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 Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:16 am
I know this isn't an answer to the question, but forgive me, as I don't live in the States and I usually don't pay much attention to politics. Could someone please explain Prop 8? I also want to ask if it's necessary to vote on it. Again, my sincere apologies for this unrelated "answer" from this ignorant questioner.
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:55 am
Kazydi I am a young Christian, and on election day, I voted Yes on 8. I swear, for the longest time, I was the only kid I knew who voted for that. Almost immediately, I was shunned by my peers, by my friends...even my old youth group looked down on me. They all voted No!! The only other person I know my age that voted Yes, is my girlfriend. I'm not kidding. My question is: Has anyone else here experienced something similar to this because you voted Yes (or No) on 8? Have you lost friends, and even family over something like this? I guess I just want to know that there are people like me out there. :/ I voted YES on 8. I don't care who knows it. If someone asked, I told them how I was voting and I told them WHY. The why was the most important part. Also, i used Sodom and Gamorrah as a reference, as well as different scripture, and then personal testimony. basically, we as Christians have to be persecuted. In India, they are tortured until they deny Christ. Here in America it's emotional and mental. We're persecuted until we accept the "norm".
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:37 am
Orizion I know this isn't an answer to the question, but forgive me, as I don't live in the States and I usually don't pay much attention to politics. Could someone please explain Prop 8? I also want to ask if it's necessary to vote on it. Again, my sincere apologies for this unrelated "answer" from this ignorant questioner. Prop 8 was a proposition in california that, if passed, would ban gay marriage and no, your question isn't stupid or ignorant.
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:55 am
Orizion I know this isn't an answer to the question, but forgive me, as I don't live in the States and I usually don't pay much attention to politics. Could someone please explain Prop 8? I also want to ask if it's necessary to vote on it. Again, my sincere apologies for this unrelated "answer" from this ignorant questioner. Nah, dude, if you don't know what it is then there is no problem in asking! blaugh Check the link for info: California Proposition 8 (200 cool
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:13 pm
KyosKitten Kazydi I am a young Christian, and on election day, I voted Yes on 8. I swear, for the longest time, I was the only kid I knew who voted for that. Almost immediately, I was shunned by my peers, by my friends...even my old youth group looked down on me. They all voted No!! The only other person I know my age that voted Yes, is my girlfriend. I'm not kidding. My question is: Has anyone else here experienced something similar to this because you voted Yes (or No) on 8? Have you lost friends, and even family over something like this? I guess I just want to know that there are people like me out there. :/ I voted YES on 8. I don't care who knows it. If someone asked, I told them how I was voting and I told them WHY. The why was the most important part. Also, i used Sodom and Gamorrah as a reference, as well as different scripture, and then personal testimony. basically, we as Christians have to be persecuted. In India, they are tortured until they deny Christ. Here in America it's emotional and mental. We're persecuted until we accept the "norm". Sodom and Gommorah is the WORST Argument against Homosexuality you can produce, its been disproven and reasond against so many times, its Embarrasing to even think about using it as a Defense. At least use something Like John instead -_- *hugs you* Poor thing.
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:27 pm
We Dont Negotiate KyosKitten Kazydi I am a young Christian, and on election day, I voted Yes on 8. I swear, for the longest time, I was the only kid I knew who voted for that. Almost immediately, I was shunned by my peers, by my friends...even my old youth group looked down on me. They all voted No!! The only other person I know my age that voted Yes, is my girlfriend. I'm not kidding. My question is: Has anyone else here experienced something similar to this because you voted Yes (or No) on 8? Have you lost friends, and even family over something like this? I guess I just want to know that there are people like me out there. :/ I voted YES on 8. I don't care who knows it. If someone asked, I told them how I was voting and I told them WHY. The why was the most important part. Also, i used Sodom and Gamorrah as a reference, as well as different scripture, and then personal testimony. basically, we as Christians have to be persecuted. In India, they are tortured until they deny Christ. Here in America it's emotional and mental. We're persecuted until we accept the "norm". Sodom and Gommorah is the WORST Argument against Homosexuality you can produce, its been disproven and reasond against so many times, its Embarrasing to even think about using it as a Defense. At least use something Like John instead -_- *hugs you* Poor thing. Of course John is better :] The book is all about love. I use that WAY more than Sodom and Gommorah, but I do use S&D in cases where people think homosexuality is okay. God loves us (as it says in John), but he hates our sin (thus, S&G).
