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Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:14 am
CrazieDoily How is Eyes That Are Open offensive? I just like the Idea of thinking for oneself. No one should have that ability taken away from them. You just aren't being fair. Some people decide for themselves that they think these rules (for lack of a better word) are for the best. Not everyone blindly follows their religion, and simply because they don't think the same way as you doesn't mean they aren't independent thinkers. That's why I find it offensive.
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 7:00 pm
kingpinsqeezels And okay, you chose to open you're eyes, that's cool. If it makes you happy, then right on. However, that's kind of an offensive way to put it. I was just about to say this last night, but I was too tired to write a response. Saying your "eyes are open" is like saying that...everyone who does live as an observant Jew and follows God's law has their eyes closed.You assume that "opening your eyes" is superior to following certain guidelines laid out in the Torah, which is offensive to say the least. If you would have just said you were non-observant or you chose not to observe, it would have just been a statement, but the opening of your eyes part is passing judgement. sweatdrop
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:47 pm
I'm speaking in general terms. I do not think specifically about anything. I guess that's what I mean when I say my eyes are open. (Sorry for the confusion sweatdrop ) There are sooo many religions I just cannot choose one. I don't know how any other person that is religious chooses one religion over another. (Don't they all have the same General message?) I can make decisions though, but I don't choose "favourites." That's why I do not have many favourites (colour, band, etc) only things/people that I find most interesting (there's not a lot). Also, there are soooo many rules that each religion has and I can't handle that. I mean, society's rules are too much for me. I despise structure. Religion is not for everyone. (I am NOT a lost soul.) I also despise people that actually pray for me to "find Jesus." I mean, they're usually random people that DON"T know me as a Person.
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:06 am
I don't know if this will help, but with Judaism, while I was born and raised a Jew, I also made the conscious decision to keep practicing it. I believe in G-d, the Torah, and everything Judaism involves. It's not so much a matter of choosing one religion over the other- it's a matter of personal choice and faith.
For example (and I mean absolutely no offense to Christianity when I say this) I do not believe Jesus was the messiah. He was probably a decent enough guy, but tales of his miracles didn't come up for a hundred years or so after his death. (There's lots about the history of Christianity and religion in Richard Dawkin's book, The God Delusion, so if you want an idea of all the religions, read that. Might convince you to continue atheism, though)
Getting back on topic, I believe there is a G-d. What sort of being he/she/it is, I have absolutely no idea. I believe in evolution, anti- matter, and many scientific theories, but I still hold religious beliefs. It's not my "favorite" religion and it's not a matter of picking and choosing aspects from various religions, but more a independent, thought-out choice to believe how I do.
And before I stop rambling, rules do have a purpose. Most (I won't say all, especially with 3rd world countries in mind) rules have a legitimate, useful reason behind them, and I don't see why religion is any different. I'm not Orthodox, so I don't follow things like separating females while on their menstrual cycle, stoning people, or the view that homosexuals are evil and sinful. However, I follow the basic rules and principles of Judaism the best I can and anything else I know and believe in. I'm a Jew and I'm proud to be one.
I'm not going to "pray for your soul" or any of that kind of thing- if you don't want to be religious, that's perfectly fine. But it is possible to have a progressive view on the world and still have religious beliefs.
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:07 pm
darkphoenix1247 I don't know if this will help, but with Judaism, while I was born and raised a Jew, I also made the conscious decision to keep practicing it. I believe in G-d, the Torah, and everything Judaism involves. It's not so much a matter of choosing one religion over the other- it's a matter of personal choice and faith. Much like me, you had a choice. You see not everyone gets a choice. That's what bothers me. Children are pushed into something they probably do not want to do. Kids just want to play.
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:13 pm
But like alot of things, it is a parent's responsibility to raise a child. This not only includes making sure they are healthy physically but also morally. Kids may want to go outside and play, but a responsible parent doesn't just give a child what they WANT, but rather what they NEED. Plus, young religious children do go out and play. It isn't like their parents lock them in rooms and force them to study 24/7.
Also, people who were born Jews and raised in observant homes have a choice to not observe. Sure, deciding to go against your parents and childhood influences is hard, but it is possible. Being an observant Jew in today's society is also a choice (which is one of the reasons I don't like the whole Jews by Choice title converts take on sometimes), and I have seen children from strict religious backgrounds decide later to not practice. In the end, we do all get a choice. Parents can only make a decision for you for so long and try to lead you down the "right" path. Ultimately, you decide whether or not to take it.
