know what I mean when I say that. Okay, what else did I need to talk about? Or right, the one-rein stop. If you have her where she can flex easily at the halt, awesome! You're going to do the exact same thing at the walk, but make sure that you have NO LEG on her at all. This will be a test of your balance as she spins in a little circle. She will do this at first. Be persistent. You want her to know that this means "stop now". Keep the pressure even and consistent. Horses look for ways to get out of pressure and relieve it. When she realizes that spinning isn't working, she'll try something else. As soon as she tries "Stop and soften my neck" as a possible answer, drop the rein, thus releasing the pressure and tell her what a wonderful brilliant perfect mare she is. Then repeat. Depending on how stubborn she is, it might take a while before she gets it. Don't try it at the trot until you have it perfected at the walk. And like I said, don't practice it at the canter. It won't be a smooth transition from the canter, it will be your emergency brake when you NEED to stop because you're in danger. Out of curiosity, have you tried riding her in the open? I know this might sound crazy... but Corky was horribly ring sour. He would be bracey run away and ignore my aids a lot more in the ring, and we would have to take a good 30 minutes of steady, easy warm up before I could have him in a place where he could easily work. But if I took my "crazy" horse out in the field, we'd have a perfect ride every time. Usually better if we were bareback because he wasn't associating it with work. May not work for her, but it's something to think about. Something as simple as removing the stirrups from the saddle made all of the difference with him, but he was kind of a special child. Am I forgetting anything? Any other questions? Have I completely confused anyone? I sometimes think that my thoughts end up incomplete on these because I get distracted by another idea that I think is also important.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:38 pm
LoveIsForever22 iRoseThorn_xXx 1.) I'm only nervous when I canter her. And I don't canter her often. The video was the first time I had cantered in probably a year or just slightly less. Honestly, I've gone through so much with this horse that I'm the ONLY ONE who can get on her back without her having a hissy fit.I can tell you right now, I feel your pain. My trainer has a Quarter pony mare and she is a PAIN IN THE a**. I will admit, she is much worse than your horse and your horse is an Arab mare. Your pony is an angel compared to mine. I too, am the only one that can ride her, because I'm the only one that has the patience. So, even if you haven't cantered in awhile, you still have to work up to it. It isn't so much that no one else has the patience, it's just the fact that if anyone else tries to ride her they give her bad comands and crap. My dad thinks he's a cowboy and tries to ride with one hand.That still involves patience to be able to ride her in a style that you know is fit for HER. I think that is very admirable. *smiles*2.) As I said, I was never taught which diaganol to trot on. I'm trying to keep it in my head to rise with the outside. Right?Correct!3.) Mkay, I can understand how that would keep her head up. But she isn't, nor has she ever been head shy. She was at one point refusing the bit (When I first got her) because she was abused and didn't want her ear touched. She'd been tied by her ears. Anyway, I'll lower my hands.We said that she can BECOME head shy, if the bit is being pulled too much or if there is too much tension through the hands and arms. My pony I am training (mentioned in answer 1), was also tied by the ears and I have a hell of a time getting the crown piece over her ears and then that spooks her and gets her riled up and then my ride will be all over the place. With a horse like that, I would do A LOT of trotting as a warm-up until you can trot her at a steady, forward pace, with the reins lose and held only at the buckle.It took me about a year to get her over having her ears touched, but she's still flinchy if you poke the inside of her ear. She used to throw her head every time I even touched near her ears. And she wouldn't let me put on the bridle without a TON of trouble. But she's perfectly fine with letting me get it on her now and it doesn't seem to be a problem anymore.It is so annoying isn't it?? I think it is terrible that people tie and twitch horses by the ears! It just makes everything else so time consuming when you first start the training. It is so ridiculous! But great job on getting her over it, that shows she loves and respects you very much. You have no idea how many people tried to get the pony I am training (her name is Hannah -_- I'm getting tired of typing 'pony I'm training', LoL.), over her ear sensitivity. I was the only one who managed. So, congrats! I know it is hard and frusterating, but it is the things we do for these gorgeous majestic creatures4.) I've been working on my seat for as long as I've owned her. She is the hardest horse to work with simply BECAUSE all she wants to do is go fast. Read above answer. A lot of hard trotting and firm halfhalts should help your pony learn a steady pace. And if she is smooth enough, try a good 30 minutes of sitting-trot.5.) Before giving the aid to canter, you must SIT three strong beats, preferably using your back a potential halfhalt to, three beats are minimum, but as our training, our trainer made us go over an hour lesson ONLY sitting trot, NO posting. 