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 Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:22 pm
I consider this as, if the prophet had said that the church won't allow it, then thats the end of that. NO QUESTIONS asked. But no, the church is being split up because of it.
FOR GOODNESS SAKE!!! OUR LEADERS TOLD US IT IS NOT ALLOWED exclaim
If you think they are wrong... then... take it up with heavenly father.
for me, in my opinion, the only reasons why people are gay/lesbian/bi, is because people either told them they were, or they just THINK they are. Then, they keep on thinking it so what else is there to think about? they've already convinced themselves that they are, so they are. (Does that make any sense?) REMEMBER THIS IS MY OPINION
And just so you can know, I don't mind gays and lesbians. I've been friends with a few of them.
and sorry for the document sign on it of the post... redface
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:08 am
@Moraifa: I'm Mormon, I'm bi, and I live straight. In all honesty, I used to think like you. Then, I had my first crush on a girl early on in high school, and I could not deny it. I can't deny it now, when I see so many beautiful women on campus. I've never been in a relationship with a girl, but I've had a few (none of them were Mormon) try to start relationships when they found out that I was bisexual. You can say that fasting and praying will make it go away and will make it all better. I've tried. I've talked to a bishop who vilified me in interview for it, I've gone to counseling, etc. There hasn't been much that has helped. The influence of my friends over the last year has been a good force to keep me straight.
Personally, I plan to stay straight until I'm 30. If I'm heterosexually married by then, or in a hetero relationship by then, well, props to me. If not, and my sexual preference remains the same, I'm saying to hell with it.
Well, the church told us that it is not allowed. For the members, that's just a reaffirmation of truths already taught. That doesn't make it any less of a trial for the people struggling to stay straight.
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:01 pm
Amarikah @Moraifa: I'm Mormon, I'm bi, and I live straight. In all honesty, I used to think like you. Then, I had my first crush on a girl early on in high school, and I could not deny it. I can't deny it now, when I see so many beautiful women on campus. I've never been in a relationship with a girl, but I've had a few (none of them were Mormon) try to start relationships when they found out that I was bisexual. You can say that fasting and praying will make it go away and will make it all better. I've tried. I've talked to a bishop who vilified me in interview for it, I've gone to counseling, etc. There hasn't been much that has helped. The influence of my friends over the last year has been a good force to keep me straight. Personally, I plan to stay straight until I'm 30. If I'm heterosexually married by then, or in a hetero relationship by then, well, props to me. If not, and my sexual preference remains the same, I'm saying to hell with it. Well, the church told us that it is not allowed. For the members, that's just a reaffirmation of truths already taught. That doesn't make it any less of a trial for the people struggling to stay straight. what I meant by praying was for those who are against the church's decisions. Good luck to you by the way.
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:30 pm
I looked up what the current Prophet might have to say on this because I remembered my husband talking about this talk in General Conference Priesthood Meeting.
"My young friends, be strong. The philosophies of men surround us. The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance. Do not be deceived; behind that facade is heartache, unhappiness, and pain. You know what is right and what is wrong, and no disguise, however appealing, can change that. The character of transgression remains the same. If your so-called friends urge you to do anything you know to be wrong, you be the one to make a stand for right, even if you stand alone. Have the moral courage to be a light for others to follow. There is no friendship more valuable than your own clear conscience, your own moral cleanliness - and what a glorious feeling it is to know that you stand in your appointed place clean and with the confidence that you are worthy to do so."
It doesn't mean there will not be temptations or feelings that will be inappropriate. I have been married for 30 years to a wonderful man, but I am not dead, deaf, or blind. I still notice a nice looking young man and I know my husband notices nice looking young women. It is what you do with those feelings and if you allow yourself to dwell on them or just realize you are human and want more that a human experience - a truly Celestial Partnership that allows you to quickly recognize it as a temptation and desire to put it behind you and BE the eternal companion you will want to be in the next world and to have the eternal companion you will want to have!
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Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:58 pm
Amarikah @Moraifa: I'm Mormon, I'm bi, and I live straight. In all honesty, I used to think like you. Then, I had my first crush on a girl early on in high school, and I could not deny it. I can't deny it now, when I see so many beautiful women on campus. I've never been in a relationship with a girl, but I've had a few (none of them were Mormon) try to start relationships when they found out that I was bisexual. You can say that fasting and praying will make it go away and will make it all better. I've tried. I've talked to a bishop who vilified me in interview for it, I've gone to counseling, etc. There hasn't been much that has helped. The influence of my friends over the last year has been a good force to keep me straight. Personally, I plan to stay straight until I'm 30. If I'm heterosexually married by then, or in a hetero relationship by then, well, props to me. If not, and my sexual preference remains the same, I'm saying to hell with it. Well, the church told us that it is not allowed. For the members, that's just a reaffirmation of truths already taught. That doesn't make it any less of a trial for the people struggling to stay straight. Sorry, not really sure to make of your situation, but if it's any consolation I know what an... "addiction" I guess would be the right word is like. I would like to point out that you seem alright even with being Bi.
