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 Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:42 pm
Vajapocalypse emo We're going serious now? I sense the female overlord at work *looks at Cleo* Trolling grates on you a little, especially when it degenerates into NO U.
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:51 pm
Valheita (For the sake of discussion, this is going to be one sided, unreasonable, and borderline troll like. Please know that I am more reasonable)| *Tries very, very hard to remember this and forget that you ever made this thread* >.< kgjlkfjdlkkdjklj I don't think I'm capable of actually posting here without breaking all the rules. xp
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:54 pm
Little Miss Fortune Valheita (For the sake of discussion, this is going to be one sided, unreasonable, and borderline troll like. Please know that I am more reasonable)| *Tries very, very hard to remember this and forget that you ever made this thread* >.< kgjlkfjdlkkdjklj I don't think I'm capable of actually posting here without breaking all the rules. xp This thread actually came from a discussion with my girlfriend last night. My point then, was that while we're equivalent, we're not equal, and it's foolish to treat us as such. There are things that a female is better at, and things that a male is better at. To treat us as equals is to ignore that and assume we're exactly the same.
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:59 pm
Valheita Little Miss Fortune Valheita (For the sake of discussion, this is going to be one sided, unreasonable, and borderline troll like. Please know that I am more reasonable)| *Tries very, very hard to remember this and forget that you ever made this thread* >.< kgjlkfjdlkkdjklj I don't think I'm capable of actually posting here without breaking all the rules. xp This thread actually came from a discussion with my girlfriend last night. My point then, was that while we're equivalent, we're not equal, and it's foolish to treat us as such. There are things that a female is better at, and things that a male is better at. To treat us as equals is to ignore that and assume we're exactly the same. Hardly any of those differences are absolutes, though. So instead of saying "men should get paid less because they're mentally/emotionally inferior" (or whatever it was that Vaja said), it should be more like "people who are mentally/emotionally inferior should be paid less, whether they happen to be men or women." I don't like gender stereotypes, so unless it's a physical difference or something like that, I'm going to disagree with it. And as for the pregnancy issue in the first post, not all women choose to have children. I'd be pretty pissed if I got paid less because I was capable of being impregnated. confused
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:06 pm
Little Miss Fortune Hardly any of those differences are absolutes, though. So instead of saying "men should get paid less because they're mentally/emotionally inferior" (or whatever it was that Vaja said), it should be more like "people who are mentally/emotionally inferior should be paid less, whether they happen to be men or women." I don't like gender stereotypes, so unless it's a physical difference or something like that, I'm going to disagree with it. And as for the pregnancy issue in the first post, not all women choose to have children. I'd be pretty pissed if I got paid less because I was capable of being impregnated. confused Now, define gender stereotypes. One could argue that it's a gender stereotype that males are better at spatial manipulation than females. On the other hand, it's very well shown in experimental tests. Much like males being on average stronger physically, and more prone to making rash decisions. It's well and good to say stereotypes are dislikable, but they can't be dismissed. Often they come from somewhere, and have very valid points. I'd say that it's perfectly reasonable. 3 months is a long time to have to pay someone and not get any work out of them. It's harsh, but it's a reality that not all businesses can afford to take that risk. In an ideal world, where everyone was intelligent and used protection, sure. It's unfair to get paid less than someone else because you're fertile.
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:09 pm
This is my opinion:
You get payed for how well you work
NO matter if you're male, female, black, white, asian, cocasian, martian, proxima centauran, or anything else, you get payed based on how well you work.
Females, the stereotype, shows that they are more emotional than men, while men are tougher, more logical.
But that's not true, everyone fights with these, and maybe it's the status quo that makes women more emotional than men.
Of course, some jobs women SHOULDN'T have, and men SHOULDN'T have, because it can get problamatic
Like fashion for sexes, medical, military, etc.
But, sometimes, just like why muslims seperate the males from females, they can get distracted with eachother
Which can be good and bad
Like what i'm saying in (almost) all my posts
We MUST find a middle ground
There is no extreme that's correct
For most things at least
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:14 pm
Valheita Now, define gender stereotypes. One could argue that it's a gender stereotype that males are better at spatial manipulation than females. On the other hand, it's very well shown in experimental tests. Much like males being on average stronger physically, and more prone to making rash decisions. It's well and good to say stereotypes are dislikable, but they can't be dismissed. Often they come from somewhere, and have very valid points. I'd say that it's perfectly reasonable. 3 months is a long time to have to pay someone and not get any work out of them. It's harsh, but it's a reality that not all businesses can afford to take that risk. In an ideal world, where everyone was intelligent and used protection, sure. It's unfair to get paid less than someone else because you're fertile. I'm saying that the fact that on average men are better at spacial manipulation than women shouldn't mean that a woman who's good at that kind of thing shouldn't get hired for a job that requires that kind of thinking. Stereotypes, proven or not, shouldn't be used as a basis for something like employment or pay. It should be decided on a case-by-case basis. What about women who aren't fertile? Would I have to get a hysterectomy before you would even think about hiring me? Or would the fact that I'm a woman be enough for you to turn me down?