Sorry for the odd rants. I do not mean to condescend. Just stating things as I see them...
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:55 am
darkphoenix1247 I'm not Orthodox, so I don't follow things like separating females while on their menstrual cycle, stoning people, or the view that homosexuals are evil and sinful. This is one of the things that frustrates a lot of the Orthodox that I know, including myself: the lack of information that non-Orthodox Jews have concerning Orthodoxy. 1. Separating menstruating females. Most of the time, you'll never know when an Orthodox woman is menstruating. We don't go to a hotel and live away from our families. We don't sleep in the garage, tool shed, guest house, back yard, car, or under a bridge. "Separation" means separating from one's husband, purely in terms of the sexual aspects of the marital relationship. We don't touch, even to hand one another objects, because we're meant to focus on the emotional and cerebral aspects of the relationship instead. It deepens the emotional bond, and the couple learn to communicate and express affection in non-physical ways. The constant flux of separation-reunion helps keep the marriage fresh -- every month, when the separation ends, it's just like a new honeymoon. Moreover, it helps a couple get used to expressing their love verbally and through acts of kindness, which is a good preparation for the time when a couple can't be near one another: one's out of town, or one's hospitalized (G*D forbid). Moreover, you'll never know when an Orthodox woman is separated, because an Orthodox woman knows how to be discreet. She doesn't go shouting to the rooftops, "I can't make love to my husband tonight! I'm on my period!" Modesty (tzniut) prevents it. The only way you could possibly guess is if a woman has her hands full, there's nowhere to set down her belongings while she tries to use her cellphone or zip up her coat, and her husband doesn't automatically reach out a hand to take something from her, and she doesn't ask. (Or then again, he could just be mentally zoned out, and not notice that she needs help; and she could just be the sort of person that doesn't ask for help.) 2. Stoning people. Honestly, when was the last time you saw anyone stoned as a matter of punishment? The Written Torah dictates that there are times when it should happen, but that is what makes the Oral Torah so essential: it limits those times to such a degree that it's almost never actually permitted to take place! This is one of the dangers of taking the Written Torah (letter of the law) and rejecting the Oral Torah (spirit of the law), in fact. In fact, in all of its modern history as a nation, Israel has only enacted the death penalty once. Once. And that was for a Nazi war criminal, guilty of committing atrocities personally upon many, many people, as well as encouraging, authorizing, and ordering others to commit even greater atrocities upon many others. 3. Thinking homosexuality is a sin. There are nearly a hundred verses in Torah which limit the sexual expression of heterosexuals -- verses that restrict it to marriage, verses that tell when a married couple may not approach each other sexually (various holidays, menstruation and the seven days following, several following after childbirth), verses that tell which heterosexuals are not permitted to marry or have relations with one another (various relatives, both by birth and by in-law status), and yes, there are parts of the Oral Torah which even detail certain sexual acts that are not permitted between heterosexuals. Does this make heterosexuality a sin? No, but it does make it limited. There is one verse in all of Torah which limits sexual expression of homosexuals: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman." Meaning, you shall not have face-to-face a**l-penetration intercourse between two men. Homosexual relationships have far less limits placed on them than heterosexual relationships; therefore, it would be difficult to think of homosexuality as a sin. That is, unless one's own personal tastes and opinions are already predisposed to think of it as such. It is sheer bigotry, with no basis in Torah.
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 7:41 am
Sorry; my mistake. sweatdrop
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 7:38 am
No sweat, darkphoenix, I wasn't upset with you at all. I am upset that there are so many Jews who have no idea what Judaism actually teaches, requires, forbids, encourages, or discourages.
If Jews themselves are not taking the time to learn about Judaism and teach it to their children and grandchildren, is it any wonder that others don't take the time to learn about Jews and Judaism? If Jews themselves have this many misconceptions about Jews and Judaism, is it any wonder that others have even more misconceptions about us? If Jews themselves are suspicious of Jewish teachings, consider them outdated or even offensive, is it any wonder that others are suspicious and disdainful of us, and prejudiced against us?
