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Chieira
Captain

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:38 am


@_@ I don't really know much about that sort of thing. I do know that my roommate mentioned a while back that she'd read some article about how they'd successfully fertilized one egg with another using mice, meaning that technically in the future it might be possible for two women to have a baby together. I can't vouch for the credibility of the article, though, since I didn't see it myself. All I can really say is that my roommate isn't the easily fooled type, and she's also only a year away from finishing her degree in biology, so she wouldn't be as easy to fool with that sort of thing as, say, silly little English major me.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:23 pm


Tskyli
I have something that has been on my mind for days now.
could the possiblity of stem cell reaserch help gay couples?
i mean Stem cells can develop into different cell types. They may offer a renewable source of replacement cells. could they possibly find a way using D.N.A to possibly create human reproductive cells.

this could possibly help homosexuals and infertal people who cant produce reproductive cells.

what im getting at is it a possibillity that could they possibly use the D.N.A. of a man ( or an infertal woman) and use it in stem cell reaserch to create an egg with his ( or her ) D.N.A. , that way it could be a possibility of two men having a baby with their D.N.A and not have help from an egg doner ( this goes for infertal women, men would however need a surrogate mother). and vice versa for the possibility of making a sperm cell from female D.N.A


It depends on the cause of infertility.
If the cause is in the genes themselves, well too bad.
If it's not, or in the case of two men, there's a possibility, but they have to extract gametes directly from the ovaries/testicles, otherwise the chromosomes themselves won't allow it: their ends tend to diminish at each division, so if you take any other cell, the embryo will have the genes of a grown adult, therefore die soon. Just look at Dolly's life, you'll get my point.

2nd problem: Making an egg (with a donated egg) might not be very difficult, and what Chieira mentioned about two mice eggs fertilizing each other looks very credible. But the making of a male gamete requires other cells' proximity, and really looks difficult to do in vitro. Perhaps you can ask your friend about it Chieira.

3e problem: In the mice thing, I suspect they belonged to the same strain, therefore had the same genotype. I doubt it would work this well with two different genotypes. An egg already carries the mRNA of the mother, unlike the spermatozoon, and there is a period after fertilization when the little guy only relies on his mother's mRNAs. His own genes begin to be expressed later. During this critical period, I doubt that more versions of a gene than there should be will have no consequences on the development. Was there any information about it?

Concerning the stem cells, well I doubt that is a solution, for the same reason as above, about the mRNA stuff. A stem cell is already diploid and its cytoplasm doesn't carry the necessary molecules. Donated eggs are the way.

So if the problems I mentioned can be solved, well there's a possibility. Anyway there's still a possibility, even if it works, that the baby's health is weaker than it should be. So try to think about what I said about ethics a little. Would you take the risk to sacrifice the life of a human being? Wouldn't adoption be a safer solution for everyone? Try to imagine you were yourself created that way, wouldn't it feel like you're a guinea pig at the service of your parents' desires?

PS: Don't worry for the hoax, we all fell into that kind of trap ^^

Sisyphe


Chieira
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:58 am


Sisyphe
2nd problem: Making an egg (with a donated egg) might not be very difficult, and what Chieira mentioned about two mice eggs fertilizing each other looks very credible. But the making of a male gamete requires other cells' proximity, and really looks difficult to do in vitro. Perhaps you can ask your friend about it Chieira.


xD I'll try to remember to ask her for more details. She basically only told me that they'd fertilized one egg with another - she probably dumbed it down for me, which she's learned that she has to do in order for me to not just stare blankly at her. Me + science = whaaa? English and history are my things; math and science make my brain ache. Probably the reason I just tuned out most of everything else you typed sweatdrop
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:37 pm


Chieira
Sisyphe
2nd problem: Making an egg (with a donated egg) might not be very difficult, and what Chieira mentioned about two mice eggs fertilizing each other looks very credible. But the making of a male gamete requires other cells' proximity, and really looks difficult to do in vitro. Perhaps you can ask your friend about it Chieira.


xD I'll try to remember to ask her for more details. She basically only told me that they'd fertilized one egg with another - she probably dumbed it down for me, which she's learned that she has to do in order for me to not just stare blankly at her. Me + science = whaaa? English and history are my things; math and science make my brain ache. Probably the reason I just tuned out most of everything else you typed sweatdrop

Hey no problem xd I understand... I'm sorry I couldn't stop writing, to be honest I'm studying biology in college as well and I love what I do so... I got a little carried away ya know... sweatdrop and probably my english doesn't help.

