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 Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:23 pm
First off, I'm not a big fan of Elves. They tend to be foofied and use too much of base character that seem to be lifted out of another literary work. I would find returning much more to their mythological origins instead of spinning and inventing them and making them in many ways the "ideal human" to be much more tasteful.
Which brings me to my second point. I do thoroughly enjoy Tolkein's Elves, they are probably the only I like. And yes, one must look to the Silmarillion and not to The Lord of the Rings to understand their character. Besides, I find it a better read. And oh my goodness, how in love with the Fëanorians am I? Oh so much!
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Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:20 am
I didn't want my elves to be like Tolkien's. In my world, the elves have average heights to humans, and not all of them are regal and reserved like how I have seen Tolkien's elves to be. I would say that my elves are in most ways not that much different to humans. They may have a natural aptitude for magic, and I may add a few more traits to them in the future.
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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:09 pm
As you may have read, I've wanted to make my elves my own but I still think that I could make them more special even though I'm not sure how. I had the two races quarrel at a point in my world's history though. I also made them reconcile after a human, no less, made them realize how foolish their quarrel was.
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:58 am
Here's a question for everyone...
Why do elves have to be "more special" in any way? Why do they have to be better than humans?
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:18 pm
Here's my answer: I don't believe they always have to be better than us, it really depends on the writer and the kind of world he/she has developed. I'm thinking that usually, elves have some kind of edge against humans in a certain area. Why? I don't know exactly, maybe it's cuz they're supposed to have enhanced senses in some cases or even different body structures in others. So, maybe their muscles and bones have a different constitution than ours and it allows them to be more flexible, have more dexterity, more endurance or maybe even more brain power. I'm sure Tolkien was thinking something similar when he created his elves, you know? I mean, think about it! Any kind of human that had such an advantage over others, could believe him/herself to be superior and act arrogant most of the time. I think we've all seen this in one way or another, right? In my stories, only the elves that are kindred with plants have some kind of advantage over humans. The ones that are more kindred with animals are pretty much the same as the average human being. 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:31 pm
You should look up how the different races work in D&D. Humans have your straight up dice rolls for their stats and the rest each have different stat modifiers that get applied. For elves, they get an increase in dexterity and a decrease in constitution. For the layman, this means they're harder to hit, but can't really take being hit when an attack lands.
That's game statistics, though, and they don't always translate well to writing. Most writers for the Forgotten Realms (a world created to support D&D) don't even worry about that when they create their characters for their novels.
Berz.
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:31 am
It even happens in D&D then? Why SHOULD elves get those bonuses? They've been perceived as being quicker than humans, more dexterous than humans, either taller or naturally more lithe. They've basically been perceived as everything an author thinks the human race should be.
That's why I have my elves as being little different from us. There is one perception I've decided to keep, and that's them having a natural aptitude for magic. Humans can still have the same skill levels in magic as elves, but think of it more like how we learn about different subjects. Some of us have natural aptitudes towards learning more about our native languages and/or foreign languages, and others have a natural aptitude towards maths, etc etc...
For example, 75% of elves may learn magic very easily and quickly, and 35% of humans may learn magic very easily and quickly.
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:45 pm
Er... I think you misread that. In D&D, they have an advantage in dexterity and a disadvantage in constitution. They're more graceful and whatnot, but they're also more fragile. Humans have more endurance and fortitude than elves and if it came to straight up trading blows, the human would hold out longer and win every time.
Depending on the setting, too, there are also different variations of elves with different stat modifiers. In Forgotten Realms, there's at least one sub-race of elves that trades in the dexterity advantage for a constitution advantage and has some other trade as well.
Berz.
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:17 pm
Hm elves do seem to have quite a few steriotypical traits. This is most likely because they were created to be what people think the human race could and should be. Myslef I think I like some of those steriotypes, I like what elves have been perceived as over the years. 'Tis a strange world and things are balanced strangly, that is all I have to say for now.
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:08 am
Berzerker_prime Er... I think you misread that. In D&D, they have an advantage in dexterity and a disadvantage in constitution. They're more graceful and whatnot, but they're also more fragile. Humans have more endurance and fortitude than elves and if it came to straight up trading blows, the human would hold out longer and win every time. Depending on the setting, too, there are also different variations of elves with different stat modifiers. In Forgotten Realms, there's at least one sub-race of elves that trades in the dexterity advantage for a constitution advantage and has some other trade as well. Berz.
Regardless, elves are still usually given the tall, slender, agile and very lithe appearance, and humans are perceived usually as being of similar height but always having a thicker bone structure or being more stocky.
That simply isn't true, You can have humans with the same physical structure as an elf who are just as slender and agile.
If you take a look at the elf races in the Elder Scrolls world of Tamriel, there is a variety. Wood elves tend to be fairly short and sometimes on a slightly stocky side, and high elves tend to be taller and thinner. The Dunmer (dark elves) of Tamriel vary in size and their skin colour is between black, bluey-grey, grey and green. Each race still has its pros and cons of course, but the elves aren't perceived as being "high and mighty" like how Tolkien's come across (at least to me they do), and neither are they have half the stereotypes a lot of other elves do.
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:34 pm
I hear ya Mel! You should be pleased to know that in one of my stories, there's a special family of thieves (from a classy kind, not common pickpockets) that have potential to be even more agile and flexible as the most agile of my elves. The main character in my story couldn't match up the speed of an elf as he was growing up but, after a few years of practice, non of the elves could hope to win against him in a race among the treetops. mrgreen
I hope I can publish this story one day...
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:31 am
Mel, I cannot say how much I agree with your dislike of elves being the idealized humans.
Which brings me to the next question, why is there a need for elves in stories? Why cannot (or are not) they a different ethnicity or race of humans? Is that not also a possibility?
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:40 pm
Yeah, I suppose it is a possibility but maybe some stories need the grace of elves (either that or whatever makes them so appealing).
One thing though, has anyone ever heard of Elves crossbreeding with another race in particular?
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:19 pm
Well, mostly humans.
But there is a certain sub-branch of elves in Forgotten Realms that crossbred with demons, called the Fey'ri. And some D&D worlds have legends that say gnomes appeared through a series of couplings between elves and dwarves.
That's really all that's coming to mind right now.
Berz.
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:21 pm
Really? So Gnomes are actually...
Well, I suppose I can picture that better cuz I've heard of little people having spouses that are average in height, you know? So I guess Elves mating with Dwarves is possible. However, Elves mating with dragons? Impossible! I left a theory of my avatar's origins at the "Dragons" thread. 3nodding
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