6.) Okay. How do you expect me to get her head down, when I've had her for 5 years and her head has dropped.. five times while I was riding? Throughout the course of the 5 years? I'm exadurating, but it's true that she does not drop her head very easily. I'm aware that her head needs to be down, but it really isn't as easy as you expect it to be. I try to make the adjustments, and it only makes her crazy. We were only trying to help and we are sorry if that came out rudely on our part. We understand. The aforementioned pony I am training is the EXACT same way. I would try the advice I gave on 3.). Having a light hand and lose reins (WITH CONTROL) will always presuade them to reach their head down. Once they do, don't try cantering. Just keep in the same, steady trot for another 10-15 minutes or so. After this is becoming a habit, try gathering up the reins inch by inch for more of a collection through the neck muscles.I know you're trying to help, just some of your answers seemed kind of rude and sounded like I was the complete problem. I don't plan to canter anytime soon, so don't worry. I'll try that, and thanks.I will admit, a horse's performance is based a lot on what the rider is telling them to do, but granted, if your horse was never properly trained before you got her, most issues will be HER, but they won't get better if the rider doesn't know how to solve them. But it's obvious you know what to do and that you are commited, you just need some reassurance. We all go through that.7.) First of all, I don't kick her into it. I barely give her any pressure with my legs when I ride. I NEVER kick her. Ever. 'Assuming I have gotten her head under control'? I'm sorry, your critique is fine and dandy, but you're very discouraging. If I use a whip, no matter how light the tap is, how little I use it.. Ruby will explode. I have used that kind of aid before, my old trainer was a dressage trainer, and it does NOT work with her. I don't know why people expect it to work with her when all it does is make her worse.We did not mean "kick" or "beating". Sorry again. We just meant that you should not use hard persuasion. Again, my pony does not like the whip. I find that giving her a strong, over-corrected canter aid from the collected TROT works well. What we meant by her head being under control, is that is should be down and calm. If you don't want to use a whip, don't. Try using many methods and see what works best.8.) Did you think that I told her to suddenly change direction? (I know they're cavaletti's btw) I didn't tell her to change! She did it herself, and I was trying to keep her from doing it!Again, sorry for the apparent rudeness. Anyway, even if your horse did change her direction on her own, you should have have pulled her back around through the jumps and continued your ground work on that side of the jumps, NOT letting her do it again, until she got the picture. I know that having a horse that is so fidgety and unpredictable can be tough, but those are the horses that need the most bossing around. Don't be afraid to get rough and tell her how it is done. But always give her a lot of praise if she does something right, even as simple as turning her ears back to hear your voice.See, the problem with my corrections is that when I try to turn her again, she lurches forward, and because of the low fencing, she jumps and freaks out even more. But I can understand making sure she doesn't do it again. She is definitely a horse that needs constant reassurance and reinforcement.I can see how that would be an issue. At this point, I would recommend this: When she gets away with something you don't approve of, instead of whipping her back around, stop her abruptly and turn her around, and try agn. This might be a better method for a horse that doesn't take punishment easily.9.) I realize that the arena is dressage show material, but I don't ride dressage. Don't say that the horse could care less about the fence. You don't know my horse. Ruby has taken me out of that arena so many times just at a trot. And I honestly don't care about how you can get your horse in a field with no fences. I can't do that. And I know I'll be able to do it. Eventually.I have never known a horse to care about the height of an arena fence. What bothered me is that you let your horse do something so entirely rude and let her get away with it. I don't care how many times you have purposely let her trot over fence out of the arena, it is still bad manners, Dressage or not.I don't think it's that she cares about it, but it's that I care about it. It's one of the reasons I hate riding in there, because she tries to get out of it so much. I try not to let her, and I don't let her walk over it to get out. and she doesn't do it often anymore. The first time I started riding in it she did quite a bit. It's mainly only when I'm going Clockwise, because she seems to have the worst time going that way.Ohhh! Okay, I thouht you were fine with personally, you just didn't like it because the horse didn't. Okay, I gotcha now, sorry! *nervous smile* Well, since the fence is so low, you could try riding her out of an arena. That way, you can also practice keeping control because you won't have physical boundries, only