But I'd be grateful if you asked her if the article was published somewhere on the Internet, I'd love to have a look. mrgreen

Sisyphe


Chieira
Captain

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:50 am


Sisyphe
Chieira
Sisyphe
2nd problem: Making an egg (with a donated egg) might not be very difficult, and what Chieira mentioned about two mice eggs fertilizing each other looks very credible. But the making of a male gamete requires other cells' proximity, and really looks difficult to do in vitro. Perhaps you can ask your friend about it Chieira.


xD I'll try to remember to ask her for more details. She basically only told me that they'd fertilized one egg with another - she probably dumbed it down for me, which she's learned that she has to do in order for me to not just stare blankly at her. Me + science = whaaa? English and history are my things; math and science make my brain ache. Probably the reason I just tuned out most of everything else you typed sweatdrop

Hey no problem xd I understand... I'm sorry I couldn't stop writing, to be honest I'm studying biology in college as well and I love what I do so... I got a little carried away ya know... sweatdrop and probably my english doesn't help.

But I'd be grateful if you asked her if the article was published somewhere on the Internet, I'd love to have a look. mrgreen


No, no, your English is fine! xD I'm just a science moron. And I always end up checking this guild late at night when she's already in bed... damn. I'll try to remember to ask her sometime tomorrow and then get back to you.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:39 pm


Chieira
Sisyphe
Chieira
Sisyphe
2nd problem: Making an egg (with a donated egg) might not be very difficult, and what Chieira mentioned about two mice eggs fertilizing each other looks very credible. But the making of a male gamete requires other cells' proximity, and really looks difficult to do in vitro. Perhaps you can ask your friend about it Chieira.


xD I'll try to remember to ask her for more details. She basically only told me that they'd fertilized one egg with another - she probably dumbed it down for me, which she's learned that she has to do in order for me to not just stare blankly at her. Me + science = whaaa? English and history are my things; math and science make my brain ache. Probably the reason I just tuned out most of everything else you typed sweatdrop

Hey no problem xd I understand... I'm sorry I couldn't stop writing, to be honest I'm studying biology in college as well and I love what I do so... I got a little carried away ya know... sweatdrop and probably my english doesn't help.

But I'd be grateful if you asked her if the article was published somewhere on the Internet, I'd love to have a look. mrgreen


No, no, your English is fine! xD I'm just a science moron. And I always end up checking this guild late at night when she's already in bed... damn. I'll try to remember to ask her sometime tomorrow and then get back to you.

Thanks a lot, but don't make a big deal out of it either ^^ if you can't there's no problem, it's just to satisfy my curiosity! (and you're not a moron, tell me about history and you'll see a real moron)

Sisyphe


Chieira
Captain

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:29 pm


Sisyphe
Chieira
Sisyphe
Chieira
Sisyphe
2nd problem: Making an egg (with a donated egg) might not be very difficult, and what Chieira mentioned about two mice eggs fertilizing each other looks very credible. But the making of a male gamete requires other cells' proximity, and really looks difficult to do in vitro. Perhaps you can ask your friend about it Chieira.


xD I'll try to remember to ask her for more details. She basically only told me that they'd fertilized one egg with another - she probably dumbed it down for me, which she's learned that she has to do in order for me to not just stare blankly at her. Me + science = whaaa? English and history are my things; math and science make my brain ache. Probably the reason I just tuned out most of everything else you typed sweatdrop

Hey no problem xd I understand... I'm sorry I couldn't stop writing, to be honest I'm studying biology in college as well and I love what I do so... I got a little carried away ya know... sweatdrop and probably my english doesn't help.

But I'd be grateful if you asked her if the article was published somewhere on the Internet, I'd love to have a look. mrgreen


No, no, your English is fine! xD I'm just a science moron. And I always end up checking this guild late at night when she's already in bed... damn. I'll try to remember to ask her sometime tomorrow and then get back to you.

