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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:25 pm
I can honestly say ive never had a "sulking" fish, just so you know, and yes their growth is stunted, and i have always upgraded fast, so honestly my daniels were not in the 5 gal for long, i think it was less than a month they were there for an emergency i had a new fish who went cannibalist, the fishstore had him named wrong, he was to young and when he matured his stripes appeared and he ate almost everything that moved, i saved a few and they went into the 5 which they seemed fine with i noticed no change in behavior, i do do research but only on things i need, i know alot of things that are usful with keeping fish, and research ive learned alot with just trail and error, i know it sounds teribble but thats how i orginally started my research
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:28 pm
that is terrible since there are MOUNDS of information out there and a sulking fish is a fish that doesnt really move...like your danios
and you shouldnt have to upgrade...if you do the research like you should and read up on the fish you should have a set up that can hold that fish after it has reached its maximum size.
and you said you have been keeping fish forever? how old are you? just want to get a better idea in years ^^
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:34 pm
ok the daniels moved and the upgrade, was not due to the fish, one i wanted a bigger tank, and two i wanted larger fish, and three i wanted more then one tank because my cichlid has grown larger than i ever thought and larger then he should have so he had to move, so i needed the 10 gal for him, everything else went into the 40 it was very hectic. Ok i am 17 years and ever since i can remember ive always had fish so yeh and i have friends who have tanks for 30 plus years and they offer me a lot of advice, i guess you could call that research.
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:39 pm
that isnt research you have to look at MULTIPLE sources and compare them and make sure it isnt any old joe schmo bum giving bad advice and if you researched you would have known cichlids get pretty big and most are nasty
so i would just like to ask you to please give advice based on actual research? a lot of what you are saying isnt correct but the correct info is easily available online
and im 24 and have always had fish (even saltwater as a kid and a saltwater tank now) and all those years i have read books about all kinds of animals (including fish)
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:47 pm
ok well i am correct, because my tanks are perfect at this point, so idk why i would not be correct i use all the things ive stated and my tanks are perfect with no problems, i dont understand why i would be wrong, and trail and error is a form of research, and just so you know i am learned in many animals, in fact most of them being marine, i have been reading my entire life so , yeh i admit you are older so you may know more, but everything i had said in the forums have worked for me
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:52 pm
ok but it isnt based on research and may JUST WORK FOR YOU which is why you cant give advice based solely on that
if you all you can say is "it worked for me" you shouldnt really give that advice if you cant back it up in some other way by research.
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:01 pm
I can give advice, because experience is research, i have met other ppl who use the same techniques and they work for them
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:25 pm
experience is not research if you wanted to do research on your own you would use the whole scientific method but since most people just dont do that you look things up where people have already done that for you for research
your personal experiences could be PURE LUCK
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:32 am
I hope you don't mind if I mingle myself a bit in this discussion. Odester, what you must understand is that Skittles is applying the scientific definition of research, while you are using the common term for it. These texts would explain where she's comming from. Quote: DEFINITION OF RESEARCHTHE COMMON RESEARCH DEFINITION In the broadest sense of the word, the definition of research includes any gathering of data, information and facts for the advancement of knowledge. Reading a factual book of any sort is a kind of research. Surfing the internet or watching the news is also a type of research. Science does not use this word in the same way, preferring to restrict it to certain narrowly defined areas. The word ‘review’ is more often used to describe the learning process which is one of the underlying tenets of the rigid structures defining scientific research. THE SCIENTIFIC DEFINITION The strict definition of scientific research is performing a methodical study in order to prove a hypothesis or answer a specific question. Finding a definitive answer is the central goal of any experimental process. Research must be systematic and follow a series of steps and a rigid standard protocol. These rules are broadly similar but may vary slightly between the different fields of science. Scientific research must be organized and undergo planning, including performing literature reviews of past research and evaluating what questions need to be answered. Any type of ‘real’ research, whether scientific, economic or historical, requires some kind of interpretation and an opinion from the researcher. This opinion is the underlying principle, or question, that establishes the nature and type of experiment. The scientific definition of research generally states that a variable must be manipulated, although case studies and purely observational science do not always comply with this norm. Quote: WHAT IS RESEARCH?INTRODUCTION Research is an often-misused term, its usage in everyday language very different from the strict scientific meaning. In the field of science, it is important to move away from the looser meaning and use it only in its proper context. Scientific research adheres to a set of strict protocols and long established structures. Often, we will talk about conducting internet research or say that we are researching in the library. In everyday language, it is perfectly correct grammatically, but in science, it gives a misleading impression. The correct and most common term used in science is that we are conducting a literature review. WHAT IS RESEARCH? - THE GUIDELINES For a successful career in science, you must understand the methodology behind any research and be aware of the correct protocols. Science has developed these guidelines over many years as the benchmark for measuring the validity of the results obtained. Failure to follow the guidelines will prevent your findings from being accepted and taken seriously. These protocols can vary slightly between scientific disciplines, but all follow the same basic structure. STEPS OF THE SCIENTIFIC PROCESS SETTING A GOAL Research in all disciplines and subjects, not just science, must begin with a clearly defined goal. This usually, but not always, takes the form of a hypothesis. For example, an anthropological study may not have a specific hypothesis or principle, but does have a specific goal, in studying the culture of a certain people and trying to understand and interpret their behavior. The whole study is designed around this clearly defined goal, and it should address a unique issue, building upon previous research and scientifically accepted fundamentals. Whilst nothing in science can be regarded as truth, basic assumptions are made at all stages of the research, building upon widely accepted knowledge. INTERPRETATION OF THE RESULTS Research