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:21 pm
Little Miss Fortune I'm saying that the fact that on average men are better at spacial manipulation than women shouldn't mean that a woman who's good at that kind of thing shouldn't get hired for a job that requires that kind of thinking. Stereotypes, proven or not, shouldn't be used a basis for something like employment or pay. It should be decided on a case-by-case basis. What about women who aren't fertile? Would I have to get a hysterectomy before you would even think about hiring me? Or would the fact that I'm a woman be enough for you to turn me down? Depends on the job. As a generalisation, it should be case-by-case yes. It should be your skills and abilities that determine your pay and job opportunities. Not gender, race or anything like that. At the end of the day though, humans have evolved so that each gender has it's own little specialisations. Untrained workers will invariably only have that minor evolutionary difference to determine their skills. I'm still going to stick with it being males only in the military, my math teacher may have been an intolerant git, but he was right about that. Males do instinctively protect females. I never said anything about not hiring you. I was explaining why females get paid less on average. >.<;; It's an average thing.
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:25 pm
Valheita Depends on the job. As a generalisation, it should be case-by-case yes. It should be your skills and abilities that determine your pay and job opportunities. Not gender, race or anything like that. At the end of the day though, humans have evolved so that each gender has it's own little specialisations. Untrained workers will invariably only have that minor evolutionary difference to determine their skills. I'm still going to stick with it being males only in the military, my math teacher may have been an intolerant git, but he was right about that. Males do instinctively protect females. I never said anything about not hiring you. I was explaining why females get paid less on average. >.<;; It's an average thing. I guess I haven't lost all respect for you after all. =3 Sexism is one of the very few things that reeeeeally pisses me off. I'm usually pretty laid back, so... yeah. Sorry if I jumped down your throat, but your first post made me want to punch you in the face. <3
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:27 pm
Little Miss Fortune Valheita Depends on the job. As a generalisation, it should be case-by-case yes. It should be your skills and abilities that determine your pay and job opportunities. Not gender, race or anything like that. At the end of the day though, humans have evolved so that each gender has it's own little specialisations. Untrained workers will invariably only have that minor evolutionary difference to determine their skills. I'm still going to stick with it being males only in the military, my math teacher may have been an intolerant git, but he was right about that. Males do instinctively protect females. I never said anything about not hiring you. I was explaining why females get paid less on average. >.<;; It's an average thing. I guess I haven't lost all respect for you after all. =3 Sexism is one of the very few things that reeeeeally pisses me off. I'm usually pretty laid back, so... yeah. Sorry if I jumped down your throat, but your first post made me want to punch you in the face. <3 It was supposed to make you want to do that. It's a troll thread biggrin I'm a good troll, yes?
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:30 pm
Valheita Little Miss Fortune I guess I haven't lost all respect for you after all. =3 Sexism is one of the very few things that reeeeeally pisses me off. I'm usually pretty laid back, so... yeah. Sorry if I jumped down your throat, but your first post made me want to punch you in the face. <3 It was supposed to make you want to do that. It's a troll thread biggrin I'm a good troll, yes? You're lucky I waited for you to clarify that. I was thiiiiiis close to just flat out deciding that I hated you and would never talk to you. XD
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:33 pm
Little Miss Fortune Valheita Little Miss Fortune I guess I haven't lost all respect for you after all. =3 Sexism is one of the very few things that reeeeeally pisses me off. I'm usually pretty laid back, so... yeah. Sorry if I jumped down your throat, but your first post made me want to punch you in the face. <3 It was supposed to make you want to do that. It's a troll thread biggrin I'm a good troll, yes? You're lucky I waited for you to clarify that. I was thiiiiiis close to just flat out deciding that I hated you and would never talk to you. XD D:
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:34 pm
Valheita Little Miss Fortune stare You're lucky I waited for you to clarify that. I was thiiiiiis close to just flat out deciding that I hated you and would never talk to you. XD D: ily? heart
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:37 pm
Little Miss Fortune Valheita Little Miss Fortune stare You're lucky I waited for you to clarify that. I was thiiiiiis close to just flat out deciding that I hated you and would never talk to you. XD D: ily? heart I wouldn't want you to stop talking to me D: ily2. heart
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:41 pm
Valheita I wouldn't want you to stop talking to me D: ily2. heart Then I guess it's a good thing you aren't actually a sexist pig... Right? <.< =D heart
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