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Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:15 pm
Dr John Smith Salmay Potential spoilers Okay, so at the end of season four Davros and the Daleks have this plan to blow up not just his universe, but all the universes. Nothing left. BOOM. Nothing left but them. In their space ship. Nobody to conquer. No place to go. WHAT IS THE POINT THERE???? Also, why would the Doctor offer a second chance to Davros but not the crazy Dalek? Crazy dude at least was remorseful. Well that's completely key to Davros's character. When we first meet Davros in Genesis of the Dahleks he asks the Doctor what he would do if he had a vial of a virus that would destroy all life and he makes a comment about how he would have all that power. Davros isn't a "take over the world" character like the master, he's a "create chaos and watch the world crumble" character. There is no "rational" point in destroying all things but he just wants to know that he can do it. Then why did the Doctor try to save him? Four didn't. Four nearly blew him up. Happily.
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:13 pm
Salmay Dr John Smith Salmay Potential spoilers Okay, so at the end of season four Davros and the Daleks have this plan to blow up not just his universe, but all the universes. Nothing left. BOOM. Nothing left but them. In their space ship. Nobody to conquer. No place to go. WHAT IS THE POINT THERE???? Also, why would the Doctor offer a second chance to Davros but not the crazy Dalek? Crazy dude at least was remorseful. Well that's completely key to Davros's character. When we first meet Davros in Genesis of the Dahleks he asks the Doctor what he would do if he had a vial of a virus that would destroy all life and he makes a comment about how he would have all that power. Davros isn't a "take over the world" character like the master, he's a "create chaos and watch the world crumble" character. There is no "rational" point in destroying all things but he just wants to know that he can do it. Then why did the Doctor try to save him? Four didn't. Four nearly blew him up. Happily. Thats a good point. I wonderd that 2. Does any 1 know?
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Fantasy_of_Strange_Things
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:58 pm
No idea. Although Ten seems to flip back and forth between "No Second Chances" and "Quick let me save you!" Not consistant.
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:22 am
Ten's been pretty consistently in "Let me save you!" mode since Last of the Time Lords, hasn't he?
Which would make a lot of sense. Harriet Jones was the second casualty of his "No second chances" policy, and the Saxon government was partly a consequence of her deposition.
If anything's going to teach you that "No second chances" doesn't work, it'd be seeing a Golden Age turn into an appocalypse because you didn't give someone a second chance.
Four, on the other hand...now there's inconsistency! Destiny of the Daleks has him swing about between risking everyone's life to avoid killing Davros at one extreme and attaching bombs to him on the other.
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Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 7:51 pm
What rather annoyed me was when he included Luke Rattigan with the various people who had sacrificed for the Doctor. Yes, Luke did die to save the world, but what did he really have to look forward to? He was responsible for a lot of deaths and had attempted to betray his entire race. How likely would it be that Luke would have gotten anything other than a bullet in his head?
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Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 4:03 am
Salmay What rather annoyed me was when he included Luke Rattigan with the various people who had sacrificed for the Doctor. Yes, Luke did die to save the world, but what did he really have to look forward to? He was responsible for a lot of deaths and had attempted to betray his entire race. How likely would it be that Luke would have gotten anything other than a bullet in his head? Uhhhh... he could have just let the Doctor die instead? That kid's a genius, he could have found a way to get on a spaceship or something. And probably really rich too, judging from the oddly familiar house/academy he had. At least buying his way to safety was an option.
I get what you're saying, at first it annoyed me too. However, Luke had two choices: 1) he could have done nothing, and the Doctor would have met his fate aboard a Sontaran ship, or 2) he could have done what he did, and switched places with the Doctor. That kind of decision is completely OOC for him, and therefore a much harder one to make, coupled with the fact that he *knew* one of them would die.
So I'd say he definitely sacrificed for the Doctor. It's a lot harder going into something knowing you'll die near-immediately than to go into something with no present threat, hoping it'll all work out in the end" (which is usually due to the Doctor, anyways).
Do I like the character? No, not really. He was a spoiled, selfish, brat. It's just that he shouldn't be kept off the list, IMHO.