mental ones. Agn, sorry for any rudeness, we were only trying to help you out. I have been through this and the pony I am training is SO MUCH like your Arab, I think maybe I could help. But I will try not to be snooty about it, that was NEVER my first intention anyway.Don't worry about it. I've just gotten so much critisism when I ride Ruby, and so many people think that I'm just a horrible rider when I know that isn't the case. It's an effort me and Ruby have to make as a pair. (Still, we've come a long way since I first started riding her.)I'm not trying to critisize you at all! I know it came off that way, I'm sure and I am very sorry about that. I am just used ot my trainer. If we made a mistake, she would curse at us in German, so I'm used to harsh critisism. I do not think you are a bad rider and I don't know how much experience you have, but if you are willing to ask for help, willing to keep trying, and willing to actually use advice others give you, that only makes you a better rider and shows how commited and determined you are, and it's only up from her.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:53 pm
iRoseThorn_xXx LoveIsForever22 iRoseThorn_xXx 1.) I'm only nervous when I canter her. And I don't canter her often. The video was the first time I had cantered in probably a year or just slightly less. Honestly, I've gone through so much with this horse that I'm the ONLY ONE who can get on her back without her having a hissy fit.I can tell you right now, I feel your pain. My trainer has a Quarter pony mare and she is a PAIN IN THE a**. I will admit, she is much worse than your horse and your horse is an Arab mare. Your pony is an angel compared to mine. I too, am the only one that can ride her, because I'm the only one that has the patience. So, even if you haven't cantered in awhile, you still have to work up to it. It isn't so much that no one else has the patience, it's just the fact that if anyone else tries to ride her they give her bad comands and crap. My dad thinks he's a cowboy and tries to ride with one hand.That still involves patience to be able to ride her in a style that you know is fit for HER. I think that is very admirable. *smiles*I guess you're right. ^^2.) As I said, I was never taught which diaganol to trot on. I'm trying to keep it in my head to rise with the outside. Right?Correct!3.) Mkay, I can understand how that would keep her head up. But she isn't, nor has she ever been head shy. She was at one point refusing the bit (When I first got her) because she was abused and didn't want her ear touched. She'd been tied by her ears. Anyway, I'll lower my hands.We said that she can BECOME head shy, if the bit is being pulled too much or if there is too much tension through the hands and arms. My pony I am training (mentioned in answer 1), was also tied by the ears and I have a hell of a time getting the crown piece over her ears and then that spooks her and gets her riled up and then my ride will be all over the place. With a horse like that, I would do A LOT of trotting as a warm-up until you can trot her at a steady, forward pace, with the reins lose and held only at the buckle.It took me about a year to get her over having her ears touched, but she's still flinchy if you poke the inside of her ear. She used to throw her head every time I even touched near her ears. And she wouldn't let me put on the bridle without a TON of trouble. But she's perfectly fine with letting me get it on her now and it doesn't seem to be a problem anymore.It is so annoying isn't it?? I think it is terrible that people tie and twitch horses by the ears! It just makes everything else so time consuming when you first start the training. It is so ridiculous! But great job on getting her over it, that shows she loves and respects you very much. You have no idea how many people tried to get the pony I am training (her name is Hannah -_- I'm getting tired of typing 'pony I'm training', LoL.), over her ear sensitivity. I was the only one who managed. So, congrats! I know it is hard and frusterating, but it is the things we do for these gorgeous majestic creaturesIt really is! Gosh, when I first started riding her I was still riding Western, and if I wanted to go riding it would take me about an hour just to get her bridle over her head. I can't believe people do that to their horses. I think that was her... okay, not the previous owner, but the one who owned her before that. He would tie her by her ears so he could buzz the bridle path. Anyway, it was really tedious work. I forget what got her over it actually, it was so long ago, but I think I spent some time just massaging her neck right under her ears. (Hannah is such a cute name btw ^^) Yeah, congrats on your part too. I felt so bad when I tried to get the bridle on her and she would roll her eyes back.. she was absolutely terrified.4.) I've been working on my seat for as long as I've owned her. She is the hardest horse to work with simply BECAUSE all she wants to do is go fast. Read above answer. A lot of hard trotting and firm halfhalts should help your pony learn a steady pace. And if she is smooth enough, try a good 30 minutes of sitting-trot.5.) Before giving the aid to canter, you must SIT three strong beats, preferably using your back a potential halfhalt to, three beats are minimum, but as our training, our trainer made us go over an hour lesson ONLY sitting trot, NO posting. 