Welcome to Gaia! ::

Whoever said it comes before God?
I'm just saying it's all about personal tastes and music can be used as a form of self-expression or for harmless fun too. Just because I listen to other things besides Christian and Gospel does not make me any more or less spiritual than anyone else and it definitely does not make me subject to anybody else's judgment other than God's.


The technical dictionary definition for Christianity is Religion, not a cult.


Really?? So all this time I've been praying to no one! Wow. I guess you learn something new everyday.
Can you provide any proof for us? Perhaps just one piece of empirical evidence as to why neither God nor the devil exist?

True, but cults are more referring to religions that are just starting out.

And true, no human being can prove that God exists but we also can't prove that He doesn't.

While it does seem like Christianity has its problems, just like every other creed out there, more to the point, it's not so much the faith that's problematic, but many of the people. I don't know if you've ever heard of the book, "Lord, Save Us From Your Followers", but it's pretty much looking into why everyone feels so divided about the Gospel.

It's easy to generalize and say "Christians are this" or "Christianity is that", but it's a pretty big spectrum. Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Taoists, Atheists, Agnostics, etc. . . all of them are human. We're hypocrites, we're liars, we're weak by nature. Everyone makes mistakes. So how come only Christians are being judged here?

After reading Acts and Romans, I can safely say that the early church was indeed divided. But the only reason it was divided was because people were still too busy with their own agenda and their own selfish needs to look at the bigger picture. The picture of God's love, forgiveness, infinite patience and mercy. And the meaning of His sacrifice.

Isn't the government oppressive and burdensome? What about corporate America? I believe human beings in general are like this. These qualities are not just limited to the Christian faith.

The fact that we are not collectively certain like you said, it all comes down to differences of opinions. We're all different and not the same.
Besides, according to Proverbs 26:12: "Have you met a person who thinks he is wise? There is more hope for a fool than for him."

Everyone in their own opinion thinks they're right and there are very few of us willing to admit we're wrong. Arrogance... we're all guilty of it. And I'll be the first to admit it.

But: "For if anyone thinks he is something when he is really nothing, he is only fooling himself." - Galatians 6:3

And though (according to Psalms 82), we set ourselves up as "little gods", everyone will "die like mere men".

Yeah, I know what you mean.
Believe me, I used to feel the exact same way. Just a few months ago, I was also complaining about Christians. . . At times I still do!
Because I think that people should practice what they preach, but there are a lot of Christians out there who don't. That's why I ended up leaving so many churches. I became so angry and embittered that I was sure I couldn't find a single good Christian. I misjudged and I was proved wrong.

I DID find a few good Christians. Not perfect, but at least they've taught me to think twice before I judge someone because of what they believe.
Not only is it wrong, it makes no sense. Consider the following fallacy:
"Cars are red. Therefore, all cars are red."

See what I mean? It is the same when we say "All Christians etc. etc."
You have every right to feel the way you do, but don't put all of us in a box just because you've encountered a few idiots who are wrong. Make no mistake, a lot of people call themselves "Christian", but they are certainly not ambassadors, and all they do is disgrace the name of Jesus and embarrass themselves. Many of them are bound by 'religion', trapped in their own little world without actually knowing anything about God or love or acceptance.

I am not associated with anyone like that, and I'm not afraid to correct any "Christian" I know who acts or talks that way. I've even gotten in trouble with my family for speaking out against such intolerance and ignorance.


I don't mean anything bad by saying weak, but most people find it extremely hard to deny themselves. To deny their impulses and what they feel they want.
I know that it's human nature to lie, steal, lust, and covet, but my own conviction tells me that those things are not right. So I will not accept those things into my life and if I find myself ever wanting to sin or to hurt someone else for my own selfish satisfaction, I will do everything in my power to push it away. I just can't accept it.

I know how hard it can be, because I struggled with anger for many years. Ever since high school I have struggled and it's followed me even in my college years. Looking back, I remember the damage I have caused because of my problems with rage and I never want to deal with it again... so I've tried to purge those things. And God had to teach me patience the hard way.


I feel it's wrong to stifle or oppress anyone simply because of what they believe.
I know that a lot of people who call themselves Satanists don't actually worship the devil, but they believe in just having fun and doing what they want. But the hardcore satanists have been known to participate in blood drinking rituals and murders and stuff. Obviously, we don't condone any kind of crime, but I have seen a few preachers who were satanists-turned-priests.


Let's just for the sake of argument, say that you had a child of your own. That you loved that child and raised him or her until that child decides to turn its back on you and associate with racists or criminals or whatever.

How would that make you feel?

Humanity has done even worse. He creates Adam and Eve and gives them the simplest instructions and they can't even do that right! Not only do they disobey, but they try to lie about it and rationalize it instead of admitting their wrong.