...I just re-read your post and I probably went after the wrong thing, but I'm posting this anyways. xd
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 5:10 pm
ThPriestess My 5 cents on "the point of the Time War" (from a writer's perspective): 1. Wipe out scads of previous plot stuff so that new Welsh series could start fresh without having Time Lords getting involved from day one and confusing new fans. 2. Make the Doctor an endangered species of one, so he'll be extra lonely and emo, and all the girly fans will pity him and fall madly in love with him. Which begs the question: O.K., he's the last Time Lord, and all his family are gone, but hey, the Daleks keep starting from scratch, why doesn't he? Not like the universe isn't probably full of chicks who'd have his Time Babies . . . blaugh Except for that fact that Timelords are sterile, and he probably wouldn't want to deal with the death of another wife (assuming he had one between 8 and the end of the Time War).
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 5:50 pm
Samantha_Grey Except for that fact that Timelords are sterile Only according to the novels and, even then, only until the events of Lungbarrow. The Pythia's Curse is lifted in that novel (and some books like Cold Fusion hint that it might always just have been propaganda for the sake of social control) and so all Doctors from Lungbarrow on are sexual. Which'd be Eight, Nine and Ten. Which fits perfectly with what we've seen.
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:29 pm
Richard_Swift Samantha_Grey Except for that fact that Timelords are sterile Only according to the novels and, even then, only until the events of Lungbarrow. The Pythia's Curse is lifted in that novel (and some books like Cold Fusion hint that it might always just have been propaganda for the sake of social control) and so all Doctors from Lungbarrow on are sexual. Which'd be Eight, Nine and Ten. Which fits perfectly with what we've seen. I thought The Doctor said "I was a dad." to Rose. (Which made her jealous which annoyed me) and the first Doctor had a granddaughter? That implies at least one child.
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 2:16 pm
Salmay I thought The Doctor said "I was a dad." to Rose. (Which made her jealous which annoyed me) and the first Doctor had a granddaughter? That implies at least one child. Yep. A lot of book fans read that line from Fear Her as refering to THIS.And as for the grandchild, weeell... there's lots that could be said here. Unsuprisingly, lots of different sources have something to say about this. The version of events that Lungbarrow implies (through dreams, visions and puppet shows) is that the Doctor was around in the early days of Gallifrey, in the time before the Pythia's curse, where he was the mysterious figure history would recall as 'The Other'. It's at this time in his life that he fathered his family, Susan having been the last naturally born Gallifreyan. Things all got a bit dark and 'The Other' had to throw himself into the Looms, the breeding engines which now produced new Time Lords. There his biodata waited for ten million years until he was reborn as...the First Doctor. Then, when the First Doctor eventually fled Gallifrey with the Hand of Omega, the Hand allowed him to breach the prohibition on travelling into Gallifrey's past and reunited him with Susan, who immediately recognised him as her grandfather. How much he remembers of his life as 'The Other' is unclear, as only the Seventh Doctor ever really seemed in the know. Though there're lots of other things in the books that cast doubt on all this, and lots of things in Lungbarrow itself that deliberately cast doubt on this! The account can only be true if the Doctor was Loomed, and yet, Lungbarrow keeps stressing, he has something that other Gallifreyans of his generation just can't make sense of; a bellybutton.
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:47 pm
I've never seen anything before the ninth doctor.
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:19 pm
The Time War could have been written for several different reasons. Maybe they didn't want to write scripts for the Time Lords. Maybe they wanted to write an episode that involved a zoo or APES (Association for Protecting Endangered Species). Maybe they wanted to write the Doctor as just a little angrier.
Also, Daleks are like roaches. If you see one there are a hundred hiding in the walls. I think with Journey's End they finally fully fumigated the house with pros. Not the amateur guys who just like to play with chemicals.
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:04 am
ThPriestess My 5 cents on "the point of the Time War" (from a writer's perspective): 1. Wipe out scads of previous plot stuff so that new Welsh series could start fresh without having Time Lords getting involved from day one and confusing new fans. 2. Make the Doctor an endangered species of one, so he'll be extra lonely and emo, and all the girly fans will pity him and fall madly in love with him. Which begs the question: O.K., he's the last Time Lord, and all his family are gone, but hey, the Daleks keep starting from scratch, why doesn't he? Not like the universe isn't probably full of chicks who'd have his Time Babies . . . blaugh This is probably the best answer out there. However I would love to see more on Gallifrey. Perhaps a plot with another few surviving Time Lords, hidden somewhere in the universe.
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