6.) Okay. How do you expect me to get her head down, when I've had her for 5 years and her head has dropped.. five times while I was riding? Throughout the course of the 5 years? I'm exadurating, but it's true that she does not drop her head very easily. I'm aware that her head needs to be down, but it really isn't as easy as you expect it to be. I try to make the adjustments, and it only makes her crazy. We were only trying to help and we are sorry if that came out rudely on our part. We understand. The aforementioned pony I am training is the EXACT same way. I would try the advice I gave on 3.). Having a light hand and lose reins (WITH CONTROL) will always presuade them to reach their head down. Once they do, don't try cantering. Just keep in the same, steady trot for another 10-15 minutes or so. After this is becoming a habit, try gathering up the reins inch by inch for more of a collection through the neck muscles.I know you're trying to help, just some of your answers seemed kind of rude and sounded like I was the complete problem. I don't plan to canter anytime soon, so don't worry. I'll try that, and thanks.I will admit, a horse's performance is based a lot on what the rider is telling them to do, but granted, if your horse was never properly trained before you got her, most issues will be HER, but they won't get better if the rider doesn't know how to solve them. But it's obvious you know what to do and that you are commited, you just need some reassurance. We all go through that.She was trained a few ways I think. The owner that tied her ears rode her as a cutting horse. He was a big husky cowboy man. >.< And the owner that we bought her from. (Omg we spend $1,500 on her only. She's now worth quite a bit more.) She taught her with Parelli and rode her as an endurance racer. So that might be some of the problem, but I don't really know. 7.) First of all, I don't kick her into it. I barely give her any pressure with my legs when I ride. I NEVER kick her. Ever. 'Assuming I have gotten her head under control'? I'm sorry, your critique is fine and dandy, but you're very discouraging. If I use a whip, no matter how light the tap is, how little I use it.. Ruby will explode. I have used that kind of aid before, my old trainer was a dressage trainer, and it does NOT work with her. I don't know why people expect it to work with her when all it does is make her worse.We did not mean "kick" or "beating". Sorry again. We just meant that you should not use hard persuasion. Again, my pony does not like the whip. I find that giving her a strong, over-corrected canter aid from the collected TROT works well. What we meant by her head being under control, is that is should be down and calm. If you don't want to use a whip, don't. Try using many methods and see what works best.8.) Did you think that I told her to suddenly change direction? (I know they're cavaletti's btw) I didn't tell her to change! She did it herself, and I was trying to keep her from doing it!Again, sorry for the apparent rudeness. Anyway, even if your horse did change her direction on her own, you should have have pulled her back around through the jumps and continued your ground work on that side of the jumps, NOT letting her do it again, until she got the picture. I know that having a horse that is so fidgety and unpredictable can be tough, but those are the horses that need the most bossing around. Don't be afraid to get rough and tell her how it is done. But always give her a lot of praise if she does something right, even as simple as turning her ears back to hear your voice.See, the problem with my corrections is that when I try to turn her again, she lurches forward, and because of the low fencing, she jumps and freaks out even more. But I can understand making sure she doesn't do it again. She is definitely a horse that needs constant reassurance and reinforcement.I can see how that would be an issue. At this point, I would recommend this: When she gets away with something you don't approve of, instead of whipping her back around, stop her abruptly and turn her around, and try agn. This might be a better method for a horse that doesn't take punishment easily.Alright, I'll definitely try that. I think it could work better. 9.) I realize that the arena is dressage show material, but I don't ride dressage. Don't say that the horse could care less about the fence. You don't know my horse. Ruby has taken me out of that arena so many times just at a trot. And I honestly don't care about how you can get your horse in a field with no fences. I can't do that. And I know I'll be able to do it. Eventually.I have never known a horse to care about the height of an arena fence. What bothered me is that you let your horse do something so entirely rude and let her get away with it. I don't care how many times you have purposely let her trot over fence out of the arena, it is still bad manners, Dressage or not.I don't think it's that she cares about it, but it's that I care about it. It's one of the reasons I hate riding in there, because she tries to get out of it so much. I try not to let her, and I don't let her walk over it to get out. and she doesn't do it often anymore. The first time I started riding in it she did quite a bit. It's mainly only when I'm going Clockwise, because she seems to have the worst time going that way.Ohhh! Okay, I thouht you were fine with personally, you just didn't like it because the horse didn't. Okay, I gotcha now, sorry! *nervous smile* Well, since the fence is so low, you could try riding her out of an arena. That way, you can also practice keeping control because you won't have physical boundries, only mental ones.No problem! We have a few arenas, and we have pastures, I just don't feel safe in any of them because the pastures all have barbed wire on them. But of course, they're big so that might not be an issue. And the other ring is just.. horrible. >.