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:37 am
Tarrou Yes. I admit my last post was perhaps unduly harsh, but I the sentiment behind it remains the same. Consider the ramifications of your vote, Kazydi: think about the people it hurt, and then ask yourself if it was worth it just to appease your theology. You were willing to write discrimination into your state constitution. What does that say about you? And for those of us committed to equality, how do you think you appear to us right now? I'm sorry that you felt qualified to pass judgment on your homosexual neighbors; for my part, I will try not to judge you too harshly, though right now I admit that it is difficult. I'm not sure what to feel right now. I'm in a Christian guild, I ask a simple question about prop 8 (that talks about about what happened to someone afterwards, not about the issue itself), and to be insulted and chastised for that, BY A MODERATOR WHO REPRESENTS THE ENTIRE GUILD, I'm darn near speechless. You should be ashamed of yourself Tarrou. Not for who voted what, but for the fact that I stood up for my beliefs, and someone in a position of leadership in this guild has told me that I'm not allowed to do that. I really think that's a darn shame. I don't care what anyone voted, but to put down a fellow believer and say half the things you said to me...it was really uncalled for, dude.
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:26 am
Kazydi Tarrou Yes. I admit my last post was perhaps unduly harsh, but I the sentiment behind it remains the same. Consider the ramifications of your vote, Kazydi: think about the people it hurt, and then ask yourself if it was worth it just to appease your theology. You were willing to write discrimination into your state constitution. What does that say about you? And for those of us committed to equality, how do you think you appear to us right now? I'm sorry that you felt qualified to pass judgment on your homosexual neighbors; for my part, I will try not to judge you too harshly, though right now I admit that it is difficult. I'm not sure what to feel right now. I'm in a Christian guild, I ask a simple question about prop 8 (that talks about about what happened to someone afterwards, not about the issue itself), and to be insulted and chastised for that, BY A MODERATOR WHO REPRESENTS THE ENTIRE GUILD, I'm darn near speechless. You should be ashamed of yourself Tarrou. Not for who voted what, but for the fact that I stood up for my beliefs, and someone in a position of leadership in this guild has told me that I'm not allowed to do that. I really think that's a darn shame. I don't care what anyone voted, but to put down a fellow believer and say half the things you said to me...it was really uncalled for, dude. Tarrou: it really was uncalled for and rude. Kazydi: half of that is what i said to you on the phone the other night...i don't know whether to feel flattered that you listen to me (your gf), or insulted because i said it first...
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:53 am
Kazydi I really think that's a darn shame. I don't care what anyone voted, but to put down a fellow believer and say half the things you said to me...it was really uncalled for, dude. Indeed, it was uncalled for, and I apologize. Let me be clear, though: I'm not retracting anything I said, merely admitting that I said it too harshly. I am not a Christian, as some people here assume, and I am adamantly opposed to your particular brand of Christianity. And frankly, your whinging about being treated unfairly by your friends after having voted to oppress a minority group was the height of (infuriating) irony. Seeing as I can no longer keep that antipathy separate from my duties as a mod, I've requested that my Crew status be revoked. Au revoir.
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:07 am
KyosKitten We Dont Negotiate KyosKitten Kazydi I am a young Christian, and on election day, I voted Yes on 8. I swear, for the longest time, I was the only kid I knew who voted for that. Almost immediately, I was shunned by my peers, by my friends...even my old youth group looked down on me. They all voted No!! The only other person I know my age that voted Yes, is my girlfriend. I'm not kidding. My question is: Has anyone else here experienced something similar to this because you voted Yes (or No) on 8? Have you lost friends, and even family over something like this? I guess I just want to know that there are people like me out there. :/ I voted YES on 8. I don't care who knows it. If someone asked, I told them how I was voting and I told them WHY. The why was the most important part. Also, i used Sodom and Gamorrah as a reference, as well as different scripture, and then personal testimony. basically, we as Christians have to be persecuted. In India, they are tortured until they deny Christ. Here in America it's emotional and mental. We're persecuted until we accept the "norm". Sodom and Gommorah is the WORST Argument against Homosexuality you can produce, its been disproven and reasond against so many times, its Embarrasing to even think about using it as a Defense. At least use something Like John instead -_- *hugs you* Poor thing. Of course John is better :] The book is all about love. I use that WAY more than Sodom and Gommorah, but I do use S&D in cases where people think homosexuality is okay. God loves us (as it says in John), but he hates our sin (thus, S&G). That's the problem Sodom and Gomorah werent destroyed because of Homosexuality, they were destroyed because of a whole Plethora of sins the final straw being the Inhospitallity to the Angels and forcing themselves upon them, "rape" in general, shown by the fact that they refused the offering of Lot's daughters, but wished to "take" the angels. Less Homosexual connotation more, rape and poor manners.