does require some interpretation and extrapolation of results. In scientific research, there is always some kind of connection between data (information gathered) and why the scientist think that the data looks as it does. Often the researcher looks at the data gathered, and then comes to a conclusion of why the data looks like it does. A history paper, for example, which just reorganizes facts and makes no commentary on the results, is not research but a review. If you think of it this way, somebody writing a school textbook is not performing research and is offering no new insights. They are merely documenting pre-existing data into a new format. If the same writer interjects their personal opinion and tries to prove or disprove a hypothesis, then they are moving into the area of genuine research. Science tends to use experimentation to study and interpret a specific hypothesis or question, allowing a gradual accumulation of knowledge that slowly becomes a basic assumption. REPLICATION AND GRADUAL ACCUMULATION For any study, there must be a clear procedure so that the experiment can be replicated and the results verified. Again, there is a bit of a grey area for observation-based research, as is found in anthropology, behavioral biology and social science, but they still fit most of the other criteria. Planning and designing the experimental method, is an important part of the project and should revolve around answering specific predictions and questions. This will allow an exact duplication and verification by independent researchers, ensuring that the results are accepted as real. Most scientific research looks at an area and breaks it down into easily tested pieces. The gradual experimentation upon these individual pieces will allow the larger questions to be approached and answered, breaking down a large and seemingly insurmountable problem, into manageable chunks. True research never gives a definitive answer but encourages more research in another direction. Even if a hypothesis is disproved, that will give an answer and generate new ideas, as it is refined and developed. Research is cyclical, with the results generated leading to new areas or a refinement of the original process. CONCLUSION - WHAT IS RESEARCH? The term, research, is much stricter in science than in everyday life. It revolves around using the scientific method to generate hypotheses and provide analyzable results. All scientific research has a goal and ultimate aim, repeated and refined experimentation gradually reaching an answer. These results are a way of gradually uncovering truths and finding out about the processes that drive the universe around us. Only by having a rigid structure to experimentation, can results be verified as acceptable contributions to science. Some other areas, such as history and economics, also perform true research, but tend to have their own structures in place for generating solid results. They also contribute to human knowledge but with different processes and systems. Though I think that aquaculture has the potential to do true scientific research, I think most knowledge in the hobby is gathered much in the same way that is done in areas like history, economics, sociology etc. Mostly because it is just too expensive to set up experiments with different species of fish and eliminating all secondairy factors (I hope I'm translating this concept right). So it's cheaper to just consult various books, websites and indeed other people. This is also exactly why a guild like this one exists. But, care must be taken not to fall for the many myths that exist in the hobby, or to consult outdated sources. Any book that is over 5 years old is outdated, and even with those under 5 years care must be taken, since they may be basing their information on outdated sources. Even information that other people give you by word of mouth may be outdated; they may have never taken the time to update themselves. The best way to do 'research' in this hobby is in my oppinion to gather as much information from any and all sources you can get your hands on and put it all on paper. Do not only pay attention to the factor you are looking for, but also other variables that may not seem likely to have an effect. It's also a good idea to keep a logbook in which you record your experiences as objectively as possible so you can consult it later. If a few months pass you may still remember things correctly, but when years pass it will be harder. When you have all factors on paper you can start comparing and looking for averages, and the highest frequencies. I actually also find trail and error to be a good way to gather information, as long as you are aware of all the factors and can 'measure' their effects adequately. But I also find that for the sake of the fish this method must be avoided as much as possibe. It is a last resort, and you must have backup plans in case of error. But also keep in mind that while a lot of information is based on lose research, there is also quite some information out there that is just pure undiscussable fact. Most of this is the information you will find on the chemistry (parameters, minerals, medicines etc) and biology (disseases etc) You must never take these for granted. Oh and Lizzy, of all things, you must know that age, though often a usefull indicator, isn't the best thing to base things on. Especially on the internet where we may not all be truthful. I also think that age only really counts when talking anout emotional maturity. Not when factoring in actual knowledge and scientific comprehension.
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:36 pm
I really enjoyed having snails and platties in my 5 gallon tank before I got a larger one. Platties are nice and colourful and you can easily have 4 or 5 medium sized ones with no problem if you do water changes monthly and have some agitation to aerate the water.
If you go with something like a platy, just remember that they can grow up to an inch and a half as adults, so 5 would eventually be a little overstocked. Snails don't seem to take up your tank space, so they are nice addition that doesn't keep you from adding more fish. Goldfish are pretty good because they can live with less than 1 gallon per inch and are hard to kill and don't require a heater. Goldfish may be basic, but I have 9-11 inches of goldfish in a 5 gallon tank with a filter and small snails at school. So far they have been in there for 4 weeks without having any signs of problems.
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:15 pm
wow thats too many goldfish for a 5 gallon tank >_<
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:25 pm
XD. Well. Thanks :3
I had white clouds in it before, i might just stick with them. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:33 am
imabadspeler Maybe O: I just have to wait... I have neon goldfish in my 5 gallon
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:02 pm
Woah, what's all this about goldfish in 5 gallons? I'm remembering a 20g minimum for most common goldfish species because they grow to large sizes.
@Lead Game Adviser: I've never heard of a neon goldfish. Is it some type of new fangled goldfish that is neon colored or did you mean neon tetra, or glofish?
Horror Inc.
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:26 am
-Vanilla- eXe
Woah, what's all this about goldfish in 5 gallons? I'm remembering a 20g minimum for most common goldfish species because they grow to large sizes.
@Lead Game Adviser: I've never heard of a neon goldfish. Is it some type of new fangled goldfish that is neon colored or did you mean neon tetra, or glofish?
Horror Inc.Alas, either Petco has named them incorrectly or i can not read lol i am dislexic sometimes, maybe i added a d and switched the L lol
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