< But I'll try a pasture and see if that might work. ^^ Agn, sorry for any rudeness, we were only trying to help you out. I have been through this and the pony I am training is SO MUCH like your Arab, I think maybe I could help. But I will try not to be snooty about it, that was NEVER my first intention anyway.Don't worry about it. I've just gotten so much critisism when I ride Ruby, and so many people think that I'm just a horrible rider when I know that isn't the case. It's an effort me and Ruby have to make as a pair. (Still, we've come a long way since I first started riding her.)I'm not trying to critisize you at all! I know it came off that way, I'm sure and I am very sorry about that. I am just used ot my trainer. If we made a mistake, she would curse at us in German, so I'm used to harsh critisism. I do not think you are a bad rider and I don't know how much experience you have, but if you are willing to ask for help, willing to keep trying, and willing to actually use advice others give you, that only makes you a better rider and shows how commited and determined you are, and it's only up from her.No no! I didn't mean that you were criticising me. Not at all. I just meant that many people in general have been criticising me. My parents, other riders, ect and your suggestions sounded a lot like criticism. >< But I understand where you're coming from. My old trainer was German too. But she was such a sweetie. I started crying once during a lesson because ruby had nearly thrown me into a tree, and she was like "Don't cry! I'll start crying if you cry!" Haha. But yeah, I just want the best for Miss Ruby because, though I don't plan on doing much showing, I do want her to be a good horse.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:13 pm
Aria- I'm too lazy to quote your post.
But your advice is GREATLY appriciated, and I will try everything you've suggested. I do see how the muscles are supposed to look. Ruby I think has the 'backwards' neck. That's what my old trainer said, kind of. Her neck muscles are mainly at the bottom, which is wrong? I haven't really looked at her muscles all that much.
One rein stop- Okay, I get the walking part now. That makes a lot of sense. And I'm definitly going to work on it the next time I'm out riding, which should be soon if the rain clears up.
I think I have ridden her in the open before, but I was so nervous that it was very unenjoyable. I've probably done it at shows and such, but not actual work or pleasure riding out in the open. I have however, brought her over to my house and ridden around the neighborhood since the ranch she's at is only like an eight of a mile from our house. We have some pastures, as I said, that I can try riding in. but they're usually used for Clark's cows, so I have to see about when it's all right.
And no, I think you've gotten your points straight and I understand all of it. I have to go look back on my previous threads and get that info. you gave me before. ^^ Thank you guys so much!
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:15 pm
Forgive me, but that post had to go buh baii! It was getting too long and cluttered. ^-^ Anyway, as a reply, I think you will go far as a trainer for Ruby. Sometimes, our fear gets the best of us because it is easier to feel than courage is, and when fear takes us over, we forget things that we know we can do. We just panic and sometimes, freeze; mentally anyway. I used to be like that with Hannah, but the first time she through me off (she was so abused from her previous owner, that she will start rearing and ducking out form under you if you get her ANYWHERE near a cavaletti; it's pathetic; I'll get a video of us working soon), I was so mad and embarrassed (first time she threw me off was 7 months ago), I have not let her throw me off again. I am not too big into showing either, but my horse Mario (see sig.), was for sale and the people who were going ot buy him broke his ankle and it will take 6 months of therapy to be good agn, but they screwed him up so badly, the damage will be somewhat permanate so I'm basically out a PERFECT eventing horse. -_- I cried when I was told the news. I love my baby... 5 years and it comes to this... Sorry, this is an emotional topic for me *shuts up*
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:45 pm
Haha don't worry about it. I just found it easier than trying to refer back to everything. But yeah, too big and too cluttered. ^^
I think that you're right about the fear thing. I think my seating has changed dramatically, because when I was leasing a horse named Buzz (Buzzard was his full name.) my seat was pretty much perfect. I didn't move around a whole lot, and though I was probably posting the wrong diagonal, trotting him was far easier and less tramatizing than it is with Ruby. Anyway, I guess you learn from your horse, both good habits and bad.
