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I suppose this is fair.

I may be a bit too exestential, but is mocking in the intent or behavior?

My apologizes as well. A new topic perhaps.

I suppose this does rest on what your idea of "Good Christian Movies" is- including which denominations are counted as Christian and to what ends the movies themselves are to reflect this.

Myself, I enjoy the Transcendentalistic Christian Elements of the Last Temptation. But then- I see a resonance between that and the Infancy Gospel of Thomas.

Dragonbait? By chance are you familiar with the scripture I mention- for if you are, I would love to hear your opinion on the illusions that are mirrored (or not sweatdrop ) between the two.

Edit: As for Left Behind I think there is room to debate that one as well, based on a critical evaluation of scripture.

Do not misunderstand- I think it should be on the list, but I think it also goes to show that the vast differences in understanding make the value of popular media more subjective than not.

Well, I've got a copy of the so-called "Lost Books of the Bible" floating about here someplace ... that, or my father borrowed it and is holding it for ransom. Either way, I've not read it in years, and I only watched Temptation once (when it first came out on home video), back when I was still a psych student -- though again, I have the original novel floating about here someplace. I'd have to rewatch and reread to compare properly; all I have right now is memories.

From what I recall, though, the "Infancy Gospel" -- if it's the one I'm thinking of -- is several steps beyond "obscure". Gnosticism is based on eternal mysteries, much like many eastern religions -- or, now that I think of it, some of the old occult wanna-bes like Crowley that started springing up in the late 1800s and some elements of the New Age movement over the past 30 years. And the "Infancy Gospel" reads, at some points, like a Buddhist koan ... run through a blender and twisted into a Mobius strip.

Now, assuming my memories on those to be accurate (which is assuming a lot), then ... I recall the movie's version of Jesus's 40 days and nights in the desert. He drew a circle on the ground (about 6-8 feet around, if I remember aright) and sat in it, occasionally hallucinating (was that lion supposed to be him, or Satan, or what?). Even then, I saw the similarity (I won't say "connection", as I don't know if it was intended) between what he was doing and certain modern pseudo-occult practices involving circles and purification ceremonies. So, yes, a bit of a parallel or two there.

And the Jesus of the movie was a bit ... well, how do I put this? ... I wouldn't follow him if he were trying to give me directions to the bathroom. The first time he heard someone else talking, he'd forget what he was doing. The Jesus of the movie was ... so amazingly uncertain of anything and everything, he changed his policy every time he spoke with someone. He was so wishy-washy, Charlie Brown would have told him to get a grip. After speaking with John the Baptist, he became firmer and fiercer; after Peter, he calmed down, and so forth. He was so heavily influenced by those around him that he couldn't decide or do anything for himself. I don't know any version of any semi-spiritual book that would describe Jesus in this way, except from people who freely admit that they don't believe in Jesus, people who want to ridicule him -- or maybe I should go back to Him. I'll certainly concede that the biblical Jesus was led by fate, but He went willingly, and not because humans confused Him.

Of course, keep in mind that these opinions are based on movies and books I've not touched in over a decade, so they may be a bit off. I'll freely admit to that.

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In answer to your question, Kenshin, I very much believe you should always test for yourself ... just because I remember D&D.

Okay, I realize nobody's going to understand that, so I'll explain. Back during the height of the anti-D&D craze in the mid-'80s, there were more than a few people claiming it had occultic or Satanic origins ... and a few also claimed you could learn to cast real-world magic through it. I had (I may still have) one book that claimed that if you looked at page 67 of the Dungeon Master's Guide, you'd find directions on summoning a real-world demon.

But ... I had the DMG. And back then, it wasn't a question of "which version"; all there was was AD&D, now called 1st Edition (2nd Ed. didn't come around until 1989). I looked at page 67, and you know what I found? A semi-scientific treatise on infravision (seeing with heat instead of light). Not directions on spellcasting.

At that time, I was ashamed for some of my fellow Christians. They had lied in the name of God. They had, to use the Old Testamant phrasing, "borne false witness" against Gygax and company, in the name of Jesus. As I recall, in the Bible, Jesus said people would say "Hey, look at all we did in Your Name!", and His only response would be "Um, do I know you? I don't think so. Buzz off."

