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Changing what you're saying doesn't change what they already know it's about, and doesn't change what they will say or feel about men in the debate. If you say "People," they will still know that you're talking about women, and will still be of the opinion that men don't get to give their opinion when it comes to a woman's body.

Except here's the thing. It's not just the sick that are entitled to healthcare and are in need of healthcare. Healthy people need healthcare too. Everyone should have a yearly checkup, dental appointments, certain vaccines, etc. regardless of how healthy they are, and ideally doctors will see more healthy patients than unhealthy patients if only a fraction of the population is sick but the entire population receives the healthcare they need to stay healthy and catch things early.

But men just won't get abortions, except in rare cases where someone has had a sex change, and even then in order to get pregnant there needs to be effort so it probably won't happen. I must be twice as thick as you think because even I don't get what the point is. Which, yes, do it if you want, that's gravy, but I still don't understand.

Men have limited reproductive rights anyway. You can't steal their sperm and they can fight for the right to share custody of children. Other than that, they can't opt out of child support, they can't keep a child they want if a woman decides to get an abortion, so no, men are not endowed with similar reproductive rights, even if they still have autonomous bodily control. It's easily shot down anyway with, "Men don't get abortions, but when they do we'll support that too," because they will. And you can say, "And I'll oppose them too." And they'll say, "That's because you're oppressive." "But it's not just women." "That's just because you need to stay consistent, but you still really just want to control women." OR "You're morally opposed to transsexuals anyway and want to punish them with pregnancy because you think it'll teach them a lesson, and you still see them as women and refuse to accept their gender identity as their true genders."

I'm serious. If you can't get through to them about it not being a women's issue with you, using the word people and getting into a debate over it will not change a thing. The ones who think it's about controlling women are going to think that no matter what, because the bottom line is, abortion is always going to affect mostly women in terms of bodily autonomy (and their unborn children, but those aren't people, right?) and they won't care if you say "people" instead of "women." They don't want you to be anything other than a controlling, misogynist pig, and so they won't see you as anything else.

While it may be true, we want to express that it IS a humanitarian issue and not an anti-woman issue.

It is an attempt to keep them from going there. I have seen debates shift because I used the word women- They used the fact that I used the word "women" in the abortion debate to imply that I hated women, or was singling them out. Nothing will make them happy.

Well see I disagree with that, tremendously.

Everyone is entitled to Healthcare as a human being under the auspicious that all humans might need Healthcare. If you don't need it, that doesn't take away your right as a human to be treated when you're dying. That simply takes away your need for it.

But the privileges given to you for being Human are not revoked just because you happen to live more favorable circumstances.

Playing choicer for a second: I'd say that you too are entitled to abortion rights. But you can't get an abortion. It's just words spoken out loud, or typed on a screen, but it's still certifying you that right because you meet all the qualifications for the right, as a human being. It's just inapplicable to you, because you're male. But you're still a valuable autonomous, loved and cherished human being. Had you a v****a you actually COULD get an abortion.

I think you need to disconnect "need" from "civil right". Just because I do not need a civil right, EVER, doesn't meant i'm not entitled ot it.

I don't like quoting OPs but I'm going to quote some of it as reference.



Have you been debating with someone recently who actually said, "If men needed abortions you'd be all for it, you just hate women?" I'm just curious, because that seems to be the only thing that would prompt this.

Just because you don't need to use the right doesn't mean you're not entitled, that's true. But to a certain point, making things neutral to be politically correct just gets silly. Men don't get pregnant. They don't need abortions to rid themselves of evil alien terrorist pirates because evil alien terrorist pirates will never lay waste to a single male uterus (since they don't exist).

You say that the purpose of forcefully going gender neutral when you talk of who's getting an abortion you want to make it clear that you're not against abortion because it's a woman's thing. But changing a word means nothing. Sure, the truth is that if men could get pregnant and get abortions, you'd be against that too, but why should they believe that? Why is someone who thinks you're just a misogynist going to be convinced by changing one little word if just being the person you are isn't enough to convince them that this is about human rights to you, not about oppressing women?

The reason for not disconnecting need from civil right is because without men having the need for it, no matter what you say, there's no chance for you to put your money where your mouth is and so the worst will be assumed by people who will assume the worst. The people you're trying to convince are the ones who assume the worst. Given that, it's pointless to disconnect them if your desired reaction is realization that this isn't a woman's thing to you, because they won't believe you actually mean people. They will still think you mean women, and until males who are born men are able to get pregnant and have abortions, they will ALWAYS think you actually mean women but you're just saying people. It will always come back to you being a misogynist with those people.