Ruby never actually threw me off before, but when I first tried to canter her in that ring the saddle twisted quite a bit and my leg flew out of it. I was lucky not to be dragged around the ring or killed even, but I nearly broke my upper leg and I could have broken a few ribs if I had landed different, or on the log that was far too close for comfort. Anyway, I was pretty freaked out after that incident, but that was three years ago and I haven't gotten too much damage since. As my first lesson trainer would say.. "I earned my cowgirl wings!" Haha. ^^ I have fallen from her though. (Just a month ago I was trotting and as we turned, one of the horses in the field next to us spooked at something and took off at a gallop across the field. Ruby freaked a bit and skittered around. Turns out the saddle was WAY too loose, and I did a tumble. But i was laughing, because I had landed perfectly and unharmed. It was really hilarious. Wish my dad caught it on film.
Mario is absolutely STUNNING. It's a shame that he was pretty much ruined that way. Poor boy. :[ That's horrible. If I may ask, what happened that broke his ankle?
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:26 pm
LoveIsForever22 Haha don't worry about it. I just found it easier than trying to refer back to everything. But yeah, too big and too cluttered. ^^ I think that you're right about the fear thing. I think my seating has changed dramatically, because when I was leasing a horse named Buzz (Buzzard was his full name.) my seat was pretty much perfect. I didn't move around a whole lot, and though I was probably posting the wrong diagonal, trotting him was far easier and less tramatizing than it is with Ruby. Anyway, I guess you learn from your horse, both good habits and bad. Ruby never actually threw me off before, but when I first tried to canter her in that ring the saddle twisted quite a bit and my leg flew out of it. I was lucky not to be dragged around the ring or killed even, but I nearly broke my upper leg and I could have broken a few ribs if I had landed different, or on the log that was far too close for comfort. Anyway, I was pretty freaked out after that incident, but that was three years ago and I haven't gotten too much damage since. As my first lesson trainer would say.. "I earned my cowgirl wings!" Haha. ^^ I have fallen from her though. (Just a month ago I was trotting and as we turned, one of the horses in the field next to us spooked at something and took off at a gallop across the field. Ruby freaked a bit and skittered around. Turns out the saddle was WAY too loose, and I did a tumble. But i was laughing, because I had landed perfectly and unharmed. It was really hilarious. Wish my dad caught it on film. Mario is absolutely STUNNING. It's a shame that he was pretty much ruined that way. Poor boy. :[ That's horrible. If I may ask, what happened that broke his ankle? The incident with Mario is what has made me so entirely picky with cantering.... So, the potential buyers were going to sign the buyers form that day, but they were doing a last ride. Well...they were cantering him in a 20 meter circle and the reins were too lose so his head went way down and they were forgetting to give him halfhalts so with no halfhalts and a lose rein he was just going faster and faster and faster and they had to turn him tighter so he would stay in the meter circle at such a pace and then next thing you know, they twisted him too hard and too fast a pace and then BOOM! He was lame. Unusable for 4 months, 6 months therapy and still never going to be the same. And thank you. I take much pride in our jumping. I hate Dressage to death and I refuse to ever do Dressage with him. He is FABULOUS at it, but I'm not. But I'm training to get to Advanced jumping. Like the high Stadium jumps you see on TV. I train for that.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:35 am
iRoseThorn_xXx LoveIsForever22 Haha don't worry about it. I just found it easier than trying to refer back to everything. But yeah, too big and too cluttered. ^^ I think that you're right about the fear thing. I think my seating has changed dramatically, because when I was leasing a horse named Buzz (Buzzard was his full name.) my seat was pretty much perfect. I didn't move around a whole lot, and though I was probably posting the wrong diagonal, trotting him was far easier and less tramatizing than it is with Ruby. Anyway, I guess you learn from your horse, both good habits and bad. Ruby never actually threw me off before, but when I first tried to canter her in that ring the saddle twisted quite a bit and my leg flew out of it. I was lucky not to be dragged around the ring or killed even, but I nearly broke my upper leg and I could have broken a few ribs if I had landed different, or on the log that was far too close for comfort. Anyway, I was pretty freaked out after that incident, but that was three years ago and I haven't gotten too much damage since. As my first lesson trainer would say.. "I earned my cowgirl wings!" Haha. ^^ I have fallen from her though. (Just a month ago I was trotting and as