I also remember some of the rumors about Temptation. One I heard the most frequently was about Jesus and a prostitute. Now, I watched the movie, and I never ... quite saw that. I did see Jesus waiting in line for his turn with said hooker, but when his turn came, all he did was chat with her.

And in fairness to my buddy BlckRobe, I must also mention Dogma. Miriam, you know Dogma, and you probably remember the 'Net rumors that were floating around about it and how blasphemous it was. You probably also know how many of those were just 'Net rumors, with no basis in fact. Oh, don't misunderstand, the movie Dogma does paint a picture of God as fallible, which is at odds with the Bible ... but it's designed (by a Catholic!) as a commentary on how the Catholic Church has painted God and itself (making it partly a social commentary), and to my mind it succeeds. But I'll let our Lymelady speak on that one. (Sorry, though, I'll never buy into Chris Rock as Rufus the 13th Apostle. No way. But Metatron was well cast.)

Lastly, let me mention myself. Top of this post, I was cutting into the Temptation movie. I said then, and repeat now, that my memories and understanding may be faulty. Pretend I didn't say that, though, and pretend I said something about the movie that's blatantly not in it (as opposed to just personal interpretations). That would make me a liar, right? Or maybe my memories were faulty, I got it scrambled with another movie I saw that weekend. Either way, I'd be guilty of spreading false information, whether intentionally or unintentionally. My little "hey, just my opinion" disclaimer saves my butt from being called a liar, and it saves me from looking like a fool if I'm wrong. Most people don't do that, and end up looking like liars or schmucks.

"Test all things", the Bible says, and I take that very much to heart. Always have, always will. In my opinion, calling Temptation a Christian movie is like calling A Knight's Tale a historical movie; it might have that basis, but it's only a basis. But I realize this is only my opinion, and I do definitely encourage others to examine for themselves.

How 'bout a list of movies under debate, movies that might be Christian or advocate Christian principles? I daresay there'd be a few for that list.

Ah, you say that now, but don't worry; you'll change your mind soon enough. All the ladies do.

"Dogma is Dog-" hang on, the sign's folded. Yeah, I remember that clip, and Smith talking about it.

Concerning the cult of Diana, all I'll say is that nobody ever approached me about joining Ms. Frost's group. The only Ms. Frost I had to deal with was my Algebra teacher, and she spent most of her days trying to figure out how to not deal with me. For dating myself, well ... everyone here knows I'm the resident old fart; nobody seems to care.

And I wouldn't dream of calling the Infancy Gospel a "new age gospel". First of all, the phrase sickens me. I was just pointing out the similarities between Gnosticism, the New Age Movement, and many other esoteric-occultic groups. I don't claim they're related, except ... if one considers Gnosticism to be blasphemous/heretical/whatever (which, for the sake of the argument in this sentence, I'll say), then they would all originate in the mind of Satan. Otherwise, no direct connection.

Okay, okay, I'll put down my copy of Conspiracy Theories for Dummies. Happy now? (I don't know what's more amusing; that it's a real book or that it's written by a Freemason. Feel free to giggle.)

Stigmata -- excellent example of a ... I'm going to say "semi-Christian movie", claiming some basis in Christianity, but the basis being rather shaky. Another example? Ben-Hur, to my mind.

Okay, this is the point where you regret running into me. 'Cause seriously, I'm not trying to be rude, but ... isn't that basically what you're doing, by wanting to bring in the extra-Biblical gospels and whatnot? Or am I misconstruing the heck out of your actions?

This may be a non-denominational Christian guild, but we are a Christian guild nonetheless. We are open to discuss things, but as a whole, we only accept the standard books as being part of the Word not any extra "gospels". If God wanted them there, they'd be in there; i.e. Gnostic gospel, book of Mormon, etc.

I think the list of movies should be just good Christian movies, whether by concept or writer intent (such as the case for Narnia); it's a fictional story written by a true believer.