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:03 pm
Tarrou Kazydi I really think that's a darn shame. I don't care what anyone voted, but to put down a fellow believer and say half the things you said to me...it was really uncalled for, dude. Indeed, it was uncalled for, and I apologize. Let me be clear, though: I'm not retracting anything I said, merely admitting that I said it too harshly. I am not a Christian, as some people here assume, and I am adamantly opposed to your particular brand of Christianity. And frankly, your whinging about being treated unfairly by your friends after having voted to oppress a minority group was the height of (infuriating) irony. Seeing as I can no longer keep that antipathy separate from my duties as a mod, I've requested that my Crew status be revoked. Au revoir. so my post to you gets ignored? did i burn you that badly, or did you only want to address half of the issue?
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:45 pm
Gerbil_of_the_Vashness Tarrou Kazydi I really think that's a darn shame. I don't care what anyone voted, but to put down a fellow believer and say half the things you said to me...it was really uncalled for, dude. Indeed, it was uncalled for, and I apologize. Let me be clear, though: I'm not retracting anything I said, merely admitting that I said it too harshly. I am not a Christian, as some people here assume, and I am adamantly opposed to your particular brand of Christianity. And frankly, your whinging about being treated unfairly by your friends after having voted to oppress a minority group was the height of (infuriating) irony. Seeing as I can no longer keep that antipathy separate from my duties as a mod, I've requested that my Crew status be revoked. Au revoir. so my post to you gets ignored? did i burn you that badly, or did you only want to address half of the issue? Hey, hey. That doesn't do anything but fuel a fire, Gerbil. It's not needed right now.
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:01 pm
First off... Right: Noun a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way Marriage is not a RIGHT! It is a title. I know many heterosexual couples who are not married, but joined. Here is a post from another thread: Quote: Thing is, if you read what Paul says, then you will find that there WAS homosexuality in his time. It is even documented by non-biblical references. Same with Lot and the people of Sodom. The people of the town want to rape the male visitors of Lot (the angels) and not Lot's daughters. Homosexuality right there. The people of Biblical times were not as stupid as everyone makes them out to be. they knew things and believed things. In turn, I think WE are the stupid ones! We try to discredit people because of their religion and the Book they read. We deny things that are real. And now: Proposition 8, completely constitutional, has passed in the state of California. Marriage, is NOT a right, it is a privilege. To be with the person you want is cool. Live with them, get a civil union, whatever (heterosexual couples do it all the time). Just because a couple is not "married" does not mean that they are joined together for forever. There have been many civilizations where they did not marry, but rather lived together and had a family. Look at penguins. They never marry, but they have life partners. and even those life partners have "divorces" in a way. To define the title of marriage as between one man and one woman defines marriage, not love, or civil unions. Lets face it, this proposition also makes it so that polygamy is illegal. Note: I do NOT use the reference to Sodom as a "let's kill the homosexuals" argument, but a historical reference to what was said before that post... something about the writers of the Bible being ignorant and that you should not listen to a 2000 year (and older) document. To fully answer the question... I have many friends who believed that No was the correct vote, but obviously, the majority of those voting in California thought that Yes was correct. I am among the majority (for once!) in this matter. Further more, voting No is not oppression. Voting No would have been oppression for the people who have young children in school! Parents would not be allowed to take their children out of school, they would not be allowed to opt for non-homosexual education, they would have the life-stlye thrust upon them and THEY would be the oppressed ones! Homosexuals can still have a civil union. I have no thought against that. I know they are sinning, but I cannot stop them. All I can do is pray that they will see the error they are making and that they change. And yes, I do have homosexual friends. Almost all of them voted Yes on 8 for the mere reason of not oppressing children! To Tarrou: you are honorable and understand true leadership. Thank you.