we turned, one of the horses in the field next to us spooked at something and took off at a gallop across the field. Ruby freaked a bit and skittered around. Turns out the saddle was WAY too loose, and I did a tumble. But i was laughing, because I had landed perfectly and unharmed. It was really hilarious. Wish my dad caught it on film. Mario is absolutely STUNNING. It's a shame that he was pretty much ruined that way. Poor boy. :[ That's horrible. If I may ask, what happened that broke his ankle? The incident with Mario is what has made me so entirely picky with cantering.... So, the potential buyers were going to sign the buyers form that day, but they were doing a last ride. Well...they were cantering him in a 20 meter circle and the reins were too lose so his head went way down and they were forgetting to give him halfhalts so with no halfhalts and a lose rein he was just going faster and faster and faster and they had to turn him tighter so he would stay in the meter circle at such a pace and then next thing you know, they twisted him too hard and too fast a pace and then BOOM! He was lame. Unusable for 4 months, 6 months therapy and still never going to be the same. And thank you. I take much pride in our jumping. I hate Dressage to death and I refuse to ever do Dressage with him. He is FABULOUS at it, but I'm not. But I'm training to get to Advanced jumping. Like the high Stadium jumps you see on TV. I train for that. Oh that poor baby. D: That's just terrible. I can see now why you're so picky about how people canter their horses. I'm very sorry to hear that. :[ I've never actually jumped more than a trot over one of the cavalettis. My parents and I had been talking (Quite a while ago) about looking for a new horse to ride, since at the time I really loved showing and every time I took Ruby it would end with me getting first and second in teh trail classes, and getting insulted when I rode the walk/trot classes. Then of course when I turned 13, they told me that I HAD to do walk/trot/canter and I didn't want to. (I had tried to do one of the schooling walk/trot/canter classes and nearly ran over the judge....) So now at shows I have to do walk/walk and the 'fun classes' and trail classes. Anyway! We had thought about getting another horse so I could ride in shows and maybe try to do some eventing, but we can't/couldn't afford it. (Had almost bought this GORGEOUS standardbred mare who was absolutely a dream to ride. She was 'free', but then the stupid owner decided that she was going to keep her. >.>) But that sucks anyway. :[ (Got to go snake ruby now. She's choking... again....)
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:13 am
LoveIsForever22 iRoseThorn_xXx LoveIsForever22 Haha don't worry about it. I just found it easier than trying to refer back to everything. But yeah, too big and too cluttered. ^^ I think that you're right about the fear thing. I think my seating has changed dramatically, because when I was leasing a horse named Buzz (Buzzard was his full name.) my seat was pretty much perfect. I didn't move around a whole lot, and though I was probably posting the wrong diagonal, trotting him was far easier and less tramatizing than it is with Ruby. Anyway, I guess you learn from your horse, both good habits and bad. Ruby never actually threw me off before, but when I first tried to canter her in that ring the saddle twisted quite a bit and my leg flew out of it. I was lucky not to be dragged around the ring or killed even, but I nearly broke my upper leg and I could have broken a few ribs if I had landed different, or on the log that was far too close for comfort. Anyway, I was pretty freaked out after that incident, but that was three years ago and I haven't gotten too much damage since. As my first lesson trainer would say.. "I earned my cowgirl wings!" Haha. ^^ I have fallen from her though. (Just a month ago I was trotting and as we turned, one of the horses in the field next to us spooked at something and took off at a gallop across the field. Ruby freaked a bit and skittered around. Turns out the saddle was WAY too loose, and I did a tumble. But i was laughing, because I had landed perfectly and unharmed. It was really hilarious. Wish my dad caught it on film. Mario is absolutely STUNNING. It's a shame that he was pretty much ruined that way. Poor boy. :[ That's horrible. If I may ask, what happened that broke his ankle? The incident with Mario is what has made me so entirely picky with cantering.... So, the potential buyers were going to sign the buyers form that day, but they were doing a last ride. Well...they were cantering him in a 20 meter circle and the reins were too lose so his head went way down and they were forgetting to give him halfhalts so with no halfhalts and a lose rein he was just going faster and faster and faster and they had to turn him tighter so he would stay in the meter circle at such a pace and then next thing you know, they twisted him too hard and too fast a pace and then BOOM! He was lame. Unusable for 4 months, 6 months therapy and still never going to be the same. And