This is why I highly encourage all Jews -- whether they're Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, or unaffiliated -- to learn about traditional Judaism. If you (not "you" meaning darkphoenix, but "you" meaning "any person") don't know Jewish teachings and traditions, how can you know for sure whether Jewish teachings and traditions have relevance to your life? Find an Orthodox synagogue, learn about the Torah, Talmud, mitzvot... Only then will you be able to make an informed decision about whether these things are meaningful, relevant, and important for you. Now, I'm not saying that you have to learn about them and then live by them. That decision is up to you. You're all intelligent people, so you'll be making an intelligent decision. I just hope that you'll be making an informed intelligent decision.
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Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:26 am
ChiJadey But like alot of things, it is a parent's responsibility to raise a child. This not only includes making sure they are healthy physically but also morally. Kids may want to go outside and play, but a responsible parent doesn't just give a child what they WANT, but rather what they NEED. Plus, young religious children do go out and play. It isn't like their parents lock them in rooms and force them to study 24/7. Also, people who were born Jews and raised in observant homes have a choice to not observe. Sure, deciding to go against your parents and childhood influences is hard, but it is possible. Being an observant Jew in today's society is also a choice (which is one of the reasons I don't like the whole Jews by Choice title converts take on sometimes), and I have seen children from strict religious backgrounds decide later to not practice. In the end, we do all get a choice. Parents can only make a decision for you for so long and try to lead you down the "right" path. Ultimately, you decide whether or not to take it. Sorry for the odd rants. I do not mean to condescend. Just stating things as I see them... Yeah but there's Raising a child and there's Controlling a child. They're two different things. Parents can raise a child but are not supposed to control every single freaking aspect of their life from birth planning out what university the child would go to. Haven't you seen Hook? Where Peter explains to Tink that he ran away because his parents already planned out most of his life. That's what I'm trying to point out.
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:57 pm
CrazieDoily Parents can raise a child but are not supposed to control every single freaking aspect of their life from birth planning out what university the child would go to. You obviously never met my mother. To quote her. "The reason you were named that, is if you were ever made a Supreme Court Justice, the title would have a nice ring with your name." Life's full of disappointments, just ask my parents.
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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:00 am
LordNeuf CrazieDoily Parents can raise a child but are not supposed to control every single freaking aspect of their life from birth planning out what university the child would go to. You obviously never met my mother. To quote her. "The reason you were named that, is if you were ever made a Supreme Court Justice, the title would have a nice ring with your name." Life's full of disappointments, just ask my parents. *snickers* When I went to visit my family in Chicago, almost every last one of them asked the same question- "You're going to Northwestern to be a doctor, right?" The sad part is- that's my goal.
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:47 pm
LordNeuf You obviously never met my mother. To quote her. "The reason you were named that, is if you were ever made a Supreme Court Justice, the title would have a nice ring with your name." Life's full of disappointments, just ask my parents. If you want Neuf, I'll put in a good word for you with Barack. However, I think the minimum age to be a justice is like, 115. We might have to wait awhile.
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Oooo >.> Dude if anyone has distance issues with getting to an actual Jewish community. There are tons of lectures and stuff on Itunes, podcast section. Just search like author 'rabbi' then Category "Relgion & Spirtuality" Then push search. Be careful of the GENRE they are in. It will say Judaism, and not Christianity. If you desire to learn from a select sect of Judaism simply google the rabbi's name. You can shift through some sites and find some info on him. If you need help on determining what sect a rabbi may go with feel free to PM me. I'm pretty good at finding the info. smile
They all are free, at least the ones I've found. smile Also. You don't need an Ipod to get the podcasts. Just simple listen to them over your computer. smile
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:34 am
YvetteEmilieDupont Oooo >.> Dude if anyone has distance issues with getting to an actual Jewish community. There are tons of lectures and stuff on Itunes, podcast section. Just search like author 'rabbi' then Category "Relgion & Spirtuality" Then push search. Be careful of the GENRE they are in. It will say Judaism, and not Christianity. If you desire to learn from a select sect of Judaism simply google the rabbi's name. You can shift through some sites and find some info on him. If you need help on determining what sect a rabbi may go with feel free to PM me. I'm pretty good at finding the info. smile They all are free, at least the ones I've found. smile Also. You don't need an Ipod to get the podcasts. Just simple listen to them over your computer. smile Sounds good; thanks for the tip!
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