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:02 pm
SloanSage First off... Right: Noun a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way Marriage is not a RIGHT! It is a title. I know many heterosexual couples who are not married, but joined. Here is a post from another thread: Quote: Thing is, if you read what Paul says, then you will find that there WAS homosexuality in his time. It is even documented by non-biblical references. Same with Lot and the people of Sodom. The people of the town want to rape the male visitors of Lot (the angels) and not Lot's daughters. Homosexuality right there. The people of Biblical times were not as stupid as everyone makes them out to be. they knew things and believed things. In turn, I think WE are the stupid ones! We try to discredit people because of their religion and the Book they read. We deny things that are real. And now: Proposition 8, completely constitutional, has passed in the state of California. Marriage, is NOT a right, it is a privilege. To be with the person you want is cool. Live with them, get a civil union, whatever (heterosexual couples do it all the time). Just because a couple is not "married" does not mean that they are joined together for forever. There have been many civilizations where they did not marry, but rather lived together and had a family. Look at penguins. They never marry, but they have life partners. and even those life partners have "divorces" in a way. To define the title of marriage as between one man and one woman defines marriage, not love, or civil unions. Lets face it, this proposition also makes it so that polygamy is illegal. Note: I do NOT use the reference to Sodom as a "let's kill the homosexuals" argument, but a historical reference to what was said before that post... something about the writers of the Bible being ignorant and that you should not listen to a 2000 year (and older) document. To fully answer the question... I have many friends who believed that No was the correct vote, but obviously, the majority of those voting in California thought that Yes was correct. I am among the majority (for once!) in this matter. Further more, voting No is not oppression. Voting No would have been oppression for the people who have young children in school! Parents would not be allowed to take their children out of school, they would not be allowed to opt for non-homosexual education, they would have the life-stlye thrust upon them and THEY would be the oppressed ones! Homosexuals can still have a civil union. I have no thought against that. I know they are sinning, but I cannot stop them. All I can do is pray that they will see the error they are making and that they change. And yes, I do have homosexual friends. Almost all of them voted Yes on 8 for the mere reason of not oppressing children! To Tarrou: you are honorable and understand true leadership. Thank you. What? Oppressing children? What kind of drugs are you on? Gay teachers aren't going to be teaching ABOUT homosexuality any more than a straight teacher will teach about heterosexuality. And so, by that logic, they're already MORE oppressed because they ONLY get the heterosexual viewpoint. Your argument is pure s**t. Sorry.
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:06 pm
divineseraph SloanSage First off... Right: Noun a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way Marriage is not a RIGHT! It is a title. I know many heterosexual couples who are not married, but joined. Here is a post from another thread: Quote: Thing is, if you read what Paul says, then you will find that there WAS homosexuality in his time. It is even documented by non-biblical references. Same with Lot and the people of Sodom. The people of the town want to rape the male visitors of Lot (the angels) and not Lot's daughters. Homosexuality right there. The people of Biblical times were not as stupid as everyone makes them out to be. they knew things and believed things. In turn, I think WE are the stupid ones! We try to discredit people because of their religion and the Book they read. We deny things that are real. And now: Proposition 8, completely constitutional, has passed in the state of California. Marriage, is NOT a right, it is a privilege. To be with the person you want is cool. Live with them, get a civil union, whatever (heterosexual couples do it all the time). Just because a couple is not "married" does not mean that they are joined together for forever. There have been many civilizations where they did not marry, but rather lived together and had a family. Look at penguins. They never marry, but they have life partners. and even those life partners have "divorces" in a way. To define the title of marriage as between one man and one woman defines marriage, not love, or civil unions. Lets face it, this proposition also makes it so that polygamy is illegal. Note: I do NOT use the reference to Sodom as a "let's kill the homosexuals" argument, but a historical reference to what was said before that post... something about the writers of the Bible being ignorant and that you should not listen to a 2000 year (and older) document. To fully answer the question... I have many friends who believed that No was the correct vote, but obviously, the majority of those voting in California thought that Yes was correct. I am among the majority (for once!) in this matter. Further more, voting No is not oppression. Voting No would have been oppression for the people who have young children in school! Parents would not be allowed to take their children out of school, they would not be allowed to opt for non-homosexual education, they would have the life-stlye thrust upon them and THEY would be the oppressed ones! Homosexuals can still have a civil union. I have no thought against that. I know they are sinning, but I cannot stop them. All I can do is pray that they will see the error they are making and that they change. And yes, I do have homosexual friends. Almost all of them voted Yes on 8 for the mere reason of not oppressing children! To Tarrou: you are honorable and understand true leadership. Thank you. What? Oppressing children? What kind of drugs are you on? Gay teachers aren't going to be teaching ABOUT homosexuality any more than a straight teacher will teach about heterosexuality. And so, by that logic, they're already MORE oppressed because they ONLY get the heterosexual viewpoint. Your argument is pure s**t. Sorry. Obviously you did not hear many of the things that would happen if Prop 8 did not pass. The children would be REQUIRED to learn about homosexuality and that it is perfectly "normal" at the age of SEVEN! For parents who do not wish for their children to be exposed to this, and have this method of thinking forced upon their children, would have NO legal recourse. What we are talking about is indoctrination. And news flash: this would be done by ALL teachers, homosexual AND heterosexual. Have you read the book "king and King"? I have. It is supposed to be a children's book. It teaches about homosexuality. This would have been (and is in some places) REQUIRED curriculum. Parents would be TOTALLY unable to pull their children out of school or opt for a different course. Parents have the RIGHT to make sure their children are protected. Homosexuals DO NOT have the right to indoctrinate and oppress children or their parents.
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