thank you. I take much pride in our jumping. I hate Dressage to death and I refuse to ever do Dressage with him. He is FABULOUS at it, but I'm not. But I'm training to get to Advanced jumping. Like the high Stadium jumps you see on TV. I train for that. Oh that poor baby. D: That's just terrible. I can see now why you're so picky about how people canter their horses. I'm very sorry to hear that. :[ I've never actually jumped more than a trot over one of the cavalettis. My parents and I had been talking (Quite a while ago) about looking for a new horse to ride, since at the time I really loved showing and every time I took Ruby it would end with me getting first and second in teh trail classes, and getting insulted when I rode the walk/trot classes. Then of course when I turned 13, they told me that I HAD to do walk/trot/canter and I didn't want to. (I had tried to do one of the schooling walk/trot/canter classes and nearly ran over the judge....) So now at shows I have to do walk/walk and the 'fun classes' and trail classes. Anyway! We had thought about getting another horse so I could ride in shows and maybe try to do some eventing, but we can't/couldn't afford it. (Had almost bought this GORGEOUS standardbred mare who was absolutely a dream to ride. She was 'free', but then the stupid owner decided that she was going to keep her. >.>) But that sucks anyway. :[ (Got to go snake ruby now. She's choking... again....) I really hate to cut you short, but all of the barn members are getting together in a few hours and meeting at our barn for a huge sleepover and ride-day. So, I really hope Ruby does alright (give her a treat for me), and I will have to talk to you some time tomorrow night. Bye!
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:58 pm
All my commentary is in blue iRoseThorn_xXx 2.) You need to learn your leads. The first direction you were trotting in, you were posting on the wrong diaganol. This does not only confuse the horse, but it can hurt their back. First, you spelled "diagonal" wrong and therefore, don't get to criticize. Also, LEADS are different from DIAGONALS. Leads are for the canter, diagonals are for the trot. And for the record, in the dressage world, you are on the correct posting diagonal when you RISE WHEN THE OUTSIDE LEG GOES FORWARD. OUTSIDE FORWARD RISE. 8.) DANGER!!!! AH!!! We saw you cantering and then suddenly change direction through the cavaletti's (poles on ground), and this can seriously ruin your horse. You can never do this (unless you have advanced skills), without your horse being flexed, supple, and understanding through the neck. Not to mention, UNDER CONTROL. And knowing what you're doing as a pair, horse and rider. DANGER!!!! AH!!! Please note that there's a difference between cavaletti and poles on the ground. Cavaletti are foot high poles on boxes or Xs which can be used at 3 different heights to assist in varying degrees of training. Poles on the ground are self explanatory. Get your terminology right before you criticize people. 9.) The arena is no problem. The low fencing is typical dressage show material, and you will ALWAYS find this. The horse could care less about fence or no fence. We rode our untrained horses in a OPEN field (no fences whatsoever) in 20 meter circles BAREBACK. We know that this sounds like we're boasting, but it's possible. My other horse, a Quarter Pony blind in one eye, didn't know left from right when I first got her. She was literally un-rideable, but I trained her bareback in the open fields until she got the picture. She now can canter from a calm walk instead of rushing and she can successfully keep her canter smooth and flowing. I know you can do it, trust me- my horse was worse. Even on her best day she was absolutely HORRIBLE!! Yeah, if they're untrained, you're not gonna be on them.... And boasting is what this is. 10.) TO STARGAZER42: DO NOT TELL HER TO DROP THE REINS AND LET THE HORSE FALL ON HER FACE!!!!!!!!!!!! We know that dropping the reins works on most horses, but for this horse, its not a matter of leaning on the hands! She has no contact in the hands, which is ruining the horse and the rider's style. By dropping the reins, if dropped too fast, the horse can scrape up their face, make them head-shy, possibly break a jawbone, etc.! If dropped too slow, skin near the mouth will rip and other injuries will also occur. The rein-dropping is a tad too risky. The rein dropping is NOT just throw your reins on your horse's neck and run around like an idiot, it's a careful give and take to test the horse's self carriage. It encourages the horse to seek the contact and more readily accept it. It's not really dropping them on their face, it's a controlled release to test your horse.
And for the record, through your entire post you sounded rude, arrogant and very know-it-all-ish. Nobody needs that kind of negativity. It takes a lot of courage to put yourself up on the internet and ask people to critique you. It also shows that you are a better rider. So, please, no more negative posts. Thank you.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|