I have stated this before. They started wars between our clan and others for their amusement, they created many problems with the old leader aka they tired to kill her, and they created problems with in the clan. I remember because I have been here a while, most of the people here were not around when either of them were here, and even I know little most of the problems they caused started before even I joined the clan I was only around for most of the end of it, and as I have stated do not worry about them because from all knowledge neither of them are on gaia anymore. They were and still are tratitors of the clan even if they are gone.
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