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i belive that it shouldnt be as a birth control, but then again i belive that people can make mistakes. makes no sense huh xp

Because adversity builds charcter?

One-sides propoganda.

Nethilia, you support life but believe abortion should still be an option?

You're simply pro-choice then, though you'd rather they dont abort unless needed.

So, you're pro-choice. You may have a different beleif than others, but it's still pro-choice.

Otherwise, you'd still sound like an ignorant hypocrite. Not saying you are, saying you sound like one.

Just my two cents, hm?

There are many other reasons for being "emotionally unable to" be pregnant and carry to term. Granted rape is a pretty nasty one, but there are others, other that cause just as much grief; finances, future plans.

OK, I don't like doing this, but I'm going to give an example from personal experience.

I have two friends, Cassie and Niel. This time 9 months ago Cassie was studying for her Masters in Theology, Niel was studying a Bachelors degree in History.

7 months ago Cassie decides that she is in a good, steady and happy relationship. She wants to come off the Pill and get the British version of Norplant ((it's the same thing but 3 years and not 5)). You have to have a pregnancy test before they let you have one. Cassie learns she is 2 months pregnant. CAssie is Pro-Choice but would not choose an abortion unless absolutely neccessary.

Both her and Niel had to quit university ((Niel for the second time)), leave town to go to Cassie's mother's. Niel had just quit his job to study, so had no income anymore.

Niel still has no job, he is thinking of joining the army, just to support his girl and child ((due next week)). Cassie is a strong willed and strong minded young woman, with a really possitive outlook on everything, she's just about coping. She continued to work right up untill her final month of pregnancy, supporting Niel. How many other women could cope with that? Some? Yes. Many? Perhaps. All? No.

I couldn't, I know that for sure ((but then just the thought of having something growing inside of me that will want to one day come out between my legs make me fell sick)).

So, rape is not the only reason for emotional break downs during pregnancy.



Just adding the other side to the coin. Pro-Lifers only view the one side. Pro-Choice see both, and wish for the people in the situation to make the best judgement they can on what will happen in the immediate future - then make the choice themselves.

I know unplanned children can be loved, have good lives. Hell I was one ((well, kinda... Mother: "I'm on the Pill dear, nothing to worry about... *snicker*"

That does not mean they all will. Yes, we cannot guess the future, but sometimes we can make a damned good guess, and if that future seems bleak enough I beleive abortion is better. Ever read Prozac Nation? I think everyone should...

No Choicer worth thier salt would say "You should abort..." That's not choice.

It's not about happy and sad, that's far too Disney for real life. If you do not think that you can afford to feed and clothe a baby, and you decide it would be better for no person to ever have existed, then that is your perogative as the woman carrying the foetus.



No one exists at the point of abortion. No thoughts have occured, no actions have been taken, there is no person, only an empty shell awaiting the thoughts, memories and actions that make up a human person.

You know why you cannot know the future? Because it has not happened yet. You are not affecting anyone's future because the future has not been set down yet, there is nothing to change because you cannot change what does not exist. Combine that with the fact that no person even exists yet; voila, no persons future is being affected in such a way that anyone would ever know.

Gah, it's too hot for philosophical quantum theory...

Sad? I'd say more than sad. A starving, cold, naked child is going to be utterly miserable. A child who's mother has to leave it at home because she cannot afford child care on top of all the bills a child brings with it when she goes to work. Is not going to be sad. It's going to be one the most wretched sights you will ever see.



Why not? As I said, no person yet exists. You harming no one that is alive yet. Saying that a woman cannot have an abortion, to remove a shell from her body, that is not a person, is like saying a woman may not choose when to not have sex, because she is choosing not to start the processes which create a new body, which will one day be a person.



Not what I said. The foetus, the shell, exists. That is a complete given. But a person; nope.


Only matters person by person. Some people, such as myself, don't believe your ability to think judges your identity.

Not the ability to think ((which a foetus does not have anyway)). The actual thoughts, memories and actions. Identicle twins are two seperate people, despite having the same genetic code. Why are they different; because no two beings can exist in the same place at the same moment in time. All their experiences are different, thus making them individuals.


...depending on who you ask. If a a mother tells you her fetus is a person, are you allowed to tell her she's wrong, and be right about it? If you asked me, even if I was female, i'd say yes there is a person.

So now we are down to personal choice. Are you allowed to tell a woman her foetus is a person, if that is not what she believes?



Ah, you're playing with my flowery language. I don't know what came over me *pokes pretty fantasy book she is reading*.

You may not think it, but I ((and many others...don't make philosophy students your friends, they'll fry your brain)) do.

Also, if you want to take up this point. The foetus, then, is not an individual; then it must be part of the mother, it must also not be of consequence, as another can be created just as easily. You cannot recreate an individual, only in science fiction is this possible.