I'm willing to bet that if they had owned up to what they did instead of trying to hide it, their punishment would not have been so harsh.
Later, Cain killed his brother and once again fails to own up to what he's done. Yet, in God's infinite mercy, He keeps Cain alive! Of course, Cain gets punished, but he's also under God's protection as long as he lives.

Generations upon generations pass, and people continue to do whatever they want instead of what's right. So he spares no one other than Lot's family, who also screw up later on.

More generations later, and Sodom and Gomorrah go on a man-raping-spree (people are mistaken that the cities were punished because they were gay, but their sins go much further than that). Their punishment is just what they deserved, and God has been more than patient for long enough.

He gave His only Son, whom He loved, so even people like that could be spared. The only requirement? To believe and confess.

I myself am privileged to know Him personally.

you said "If you don't follow the bible and it's teachings, then what are you from pagans? Don't they also read the bible and believe in God? The simply choose not to follow his teachings." they don't end of story.
Oh calling me dense dosen't make me uncomfortable, it pisses me off. Satan1:8 If a man smiteh you on the left cheek SMASH him on his right. so which denomination are you. i can respect a chritian who isn't afraid of pissing off a Satanist.
Already been a christian saw it for the load of bullshit it realy is and left on my own so save your salvation for someone who cares.

No i know plenty of Pagans who have read the bible or at least parts of it. I simply don't know one who believes in god. if you meant Heathen the whole time you'd be even less correct considering the deffinition of heahten is someone who does not believe in christianity. Or is that Heretic?

I'm not enraged at all i'm simply angry. also a little dissapointed that a guy wiht your mental faculties wich, since i'm dence, must me much greater than mine. would stoop to insult. i'm trying to help you out. chrisitans in this century have done nothing when provoked except to yell and make speeches and pray, wheras Satanists have been know to act very violently.

Are you starting your own church then? is that the reason behind the condecending teachings, the belittling sermons and the assault of anything anti-you? you'll make a great pastor someday man.

I was raised Catholic. i left when i decided that they were full of crap. then i floated from church to church for a long time hearing similar crap anded up in a non-denominational church called the vinyard. i liked it there it was nice. good music good people no one judging the goth kid in the back. but alas i was still a bad christian. heart was for jesus buy my loins were for the ladies my liver for thew booze and my lungs for smoke of the tobacco and marijuanna varieties. eventually i moved away and learned of satanism. i realized that the instincts i'd always felt bad for having (lust in particular) were natural and part of being human, wich would explain why i was never verry good at fighting them. so i officialy left the chuch. i chose to emprace rather than deny who i am. and i've been much better for it.

Heathen means non Christian (or non religious if used by a different religion). Perhaps you are getting confused at the way I use "dense", I use it because everything that anyone says to you, you either deny it or ignore it without thinking through and your responses show that when those situations come up (like the good of the Bible). 3rd paragraph, don't know what you are talking about. As for Catholicism, I agree that it is full of crap. Including Mormonism and other forms of Christianity that warp what has been said and what God wants. Adding rules and superstitions along with manipulated messages in the bible, the bible should never be changed, but people do it for their own gain and cloud their eyes of what's right. And in the process lose their walk with God. As far as your lifestyle goes, that's where your own will is involved and your want to fill yourself with meaning and not temporary fun. When you hit a down time one day, why don't you just read some things from the bible, straight up, without any rules or regulations from outside influences.

I have just one question for everyone.

When did this debate stop being about music and start on about why lazarus chose to be a satanist?

I'm not having a go or blaming anyone, but it just seems that we've floated a little off topic.

Um... -coughcough- I am not proud of it, but I do listen to some, well, used to be alot of, Dir en Grey (mainly their visual kei era stuff, like Cage and 304 Goushitsu). I saw them live in concert even (was over a year ago, yet still bragging xd ). Honestly, I think as long as you don't listen to filth, your ok. Besides, we are all in the world, yet do not need to be part of the world, right? I still love visual kei, and am still at heart a gothic loli, but I do not love the lyrics of some of the songs the bands I listen to play. We all have our first nature to go with these things and be easily tempted, but we also naturally have a deeper nature to go against them, right? Think about it. Animals have been around as long or longer than we have for example. Yet every human culture, going as far back as written history, seemed to have shared ideas about right and wrong, as well as groups of rebels seperate from that society. My theory is that some people forget this deeper nature, or simply choose pleasure over this. My point is, if a song goes with this theory, being apperaently against this deeper nature (by theory), it is probably not the best idea to listen to it. (And sorry, I know this might sound odd or even outrageous to some of you, yet all I wish to do is to post my point of view on this matter to contribute to the conversation ^^)