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:29 am
Personally I think proposition 8 is not constitutional, and anyone who is lds and voted for it is a hypocrite. The argument against gay marriage is religious. Gay people shouldn't be forced to abide by anyone else's religion. The reason Mormons specifically would be hypocrites is our own church history. We believe that the church was founded in the United States because there was freedom of religion. Freedom to believe what we wanted to believe without fear of other religions telling us we are wrong, and forcing us to abide by their religion. I think we have as much a right to make a proposition banning membership in the LDS church as we do of banning gay people from getting married.
And when you say that banning gay marriage was not limiting the rights of gays because they still have civil unions...that's just BS. How would you like it if you were told that you couldn't legally marry heterosexually? That instead you could have a civil union that gives you the rights without the title?
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:32 am
It has happened before - like plural marriage.
I think what is interesting is how often we try to tell Heavenly Father what His rules for happiness and success should be.
In Utah there has been 11 church houses vandalized - they speculate that it is in reprisal from the Prop. 8 thing in California. Not the first time that the church has been targeted with hate crimes(think Missouri, Navoou, New York, Kirtland, and even in Utah), and, sadly, probably won't be the last!
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm
Krego-sama Personally I think proposition 8 is not constitutional, and anyone who is lds and voted for it is a hypocrite. The argument against gay marriage is religious. Gay people shouldn't be forced to abide by anyone else's religion. The reason Mormons specifically would be hypocrites is our own church history. We believe that the church was founded in the United States because there was freedom of religion. Freedom to believe what we wanted to believe without fear of other religions telling us we are wrong, and forcing us to abide by their religion. I think we have as much a right to make a proposition banning membership in the LDS church as we do of banning gay people from getting married. And when you say that banning gay marriage was not limiting the rights of gays because they still have civil unions...that's just BS. How would you like it if you were told that you couldn't legally marry heterosexually? That instead you could have a civil union that gives you the rights without the title? The Problem with that concept is that the Human race would die off rather quickly then.
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:24 pm
Quote: The Problem with that concept is that the Human race would die off rather quickly then. You've clearly misunderstood something...
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:33 pm
drgnladyblue If nothing else this whole thing has divided those who truly KNOW the church is true and know that President Monson is the Lord's mouthpiece and trust him with that knowledge, from those who are faltering at the first test of true faith. Think that's a harsh accusation? Allow me to quote 1 Nephi 15:1-2: *cough* Excuse me? EXCUSE ME? No, I "faltered at the first test of faith" when I slept with the guy I was engaged to. Or, years before that when my family virtually disowned me over my choice in religion. But, no. This is not "faltering" because I know the church is not infallible. The prophet is not infallible. It is a church, containing the most truth of any church in the world, run by MEN. Humanity is imperfect. We were chased from state to state in large part by a group that wanted rid of Mormons because they were going to vote as a block and swing the slave vote. The other major part was that whole polygamy thing...you know, multiple wives? NON TRADITIONAL marriage? Way to protect traditional families, guys. You know we still seal multiple women to one man in the temple? You know that the people who don't believe in our G-d don't give a flying rats a** about what our diety or our prophet says? THEY just want the same chance at happiness straight people get. Prop 8 didn't just deny them rights, it TOOK THEM AWAY. We wouldn't have been giving them anything, just letting them live the way they had chosen to according to the laws of the land. Christ believed in loving thy neighbor as you love yourself. That doesn't sound like "separate but equal" to me. That sounds like equality. Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness sounds like equality. The gay community only cares about our definition of marriage because of the way it restricts them from demonstrating their love to each other. They don't care about our G-d, they don't care about our prophet and we have NO RIGHT TO FORCE THIS UPON THEM. Mormons just wanted to be left alone in the beginning- you don't have to agree with our crazy polygs, just leave us alone. Homosexual people just want to be left alone-you don't have to agree with our crazy sex habits, just leave us alone.
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:52 pm
Regardless. It was voted upon BY THE PEOPLE. It happened. But people don't like how it ended and are throwing a fit like little children because they don't think it's fair to live in a democracy where majority rules. Now it's being challenged AGAIN. Odds are the vote will turn out the same and people will still be unhappy with it.
(As a side note, discussions on both religion and politics are THE quickest way to ruin friendships. I suggest everyone be mature enough to post here and not get all riled up because the don't like the other side of the discussion.)
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:17 pm
I don't think it was the other side of the discussion that angered me so much as the way she said "it divides those with REEEEAL testimonies from all those stupid people who have never been tested before and can't handle it. If you think I'm being mean, it just means I'm right. Here, let me liken myself to Nephi for you...."
also known as "I'm better than you because I don't question."
I'd have let it alone if not for that- you guys see how rarely I post. But that was absolutely infuriating. The differing opinions didn't garner a response from me, the snide pridefulness did.
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:32 pm
Fixed it for you. You can go on living your life without having prideful people like me get in your way now.
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