Thanks a lot, but don't make a big deal out of it either ^^ if you can't there's no problem, it's just to satisfy my curiosity! (and you're not a moron, tell me about history and you'll see a real moron)


Found it! Sort of. I asked her this afternoon, and she said, "That was a long time ago, I don't remember. Just google it." Which I did, though I wasn't sure what to search for exactly. The best thing I could find was this: http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/long/2001/712/1 It looks like a very reliable source, and the article is titled "Egg fertilized without sperm." When it came up in my google search, the text under its link mentioned fertilizing one egg with another, using mice. I don't have a subscription to that site, though, so yeah. But you could try googling it, since my attempts were less than successful.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:14 am


Chieira
Sisyphe
Chieira
Sisyphe
Chieira
Sisyphe
2nd problem: Making an egg (with a donated egg) might not be very difficult, and what Chieira mentioned about two mice eggs fertilizing each other looks very credible. But the making of a male gamete requires other cells' proximity, and really looks difficult to do in vitro. Perhaps you can ask your friend about it Chieira.


xD I'll try to remember to ask her for more details. She basically only told me that they'd fertilized one egg with another - she probably dumbed it down for me, which she's learned that she has to do in order for me to not just stare blankly at her. Me + science = whaaa? English and history are my things; math and science make my brain ache. Probably the reason I just tuned out most of everything else you typed sweatdrop

Hey no problem xd I understand... I'm sorry I couldn't stop writing, to be honest I'm studying biology in college as well and I love what I do so... I got a little carried away ya know... sweatdrop and probably my english doesn't help.

But I'd be grateful if you asked her if the article was published somewhere on the Internet, I'd love to have a look. mrgreen


No, no, your English is fine! xD I'm just a science moron. And I always end up checking this guild late at night when she's already in bed... damn. I'll try to remember to ask her sometime tomorrow and then get back to you.

Thanks a lot, but don't make a big deal out of it either ^^ if you can't there's no problem, it's just to satisfy my curiosity! (and you're not a moron, tell me about history and you'll see a real moron)


Found it! Sort of. I asked her this afternoon, and she said, "That was a long time ago, I don't remember. Just google it." Which I did, though I wasn't sure what to search for exactly. The best thing I could find was this: http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/long/2001/712/1 It looks like a very reliable source, and the article is titled "Egg fertilized without sperm." When it came up in my google search, the text under its link mentioned fertilizing one egg with another, using mice. I don't have a subscription to that site, though, so yeah. But you could try googling it, since my attempts were less than successful.

I did ^^ and I found some other websites talking about the subject.

It was interesting to see how they did it, but there are still some information missing:

- They used 725 eggs, only 13 could reach the stage of blastocyst, at which they're supposed to implant in the uterus. However they didn't implant them in the uterus of a mouse so they don't even know if it can lead to a healthy offspring. What if they did?

- They say it's safer than cloning because two different genomes are used, like a natural impregnation. That just makes no sense. In cloning you just use a single cell, that has recieved genes from both parents, so was made with two different genomes. This has nothing to do with inbreeding.

- They don't say anything about the telomeres, which are the real problem of cloning. Telomeres are the chormosomes' ends, and they grow shorter in somatic cells (non-reproductive cells) as we grow old. In a way their size shows our age, and if they become too short the body dies (to make it simple). Remember Dolly, the cloned sheep? She had a short life and soon got sick because of that. Somatic cells were used to create her, therefore her genes were already as old as her "mothers'" when she was born.
To fertilize the mice egg, they used a somatic cell as well, so the problem of the telomeres is still here... What if they had used two eggs from two different mice instead?

They obviously have not finished the work, and there seems to be a lot to do. I guess the best we can do is wait and see if they eventually answer the remaining questions.

Thanks for asking your friend! 3nodding And I hope I didn't cause you a headache... sweatdrop just got carried away again... but I just had to write that somewhere!

Sisyphe


BumbleKnight

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:41 pm


wow all that sciency talk completely slipped my mind( eek ),but I still understood what you were saying. ( if my sentance made and sense at all.)

Also another reason I question if two of the same sex could have a baby together without the help from the opposite sex is because of the Whiptail lizard in southeastern Arizona.
The species is known very well for being a same sex species, the females do not need a male lizard to fertalize, but they do however have to have another of the same sex stimulate them. Thus getting the one female pregnate.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:11 am


Tskyli
wow all that sciency talk completely slipped my mind( eek ),but I still understood what you were saying. ( if my sentance made and sense at all.)

Also another reason I question if two of the same sex could have a baby together without the help from the opposite sex is because of the Whiptail lizard in southeastern Arizona.
The species is known very well for being a same sex species, the females do not need a male lizard to fertalize, but they do however have to have another of the same sex stimulate them. Thus getting the one female pregnate.

I didn't know about that lizard. Interesting...
But did you know that hens were capable of natural cloning? (lay eggs without fertilization that will lead to chicks that have the very same genotype as their mother) When I heard that I was like eek

Sisyphe


Orgo

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:31 am


There was a Venture Bros. episode like that. Doctor Venture had swallowed his twin brother before birth.
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